hydraulics problem

[Tazza]

Sorry Tazza but I thought you meant a click like for example when you activate the button for the lights in the dash to go on which would be a click after you activate the switch. now that I read your post again, I am inclined to say that there is a click when the switch is activated and doesn't feel smooth either way even though it is spring loaded. My Mistake. Thanks for your input. Does this mean that on the test will go up a certain amount and stay there?

Ah that is just a standard on off switch. When you test, it should give you close to 0 ohms when it's avtivated. The hardest bit will be finding the 3 wires that are for it.
I'd remove the plug and with a helper, start probing around with them pressing switches so you can hopefully identify and mark what connectors are for what switch. You will have a trigger, a thumb switch and generally one more for 2 speed or power bobtach. I can't remember what one is on what stick. So you should have about 7 or 8 wires in the plug. Hopefully it won't to too hard to work out what ones do what.
Sorry i can't be more help on this one. It seems like a real pain to work out. You know the coils and stems are good, the light on the dash for aux hydraulics comes on. Hopefully that means the control module is working. Hopefully it is just a switch, yet you have to buy the whole handle, not just a single switch if that is found to be the problem.

 

[little_fellow]

Ah that is just a standard on off switch. When you test, it should give you close to 0 ohms when it's avtivated. The hardest bit will be finding the 3 wires that are for it.
I'd remove the plug and with a helper, start probing around with them pressing switches so you can hopefully identify and mark what connectors are for what switch. You will have a trigger, a thumb switch and generally one more for 2 speed or power bobtach. I can't remember what one is on what stick. So you should have about 7 or 8 wires in the plug. Hopefully it won't to too hard to work out what ones do what.
Sorry i can't be more help on this one. It seems like a real pain to work out. You know the coils and stems are good, the light on the dash for aux hydraulics comes on. Hopefully that means the control module is working. Hopefully it is just a switch, yet you have to buy the whole handle, not just a single switch if that is found to be the problem.

I only have 5 wires going into the handle. One connector has 2 wires and the other has 3 wires. Therefore the 3 wired one I think you are saying is for the control in question and the 2 wired one must be for the continuous hydraulic flow. If I was to hook up something that requires continuous hydraulic flow ex.(snow blower)and say it did or did not work, would that indicate anything?

 

[Tazza]

I only have 5 wires going into the handle. One connector has 2 wires and the other has 3 wires. Therefore the 3 wired one I think you are saying is for the control in question and the 2 wired one must be for the continuous hydraulic flow. If I was to hook up something that requires continuous hydraulic flow ex.(snow blower)and say it did or did not work, would that indicate anything?

If you pressed the trigger and it did nothing it indicates that the switch or control module are not working. As you have replaced the coils and stems, you know they are right.

 

[little_fellow]

If you pressed the trigger and it did nothing it indicates that the switch or control module are not working. As you have replaced the coils and stems, you know they are right.

Thanks Tazza. I didn't do anything yet. Kind of building up courage and wisdom to do this. Trying not to screw-up like I did with the stems. Once I do find the three wires, how do I use the ohm meter. I assume that I keep the wires connected to the connector. I assume one wire is for the left side of the switch and the other two are for the ground and the other side of the switch. Should I pierce the outer cover of the wire to do the testing? What Kind of ohm reading will I get if it is faulty? If I do get the 0 ohm reading , what do I do next? Does it mean the switch is good and that the control module is bad? Is there a way to test it?

 

[Fishfiles]

Thanks Tazza. I didn't do anything yet. Kind of building up courage and wisdom to do this. Trying not to screw-up like I did with the stems. Once I do find the three wires, how do I use the ohm meter. I assume that I keep the wires connected to the connector. I assume one wire is for the left side of the switch and the other two are for the ground and the other side of the switch. Should I pierce the outer cover of the wire to do the testing? What Kind of ohm reading will I get if it is faulty? If I do get the 0 ohm reading , what do I do next? Does it mean the switch is good and that the control module is bad? Is there a way to test it?

to test voltage , ground or resistance on plugs , especially weather head type , I like to use very thin dental picks I got at a flea market , you can probe down into the plug thru the gasket around the wire without causing a lot of damage , wrap electrical tape or dip in plastic coating around the handle to prevent short out when you use multiple at a time , paper clips work just as well , I try not to probe the wires as it lets water in and it corrides , I seen some wires at the ignition switch of a Bobcat 442 today that was puff up really bad where some one had probe holes in the wire ----------- when you get that new aux controll switch , get a new rubber handle grip also they are $5

 

[Tazza]

to test voltage , ground or resistance on plugs , especially weather head type , I like to use very thin dental picks I got at a flea market , you can probe down into the plug thru the gasket around the wire without causing a lot of damage , wrap electrical tape or dip in plastic coating around the handle to prevent short out when you use multiple at a time , paper clips work just as well , I try not to probe the wires as it lets water in and it corrides , I seen some wires at the ignition switch of a Bobcat 442 today that was puff up really bad where some one had probe holes in the wire ----------- when you get that new aux controll switch , get a new rubber handle grip also they are $5

You are correct, the connections to the switch will connect the middle to the left or right depending on the direction it is moved.
To test, i'd disconnect the plug and probe it from there. I'm with Fishfiles to not pierce the wire as it will allow moisture in.
When testing the switch, with a meter you should get close to zero resistance when the switch is contacting. With the cable, it may be about one ohm, but still it should be a low number.
You did nothing wrong with the stems, they were tight, there wasn't a lot you could do to prevent damage.

 

[little_fellow]

You are correct, the connections to the switch will connect the middle to the left or right depending on the direction it is moved.
To test, i'd disconnect the plug and probe it from there. I'm with Fishfiles to not pierce the wire as it will allow moisture in.
When testing the switch, with a meter you should get close to zero resistance when the switch is contacting. With the cable, it may be about one ohm, but still it should be a low number.
You did nothing wrong with the stems, they were tight, there wasn't a lot you could do to prevent damage.

I did the ohm meter test and I am getting zero resistance when activating the switch. Does this mean the switch is good?

 

[Tazza]

I did the ohm meter test and I am getting zero resistance when activating the switch. Does this mean the switch is good?

By zero, you mean there is no reistance there? or very low resistance.
You should still see some resistance with a meter, the wires and switch contacts will lower the resistance, even just a little bit. It sounds like it is open circuit.
Get the meter, hold the probes together, what reading do you get? it's rare to get zero, the higher end ones you can zero though. The reading you get with the probes shorted out is the sort of value you are looking for when the switch is activated. It will be a little higher from the resistance in the wire.
It's sounding more and more like it is the switch in the handle. If you knew what one was what, you could start the machine and use a jumper wire to see if it activated the aux hydraulics. Then you know for sure it is the switch in the handle.

 

[little_fellow]

By zero, you mean there is no reistance there? or very low resistance.
You should still see some resistance with a meter, the wires and switch contacts will lower the resistance, even just a little bit. It sounds like it is open circuit.
Get the meter, hold the probes together, what reading do you get? it's rare to get zero, the higher end ones you can zero though. The reading you get with the probes shorted out is the sort of value you are looking for when the switch is activated. It will be a little higher from the resistance in the wire.
It's sounding more and more like it is the switch in the handle. If you knew what one was what, you could start the machine and use a jumper wire to see if it activated the aux hydraulics. Then you know for sure it is the switch in the handle.

I have the cheap type ohm meter with the needle instead of being digital. I have adjusted it to zero in when touching the two probes together and after doing that I checked the resistance in the switch on the hand control and I am getting pretty much a zero reading and if there is resistance from the wire, it is not high enough to notice. Are you saying that this is indicating a bad switch? If this is the case, I will attempt to do like you say with the jumper wire.

 

[Tazza]

I have the cheap type ohm meter with the needle instead of being digital. I have adjusted it to zero in when touching the two probes together and after doing that I checked the resistance in the switch on the hand control and I am getting pretty much a zero reading and if there is resistance from the wire, it is not high enough to notice. Are you saying that this is indicating a bad switch? If this is the case, I will attempt to do like you say with the jumper wire.

From what you describe, that sounds like the switch is working as it should.
It is looking more and more like the control module.......

 

[little_fellow]

From what you describe, that sounds like the switch is working as it should.
It is looking more and more like the control module.......

Is there a way to check the control module?

 

[little_fellow]

Is there a way to check the control module?

I have the aux control module mounted on the right side of the machine as viewed while standing in front of the machine with the cab up and right under the steering lever cowl. I should probably start by checking to make sure all the wiring is intact. I also have the other control module mounted under the cab near the back of the seat.

 

[Tazza]

I have the aux control module mounted on the right side of the machine as viewed while standing in front of the machine with the cab up and right under the steering lever cowl. I should probably start by checking to make sure all the wiring is intact. I also have the other control module mounted under the cab near the back of the seat.

The one under the cab behind the seat should be your main computer, the other is the aux control module. I don't know how to test it though. There will be quite a few connections.
Personally, i can't see if it is found to be bad and a new one is expensive, you could possible make something up to by-pass it. The coils are not rated for 12v, i know that much. But f you used a voltage regulator to bring it down, a few relays, you could rig it up to work
This one may be a trip to the stealer yet. Unless you can find someone close to you that you can swap controllers with and see if it works.
One other thing, did i ask if the light on the dash came on? If not, the switches do go bad. I had one that went bad, i took it apart and cleaned and replaced the switch that is a metal membrane. I wonder if it could be that simple? if it doesn't detect the switch is being pressed, the lights will not come on and will not activate the controls.

 

[little_fellow]

The one under the cab behind the seat should be your main computer, the other is the aux control module. I don't know how to test it though. There will be quite a few connections.
Personally, i can't see if it is found to be bad and a new one is expensive, you could possible make something up to by-pass it. The coils are not rated for 12v, i know that much. But f you used a voltage regulator to bring it down, a few relays, you could rig it up to work
This one may be a trip to the stealer yet. Unless you can find someone close to you that you can swap controllers with and see if it works.
One other thing, did i ask if the light on the dash came on? If not, the switches do go bad. I had one that went bad, i took it apart and cleaned and replaced the switch that is a metal membrane. I wonder if it could be that simple? if it doesn't detect the switch is being pressed, the lights will not come on and will not activate the controls.

Yes, the lights do come on when the button is activated.

 

[little_fellow]

Yes, the lights do come on when the button is activated.

I will double check the plug connector at the coil to make sure there is no power there. Should it be checked in voltage on the 10 volt scale on the voltage meter? That seems to be the lowest my multi-meter will measure in volts.

 

[Tazza]

I will double check the plug connector at the coil to make sure there is no power there. Should it be checked in voltage on the 10 volt scale on the voltage meter? That seems to be the lowest my multi-meter will measure in volts.

the lower the scale, the more accurate the reading will be if it's under 10v. Don't worry if you use a higher range. You just want to check if there is power getting to the coils or not

 

[little_fellow]

the lower the scale, the more accurate the reading will be if it's under 10v. Don't worry if you use a higher range. You just want to check if there is power getting to the coils or not

No power going to the coils and no power going to the hand control.

 

[Tazza]

No power going to the coils and no power going to the hand control.

It really does lean more and more towards the module then. Can you send me an e-mail so i can have a better look for a schematic? I'm sure i have one, i just need to find it (and be able to read it). It may not be for the same machine, but if the aux module is the same as what i think it is, it should be the same wiring.
Square box bolted to the right frame looking from the front of the machine, all filled with exoxy? I think you can see 2 relays in the goo, with a connector that goes to the BICS box and the aux coils.

 

[little_fellow]

It really does lean more and more towards the module then. Can you send me an e-mail so i can have a better look for a schematic? I'm sure i have one, i just need to find it (and be able to read it). It may not be for the same machine, but if the aux module is the same as what i think it is, it should be the same wiring.
Square box bolted to the right frame looking from the front of the machine, all filled with exoxy? I think you can see 2 relays in the goo, with a connector that goes to the BICS box and the aux coils.

I do have a service manual for this machine and I did find the proper wiring schematic for my electrical system. What would be your approach on this from here on? I'm thinking about tracing the wires back to the module, make sure they are all intact, then trace the wires coming into the module and check them out and then pin point power going in / going out at the module.

 

[Tazza]

I do have a service manual for this machine and I did find the proper wiring schematic for my electrical system. What would be your approach on this from here on? I'm thinking about tracing the wires back to the module, make sure they are all intact, then trace the wires coming into the module and check them out and then pin point power going in / going out at the module.

I'd also check power to the connectors at the module, if that is there, move on to the wires to the coils and switches on the sticks.
For the sticks and coils, i'd use the meter to check for resistance. As there will be little to no power at these points, resistance is what you want to check. I'd remove the connector and probe from connector to connector and see if the wires are all good.
It's a shame i'm so far away, i have a 763 with a controller that i need to get to work on, but it's not going to happen just yet. If you can find someone that would let you test controllers, that would be a real help.