Bobcat 463 / Lost Drive Control on one side

[SupermanSC]

Hi, I have a Bobcat 463 that I purchases used with about 950 hours on it. It's ran great for close to a year, however a few days ago it lost power on the left side wheels. Everything else (right side, and all bucket motions) seems fine. When pushing the left side drive lever forward or backwards, it makes a clicking noise that I initially thought was a broken chain. I first checked all the fluids, and found that the hydrostatic fluid wasn't even registering on the dip stick. I had checked this maybe 3 months ago and it was totally full. I topped it off and proceeded to try and locate the problem. I opened up the chain case, and everything looked perfect. Oil was clean, no debris on the bottom, etc. I started the unit again with the chain case opened up, and when pushing the left side driver lever forward, I can see the drive motor trying to turn the wheels, but it only turns 1/8" - 1/4" then "snaps" back like it can't turn. Next, I jacked the entire thing off the ground so no wheels were touching the ground and started it again. When pushing the left side drive lever forward, the wheels now spin as normal - although there's still a clicking sound, but I can't tell exactly where it's coming from. If I put any resistance on the wheels, they stop spinning and the clicking gets louder. With the chain case looking great, I moved on to the left side drive motor. From the sounds I was hearing, I was expecting to see the spline ground off or something, however I took it out and the spline and gear inside look fine. I haven't pulled the drive motor apart - I'd like to somehow insure that's what the problem is, and parts seem to be difficult to locate. The drive motor is made by Char-Lynn, Product number 105-1102-006. There's another number under that on the tag that says 9772 2ND. I'm not sure if it's normal or not, but I can't turn the spline on the disconnected drive motor using as much pressure as I can on it (by hand). Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I've found an entire new drive motor for about $500, although I was hoping to find a rebuild kit to keep the cost down. That said, I'm not 100% convinced the drive motor is the issue. Does this sound like it could be the pump if everything else in the bobcat works fine? -Mark

 

[OldMachinist]

The easiest way to determine if its the motor or a upstream problem is to swap the motors side to side and see if the problem follows the suspect motor.

 

[SupermanSC]

The easiest way to determine if its the motor or a upstream problem is to swap the motors side to side and see if the problem follows the suspect motor.

I took the other motor off the other side and found they are different motors. Here's what I have on each side: Left: Eaton/Char-Lynn - 105-1102-006 4" longer in length that the Eaton motor on the left side). I'm assuming it's a Char-Lynn motor as well (they look identical), probably just OEM'd for Bobcat (same motor, 5x the price). I've swapped the motors, and the issue followed the motor. The same clicking sound is now on the right-hand side and the right side will not move now. If it helps for anyone else going through this, when I took out the suspected bad motor, I drained the oil and tried turning the spline by hand and it didn't budge. I then wrapped it with a rubber mat and tried it with channel locks, and it turned, but needed a lot of force and was not smooth. The other motor (the good one) would turn freely once the oil was drained out of it. So... Now the question is - can I get parts for the Eaton/Char-Lynn drive motor (P/N 105-1102-006)? Is there anyone that rebuilds these for a decent price? I found an entire replacement motor on Loader Parts Source for $780 and at all-hydraulic.com they have them for $650, however I'm hoping there's a far more economical way of getting this fixed (replacing defective parts). -Mark

 

[Tazza]

I took the other motor off the other side and found they are different motors. Here's what I have on each side: Left: Eaton/Char-Lynn - 105-1102-006 4" longer in length that the Eaton motor on the left side). I'm assuming it's a Char-Lynn motor as well (they look identical), probably just OEM'd for Bobcat (same motor, 5x the price). I've swapped the motors, and the issue followed the motor. The same clicking sound is now on the right-hand side and the right side will not move now. If it helps for anyone else going through this, when I took out the suspected bad motor, I drained the oil and tried turning the spline by hand and it didn't budge. I then wrapped it with a rubber mat and tried it with channel locks, and it turned, but needed a lot of force and was not smooth. The other motor (the good one) would turn freely once the oil was drained out of it. So... Now the question is - can I get parts for the Eaton/Char-Lynn drive motor (P/N 105-1102-006)? Is there anyone that rebuilds these for a decent price? I found an entire replacement motor on Loader Parts Source for $780 and at all-hydraulic.com they have them for $650, however I'm hoping there's a far more economical way of getting this fixed (replacing defective parts). -Mark

The motors should be tight, the un-even feeling you can feel is the internals of the motor, all normal.
Before you go anything else, pull the motor down, see what let go causing the noise. They are pretty simple. Mark the outside of the motor so it goes back together the same way. There are multiple segments, this way they don't get mixed up.
Do all of this on a clean rag, give the motor a good clean before you start.

 

[SupermanSC]

The motors should be tight, the un-even feeling you can feel is the internals of the motor, all normal.
Before you go anything else, pull the motor down, see what let go causing the noise. They are pretty simple. Mark the outside of the motor so it goes back together the same way. There are multiple segments, this way they don't get mixed up.
Do all of this on a clean rag, give the motor a good clean before you start.

Ok, pulled it apart. You're right, very simple inside. There are fine metal shavings throughout the motor. Not a whole lot, but of course, any are bad. The bearing appears to be completely seized. The metal shavings are coming from the the connection between the internal splined drive and the Bearing and Shaft assembly. I can't get the splined drive out due to the damage in the bearing and shaft assembly, but I can look in there with a flashlight and tell the bearing and shaft assembly is wiped out - the teeth are totally ground off the bearing assembly. My guess is that the teeth ground off due to the bearing ceasing. I'm wondering why the bearing ceased to begin with though. My initial searches indicate I need a Shaft & Bearking Kit (P/N 21618-004) and the associated internal splined drive. My main question is whether this is the right motor to begin with for this Bobcat. This looks like it was replaced at some point in time as the Bobcat itself was manufactured in 2004, yet the date code on the motor that failed is 2005. The other drive motor, which looks to be factory original, is about 3/4" - 1" longer than the unit that failed, and is dated in 2004 so I assume it's original. From what I can tell on Eaton's site, the length has to do with the Geroler sizing and Displacement. Was this drive motor too small for the Bobcat? -Mark

 

[Tazza]

Ok, pulled it apart. You're right, very simple inside. There are fine metal shavings throughout the motor. Not a whole lot, but of course, any are bad. The bearing appears to be completely seized. The metal shavings are coming from the the connection between the internal splined drive and the Bearing and Shaft assembly. I can't get the splined drive out due to the damage in the bearing and shaft assembly, but I can look in there with a flashlight and tell the bearing and shaft assembly is wiped out - the teeth are totally ground off the bearing assembly. My guess is that the teeth ground off due to the bearing ceasing. I'm wondering why the bearing ceased to begin with though. My initial searches indicate I need a Shaft & Bearking Kit (P/N 21618-004) and the associated internal splined drive. My main question is whether this is the right motor to begin with for this Bobcat. This looks like it was replaced at some point in time as the Bobcat itself was manufactured in 2004, yet the date code on the motor that failed is 2005. The other drive motor, which looks to be factory original, is about 3/4" - 1" longer than the unit that failed, and is dated in 2004 so I assume it's original. From what I can tell on Eaton's site, the length has to do with the Geroler sizing and Displacement. Was this drive motor too small for the Bobcat? -Mark

I'd talk to loader parts source, they may have parts. You will need to make sure the CID is the same on each motor or it will pull to one side, been there before when i was supplied with an incorrect sized geroler assembily.

 

[SupermanSC]

I'd talk to loader parts source, they may have parts. You will need to make sure the CID is the same on each motor or it will pull to one side, been there before when i was supplied with an incorrect sized geroler assembily.

I spent a good 2-3 hours on the phone today and learned quite a bit... As I mentioned earlier, I had two different drive motors on my Bobcat - it was like this when I got it. The P/N that's supposed to be on both sides of the 463 is 167-0005-001. This is a 4000 Series Char-Lynn drive motor that has beefier guts than the 105-1102-006, which is a 2000 Series Char-Lynn motor. It specifically addresses the internal spline, which is what gave out on mine. Both work on the Bobcat 463, in fact the 105-1102-006 was apparently the stock motor on the 453 units. In the end, I ended up ordering another 105-1102-006 as they were readily available at just about any Eaton/Char Lynn distributor, and cost about $450 brand new. Parts to fix mine was about $440 from LPS. This one has been on here for close to 5 years without any issues. Being that I only use it now a couple times a month, I couldn't justify twice that for the unit from LPS, which is the 167-0005-001 motor. The real bummer in my case was that the 167-0005-001 motor is also available from any Eaton/Char-Lynn distributor for about $520, however it had an 8-12 week lead time, which was too long for me or I would have ordered it in a second. Long story short - if you're in a hurry, the 105-1102-006 units are stocked everywhere, and immediately available at a reasonable cost. If you can plan ahead or carry a spare, the 4000 Series motor can be ordered for not much more and resolves some of the issues people have experienced with the 2000 Series motors. I may end up ordering the 167-0005-001 unit anyway, and swap it out when it gets here and keep the other as a spare... -Mark

 

[Tazza]

I spent a good 2-3 hours on the phone today and learned quite a bit... As I mentioned earlier, I had two different drive motors on my Bobcat - it was like this when I got it. The P/N that's supposed to be on both sides of the 463 is 167-0005-001. This is a 4000 Series Char-Lynn drive motor that has beefier guts than the 105-1102-006, which is a 2000 Series Char-Lynn motor. It specifically addresses the internal spline, which is what gave out on mine. Both work on the Bobcat 463, in fact the 105-1102-006 was apparently the stock motor on the 453 units. In the end, I ended up ordering another 105-1102-006 as they were readily available at just about any Eaton/Char Lynn distributor, and cost about $450 brand new. Parts to fix mine was about $440 from LPS. This one has been on here for close to 5 years without any issues. Being that I only use it now a couple times a month, I couldn't justify twice that for the unit from LPS, which is the 167-0005-001 motor. The real bummer in my case was that the 167-0005-001 motor is also available from any Eaton/Char-Lynn distributor for about $520, however it had an 8-12 week lead time, which was too long for me or I would have ordered it in a second. Long story short - if you're in a hurry, the 105-1102-006 units are stocked everywhere, and immediately available at a reasonable cost. If you can plan ahead or carry a spare, the 4000 Series motor can be ordered for not much more and resolves some of the issues people have experienced with the 2000 Series motors. I may end up ordering the 167-0005-001 unit anyway, and swap it out when it gets here and keep the other as a spare... -Mark

Good to hear you learnt more about the motors, thanks for sharing too.
So the stock motor from Bobcat is the weaker one? very weird. At least they addressed the weak splines on the better model.