9 Ton Equipment Trailer

[Schifference]

The other day I bought a 1967 General 9 ton tri-axle equipment trailer. Somebody put diamond plate on the deck. It is in pretty good condition. I had thought a coat of paint and I could have a good all purpose trailer.
The problem is that when empty it has negative tongue weight. I am guessing by at least 400#. I came up with that number because when I went to hook it up, me and one other guy were standing on the tongue and couldn't get it to go down low enough to close the pintle.
I don't really want to add weight to the front because it is already a heavy trailer. It has (3) 6,000 pound axles. I was thinking of just removing the 2 front axle tires.
I guess another consideration is the height of the hitch on the tow vehicle was too low but, I know for sure the trailer is back heavy.
I would think that if it were loaded that could easily be rectified.
The thing is towing something with negative tongue weight is not a good thing and I am sure I will want to tow it empty when going to fetch something.
Any suggestions?

 

[foton]

If you could use a fuel tank on the job bolt one in the front and keep it half full at least, that is if space allows. I had a semi enclosed trailer like that and I keep 2-55 gal. drums of fuel in the front.

 

[Schifference]

If you could use a fuel tank on the job bolt one in the front and keep it half full at least, that is if space allows. I had a semi enclosed trailer like that and I keep 2-55 gal. drums of fuel in the front.

That is not a half bad idea. Might even be reasonable to just put a 55 gallon poly barrel filled with water up front. If I ever don't want or need the weight just drain it on the ground.
I am still thinking of removing the two tires from front most axle and putting them up front on the tongue. That would allow me to replace if needed, maybe cost less going thru tolls, and still give me a tandem 12,000 pounds GVW and a spare that I presently don't have.

 

[Jyuma1]

I would think moving one of the 3 axles forward might make the problem worse. The first thing I would check is to verify that the empty weight distribution is in fact negative tongue weight or if it is simply the combined fulcrum of the 3 axles is just too stiff to allow the tongue to go down far enough to engage the pintle.

I would think twice before changing the geometry of an empty trailer weight distribution. It won't always be empty, and forces can multiply rather quickly when towing a several thousand lb. load.

An engineer designed that trailer to have the axles in a certain location given the original deck material used, I would hesitate to arbitrarily alter that distribution. One would think that regardless of the deck material used, there would or should be an even empty weight distribution forward and aft of the axles.

Any chance of removing the diamond plate and replacing it with original deck material, possibly even substituting with 2x planking, which can easily be replaced when needed?

Good luck.

 

[Schifference]

I would think moving one of the 3 axles forward might make the problem worse. The first thing I would check is to verify that the empty weight distribution is in fact negative tongue weight or if it is simply the combined fulcrum of the 3 axles is just too stiff to allow the tongue to go down far enough to engage the pintle.

I would think twice before changing the geometry of an empty trailer weight distribution. It won't always be empty, and forces can multiply rather quickly when towing a several thousand lb. load.

An engineer designed that trailer to have the axles in a certain location given the original deck material used, I would hesitate to arbitrarily alter that distribution. One would think that regardless of the deck material used, there would or should be an even empty weight distribution forward and aft of the axles.

Any chance of removing the diamond plate and replacing it with original deck material, possibly even substituting with 2x planking, which can easily be replaced when needed?

Good luck.

Thanks for the input.

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying to just remove the two most forward tires which would put more weight on the tongue. Not removing or repositioning the axles.

 

[Jyuma1]

You are correct. I could have sworn I read that you wanted to move the forward axle further forward. I must be losing my mind.

 

[foton]

joe biden has the same problem! hahahahahaha

 

[MX727]

You should get real weights.

Jyuma is probably correct that the three axles are preventing it from going any lower. If it is truly negative, you should be able to lift the tongue without too much effort, but I suspect you can't.

Raise the pintle hitch on the truck, lower the lunnette ring on the trailer and go get some real weights.

 

[Schifference]

You should get real weights.

Jyuma is probably correct that the three axles are preventing it from going any lower. If it is truly negative, you should be able to lift the tongue without too much effort, but I suspect you can't.

Raise the pintle hitch on the truck, lower the lunnette ring on the trailer and go get some real weights.

Good advice. Presently since it is not safe to tow as is, I just removed front two tires. What a difference with weight. Before two people standing on tongue couldn't even push the front down. Now it has weight. Obviously I need to get weights. But it was totally unsafe before. At least as it is now I figure I can tow it around the block and see how it responds.

 

[mrbb]

with two 6k axles, your load carrying is NOT 12,000 lbs,. you need to subtract the weight of the trailer off the 12k , and if this trailer is as heavy as you say, lets call it 4k, could be more or less??but lets just call it 4 k for this!
that only leaves you with 8k of weight you can put on it,(to be legal ) so, eliminating that one axle is actually taking a bunch of carrying capacity off things on you!
so you will really need to get this trailer weighed to know what it can legally and safely carry with only tow axles if you plan to use with just 2 axles over 3!

so heads up on the math here with knowing weights, as it will matter more than just tongue weight to tow the trailer empty!

 

[Jyuma1]

joe biden has the same problem! hahahahahaha

Now you're scaring me. Hand me the Focus Factor.

 

[JakeK]

The proper way to deal with your weight balance problem is to relocate the axles back on the trailer. When I did mine, I cut all the mounts off, used jack stands on the frame to find the balance point with 200lbs weight on the tongue. That point became my centre axle mount. With axles welded back in place the trailer pulls perfectly when empty or loaded properly Without sacrificing load capacity.

 

[Schifference]

The proper way to deal with your weight balance problem is to relocate the axles back on the trailer. When I did mine, I cut all the mounts off, used jack stands on the frame to find the balance point with 200lbs weight on the tongue. That point became my centre axle mount. With axles welded back in place the trailer pulls perfectly when empty or loaded properly Without sacrificing load capacity.

Sound advice!
I haven't towed this since I brought it home. I am curious how it pulls with only 2 axles. I think in the next couple of days I will have the opportunity to pull it again. I am going to take it to a local transfer station and will get a combination weight of truck and trailer. So at least I will know what trailer weighs empty. I know it was scary towing it home the day I got it. I do like your concept for getting the proper axle placement.
I don't know if I am going to actually do it. Yesterday I purchased a 21K Lamar gooseneck dump triaxle.
Recently I got rid of a 7,000 pound auto trailer that I used extensively for 10 years. It was not heavy duty enough for things I was carrying. I also purchased a hydroseeder that came on an 18 foot Load Trail flatbed that has (2) 8,000# axles. It needs new wood floor because it was always getting wet but that trailer is stout and pulls like a dream. I plan to keep it. I am thinking of putting the hydro equipment on the 9 ton and position the weight so it has tongue weight. Furthermore I have a 30 foot deck over Gooseneck that is just too big for my needs that I am going to sell.
So once my grass is all done I will sell the 9 ton with hydroseeder and the 30 foot gooseneck leaving me with the pull behind 18' load trail, and the Lamar dump. Between those two trailers I can carry anything I own.
I do like that concept of how to balance the trailer. You taught me something valuable. I still might do that! I want to know what that trailer weighs as it sits. That trailer is not pretty today. I plan to hit it with the pressure washer and zero degree rotating nozzle and roll a fresh coat of paint on it. The more I think about it, I think repositioning the axles per your recommendation is the way to go. I can't believe it would take too long. The smart idea would be to precisely mark both sides before cutting away, Find where the center goes and use scribed marks to reposition

***Valuable Information @JakeK. Thanks!***

 

[ddbackhoe]

Good advice. Presently since it is not safe to tow as is, I just removed front two tires. What a difference with weight. Before two people standing on tongue couldn't even push the front down. Now it has weight. Obviously I need to get weights. But it was totally unsafe before. At least as it is now I figure I can tow it around the block and see how it responds.

Im betting your hitch is too low. With the trailer on flat ground, place a 4 or 6 foot level on it then measure the pintle height. By dropping the front axle tires, you will most likely create a 2 much tongue weight when loading trailer issue.

 

[Schifference]

Im betting your hitch is too low. With the trailer on flat ground, place a 4 or 6 foot level on it then measure the pintle height. By dropping the front axle tires, you will most likely create a 2 much tongue weight when loading trailer issue.

Definitely a consideration! As mentioned only towed it once to get it home and it was scary. I bet you are correct with the height. I hooked it to a half ton Yukon. I guess the real question will be if I get it on level ground and see if it teeters and tongue is up in the air. When I took it off the Yukon I had to jack the rear up to get it off.

I guess a crude calculation would be to simply measure from ground to place on trailer at axle and then measure from ground to pintle hitch on truck. Should be able to see if truck is too low. My guess is truck is too low.

Great advice here and Thanks to all that are contributing.

Not towing safe is dangerous!

 

[Schifference]

Definitely an issue with height of Pintle. I tried to attach with front wheels removed and front brake drums would probably drag on the ground. I leveled the trailer pretty close by tape measure and when level the pintle would need to be about 4 inches higher than my Yukon. Probably not worth the effort or time to try to adapt. I don't have an adjustable pintle and don't want to spend the money. My guess is they had that set up to be hauled by a tall dump truck. I am going to clean it, paint it, and sell it.

 

[mrbb]

you do know that a GMC Yukon or even a GMC yukon XL is not designed to tow over 8400 or so even in its MAX factory tow set up< so, sticking a 9 ton trailer behind it, maybe isn't the best plan here all together, and I DON"T mean to sound like I am bashing you, as I am not, I am just adding actual facts ,
about a yukon/xl! and there towing ratings!
I am gathering you have other vehicles maybe you tow past 8400-8500 lbs with, ( or I am guessing and hoping ) that are more suited for the task your looking to do! and keep in mind that back in the 60's when this trailer was MADE, tow ratings on vehicles were way lighter than they are today, so this trailer was designed most likely to be towed with a rather large sized tow vehicle, and not a 1/2 ton truck , or even a 3/4 ton truck of this era,
not even sure if it was designed to be behind a 1 ton duelly of that era to be honest!
which would further also explain why it maybe need to be behind a vehicle with a much higher hitch !

 

[Schifference]

you do know that a GMC Yukon or even a GMC yukon XL is not designed to tow over 8400 or so even in its MAX factory tow set up< so, sticking a 9 ton trailer behind it, maybe isn't the best plan here all together, and I DON"T mean to sound like I am bashing you, as I am not, I am just adding actual facts ,
about a yukon/xl! and there towing ratings!
I am gathering you have other vehicles maybe you tow past 8400-8500 lbs with, ( or I am guessing and hoping ) that are more suited for the task your looking to do! and keep in mind that back in the 60's when this trailer was MADE, tow ratings on vehicles were way lighter than they are today, so this trailer was designed most likely to be towed with a rather large sized tow vehicle, and not a 1/2 ton truck , or even a 3/4 ton truck of this era,
not even sure if it was designed to be behind a 1 ton duelly of that era to be honest!
which would further also explain why it maybe need to be behind a vehicle with a much higher hitch !

I have a Ford F450. The Yukon was only used to tow the trailer home. However, the 450 receiver is pretty low also so it would also need a height adjustment. As mentioned I will probably sell the trailer because I have several others.

 

[Jyuma1]

Sound advice!
I haven't towed this since I brought it home. I am curious how it pulls with only 2 axles. I think in the next couple of days I will have the opportunity to pull it again. I am going to take it to a local transfer station and will get a combination weight of truck and trailer. So at least I will know what trailer weighs empty. I know it was scary towing it home the day I got it. I do like your concept for getting the proper axle placement.
I don't know if I am going to actually do it. Yesterday I purchased a 21K Lamar gooseneck dump triaxle.
Recently I got rid of a 7,000 pound auto trailer that I used extensively for 10 years. It was not heavy duty enough for things I was carrying. I also purchased a hydroseeder that came on an 18 foot Load Trail flatbed that has (2) 8,000# axles. It needs new wood floor because it was always getting wet but that trailer is stout and pulls like a dream. I plan to keep it. I am thinking of putting the hydro equipment on the 9 ton and position the weight so it has tongue weight. Furthermore I have a 30 foot deck over Gooseneck that is just too big for my needs that I am going to sell.
So once my grass is all done I will sell the 9 ton with hydroseeder and the 30 foot gooseneck leaving me with the pull behind 18' load trail, and the Lamar dump. Between those two trailers I can carry anything I own.
I do like that concept of how to balance the trailer. You taught me something valuable. I still might do that! I want to know what that trailer weighs as it sits. That trailer is not pretty today. I plan to hit it with the pressure washer and zero degree rotating nozzle and roll a fresh coat of paint on it. The more I think about it, I think repositioning the axles per your recommendation is the way to go. I can't believe it would take too long. The smart idea would be to precisely mark both sides before cutting away, Find where the center goes and use scribed marks to reposition

***Valuable Information @JakeK. Thanks!***

That would suppose the engineers who designed the trailer got the axle position wrong. I find that notion to be somewhat lacking in basis.
Every time we load a trailer, we remain aware of the balance and adjust the location of center of mass of the load accordingly, However, empty weight is empty weight and that should not be subject to personal preference or interpretation.

 

[Schifference]

Understanding the Yukon would not be the preferable tow vehicle, if hitch heights were comparable, it would be a nice option if going across town to fetch or drop a load that would not exceed the Yukon tow capacity. I am entertaining getting this hitch.