When do you change engine oil?

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Tazza

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Just a quickie, how often does everyone change engine oil?
I changed my oil last week after doing 10 hours run in on a fully re-conditioned engine. The oil was pretty black, but not the heavy black you normally get on diesels. The manual says to change after 50 hours, but after 5 X as long it would be jet black. I like to keep my oil as clean as possible but 50 hour changes sure wont keep it like that.
I don't want to change the oil too often, as it takes about 8 litres and the oil isn't that cheap ooh plus a filter.
I know dirty oil is normal for a diesel, but what does everyone thing?
 

Tazza

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*think
I really should learn to use spell check!!!! *hangs head in shame*
 

farmboy55

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*think
I really should learn to use spell check!!!! *hangs head in shame*
Hey Tazza when I was in auto mech school many moon's ago my teacher told was that is you chk your oil and it was clean looking it's wasn't doing it's job of cleaning the motor. for a deisel engine 50 hrs seem's rather often. I would think more 200 hrs myself or at least 1 time a yr. I keep mine change pretty often. dennis
 

farmboy55

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*think
I really should learn to use spell check!!!! *hangs head in shame*
Hey Tazza when I was in auto mech school many moon's ago my teacher told was that if you chk your oil and it was clean looking it's wasn't doing it's job of cleaning the motor. for a deisel engine 50 hrs seem's rather often. I would think more 200 hrs myself or at least 1 time a yr. I keep mine change pretty often. dennis
 

Tazza

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Hey Tazza when I was in auto mech school many moon's ago my teacher told was that if you chk your oil and it was clean looking it's wasn't doing it's job of cleaning the motor. for a deisel engine 50 hrs seem's rather often. I would think more 200 hrs myself or at least 1 time a yr. I keep mine change pretty often. dennis
I thought 50 hours was pretty low, but after seeing the colour after only 10 i see why they want you to change it more often. Your rite, it does show that the oil is doing it job. On one of my machines i just did an oil and filter change on, the filter had october 04 written on it from last time i changed it. The oil was still pretty clean, it was black but the sort you can still see through, i have no idea on hours as the hour meter has been dead ever since i got the machine.
 

Bob Horrell

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I thought 50 hours was pretty low, but after seeing the colour after only 10 i see why they want you to change it more often. Your rite, it does show that the oil is doing it job. On one of my machines i just did an oil and filter change on, the filter had october 04 written on it from last time i changed it. The oil was still pretty clean, it was black but the sort you can still see through, i have no idea on hours as the hour meter has been dead ever since i got the machine.
Diesel engines produce soot which turns the oil black relatively quickly. This doesn't necessarily require an oil change. If you ever have oil analysis done you will find that the oil can be very black with soot and still be in an acceptable PPM level for soot. Some over the road truckers using synthetic oils and bypass filters go many tens of thousands of miles before an oil change and still have acceptable soot levels. I have found that 200 to 250hrs (or once a year) is acceptable for most applications.
 

WebbCo

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Diesel engines produce soot which turns the oil black relatively quickly. This doesn't necessarily require an oil change. If you ever have oil analysis done you will find that the oil can be very black with soot and still be in an acceptable PPM level for soot. Some over the road truckers using synthetic oils and bypass filters go many tens of thousands of miles before an oil change and still have acceptable soot levels. I have found that 200 to 250hrs (or once a year) is acceptable for most applications.
Bobcat says 250, but in really dusty conditions 200. What will tell you a lot is that inner air filter, if its getting just as dirty as the outer, you should consider a changing your oil and filter more often, plus DONT EVER TAP YOUR FILTERS,OUT OR USE AIR! Oh crap what Im I saying? Im a parts man! I will make a lot more on that replacement engine than all the filters you should have got!!
 

Tazza

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Bobcat says 250, but in really dusty conditions 200. What will tell you a lot is that inner air filter, if its getting just as dirty as the outer, you should consider a changing your oil and filter more often, plus DONT EVER TAP YOUR FILTERS,OUT OR USE AIR! Oh crap what Im I saying? Im a parts man! I will make a lot more on that replacement engine than all the filters you should have got!!
Well, *if* i ever dusted my engine i wouldn't get my parts from my dealer to repair the engine, sorry :) That is unless you can put in a good word for me with my local dealer *wink*
The parts i have been using are less than 1/2 the price of genuine. The last engine i did cost me $1,400 AUD to fully re-condition it. Thats new pistons and rings, new dry liners, all bearings and thrust washers and gaskets. That also included $400 for a pump and injector re-condition. The one i'm doing now is costing me a bit more as it needed 8 new valves and new seats.
Now, the inner filter.... mine doesn't run one of these, it just has an outer. My manual shows an inner and outer but they wanted in the order of $400 for a new filter housing not sure about filters so i forgot about it and got a second hand housing for $20 and used a spare filter i had. Are these essential? I don't want to risk killing my engine for the sake of a $20 filter.
 

WebbCo

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Well, *if* i ever dusted my engine i wouldn't get my parts from my dealer to repair the engine, sorry :) That is unless you can put in a good word for me with my local dealer *wink*
The parts i have been using are less than 1/2 the price of genuine. The last engine i did cost me $1,400 AUD to fully re-condition it. Thats new pistons and rings, new dry liners, all bearings and thrust washers and gaskets. That also included $400 for a pump and injector re-condition. The one i'm doing now is costing me a bit more as it needed 8 new valves and new seats.
Now, the inner filter.... mine doesn't run one of these, it just has an outer. My manual shows an inner and outer but they wanted in the order of $400 for a new filter housing not sure about filters so i forgot about it and got a second hand housing for $20 and used a spare filter i had. Are these essential? I don't want to risk killing my engine for the sake of a $20 filter.
I really belive in them, when customers bring me their filters to match up and show me the inner filter and how caked with dirt it is, you just know that if it had not been there I would be quoting an engine...20.00 is cheap insurance...
 

goodtech

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I really belive in them, when customers bring me their filters to match up and show me the inner filter and how caked with dirt it is, you just know that if it had not been there I would be quoting an engine...20.00 is cheap insurance...
most bobcat inner air filters that I see are shot, it is cheap insurance Tazz. As for the oil change, do it the first 50 hrs, it gets all the metal shavings out of the engine, oil and filter that is why bobcat reccommends it, then like mark said every 200 hrs if in dusty conditions and 250 if not. watch your air filter. I use to work in a aluminum plant where the ore would plug the filters within 25 hrs of run time, and some come in to get serviced with 250 hrs and they are spotless. It is just very cheap insurance!
 

Tazza

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most bobcat inner air filters that I see are shot, it is cheap insurance Tazz. As for the oil change, do it the first 50 hrs, it gets all the metal shavings out of the engine, oil and filter that is why bobcat reccommends it, then like mark said every 200 hrs if in dusty conditions and 250 if not. watch your air filter. I use to work in a aluminum plant where the ore would plug the filters within 25 hrs of run time, and some come in to get serviced with 250 hrs and they are spotless. It is just very cheap insurance!
I'll get the old man to try and source one, like i said its a different air filter assembily so i can't get one off Bobcat. Its worth a few bucks to save a $1,000 rebuild.
BTW God to see you back here again!! I take it things have settled back down? you did say you had a few months of work coming up that would keep you really busy.
 

140mower

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Hi Tazza,
I've been thinking about what to use as a regular interval for oil changes myself since buying my 763 back in May. I changed it shortly after I got it (unfortunately it was at an odd number 2867hrs) and now I'm just about 180hrs since. I think I'll change it again soon and try and stay at 180hrs or there abouts until I get back onto a more even number, then I'll go for 200hrs between changes. I'm running 15/40 wt. Castrol, same as in my pick-up ('93 Dodge with Cummins) which I buy in 20 liter pails for about $35.00 cdn, sure brings the cost of oil down versus buying in individual 1 liter containers. I also buy 10/30 by the pail for the hydraulics and wifes F150 p/u., it's a little less convenient when you only need a top up between changes, but if you fill a 4 liter jug at the same time you're doing the oil change that helps some.
10 hours after a rebuild sounds about right to me, I think I'd be tempted to give it one more at around the 50hr mark, just be sure all the filings are out, even if it's only piece of mind. You'd be suprised how much contamination is in there after a rebuild. If you cover up the waste oil for a couple days to let it settle and gently pour off the top, the bottom looks like a nice metalic paint.
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An extra $50.00 to go with a $1000.00 rebuild seems like good insurance to me.
Don
 

Tazza

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Hi Tazza,
I've been thinking about what to use as a regular interval for oil changes myself since buying my 763 back in May. I changed it shortly after I got it (unfortunately it was at an odd number 2867hrs) and now I'm just about 180hrs since. I think I'll change it again soon and try and stay at 180hrs or there abouts until I get back onto a more even number, then I'll go for 200hrs between changes. I'm running 15/40 wt. Castrol, same as in my pick-up ('93 Dodge with Cummins) which I buy in 20 liter pails for about $35.00 cdn, sure brings the cost of oil down versus buying in individual 1 liter containers. I also buy 10/30 by the pail for the hydraulics and wifes F150 p/u., it's a little less convenient when you only need a top up between changes, but if you fill a 4 liter jug at the same time you're doing the oil change that helps some.
10 hours after a rebuild sounds about right to me, I think I'd be tempted to give it one more at around the 50hr mark, just be sure all the filings are out, even if it's only piece of mind. You'd be suprised how much contamination is in there after a rebuild. If you cover up the waste oil for a couple days to let it settle and gently pour off the top, the bottom looks like a nice metalic paint. An extra $50.00 to go with a $1000.00 rebuild seems like good insurance to me.
Don
Well i was very careful to keep everything clean clean clean. I blew everything down with kero and compressed air. I'm sure there was still a bit, but i think i did take more care than most engine re-conditioning places do.
I don't mind changing oil more often than needed, that way i know everything is rite. I really should have cut the original filter open to see what was inside, but i forgot.....
I am going to be re-building another engine in the next few weeks. I will try and remember to check for metal shavings on that engine.
As for a nice round number for servicing, that makes things so much easier to remember.
 

140mower

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Well i was very careful to keep everything clean clean clean. I blew everything down with kero and compressed air. I'm sure there was still a bit, but i think i did take more care than most engine re-conditioning places do.
I don't mind changing oil more often than needed, that way i know everything is rite. I really should have cut the original filter open to see what was inside, but i forgot.....
I am going to be re-building another engine in the next few weeks. I will try and remember to check for metal shavings on that engine.
As for a nice round number for servicing, that makes things so much easier to remember.
I'm pretty sure the last engine I did was pretty clean when I put it together, but there is a surpising amount of initial wear during break-in, especially in the rings/bore area. Completely normal in a new/rebuilt engine, thats actually why I've been told not to run synthetic oils during break-in as it doesn't allow the rings to seat properly into the bore because it's too slippery.
What's the next engine you're rebuilding going into? Is it gas or diesel? Sounds like some quality shop time in your near future.
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(unless it was an unexpected malfunction
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) I've only rebuilt a couple of engines so far, but enjoyed working on ones I've done, it's kind of nice holding a wrench in your hand during re-assembly and still being clean aside from oily hands when you're done. Too bad it doesn't fit the pocket book to do it too often(hope the bobcat and my trucks are paying attention here
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) Keep us posted and throw in a few pic's as things progress.
Don
 

Tazza

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I'm pretty sure the last engine I did was pretty clean when I put it together, but there is a surpising amount of initial wear during break-in, especially in the rings/bore area. Completely normal in a new/rebuilt engine, thats actually why I've been told not to run synthetic oils during break-in as it doesn't allow the rings to seat properly into the bore because it's too slippery.
What's the next engine you're rebuilding going into? Is it gas or diesel? Sounds like some quality shop time in your near future.(unless it was an unexpected malfunction) I've only rebuilt a couple of engines so far, but enjoyed working on ones I've done, it's kind of nice holding a wrench in your hand during re-assembly and still being clean aside from oily hands when you're done. Too bad it doesn't fit the pocket book to do it too often(hope the bobcat and my trucks are paying attention here) Keep us posted and throw in a few pic's as things progress.
Don
Its another Kubota v1702 for yet another 743 i have. I bought it dead, it had a hole through the block where it hung a rod. I had a spare engine from the burnt out machine i just did. The head was totally dead, i got an entire used engine with a good head for less than a bare head was going to cost me.
I don't know how well i ran that engine in though, as for the first say 30 mins of its life i was only idling without any real load. I had it is when i was re-assembling the machine, so it had the pumps in but they weren't under any strain, it was used to move it around the shed as needed.
I don't have any re-co gear as such, but my dad works for an engine re-conditioning place so i get parts at cost, and free machining, i can't complain!!!!.This was my first *real* engine i did, all the others were single cylinder ones, just toys. I had the book for it, as long as you take your time you just can't go wrong!.
I will try and take pictures this time, last time i was just too focused and i didn't think about it until after.
At the moment all my gear is playing nice, hopefully it will stay that way!
 
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