smoking s130

[robmon]

I have a s130 with 1100 hours, when starting cold it runs clear for about 15 secs then starts significantly blowing blue smoke until it reaches normal operating temperature, then hardly smokes at all unless under extreme load, it did run low on oil at one stage but only needed 2 litres to top up again, by the way when does the low oil warning light come on?? one would think it should come on before it completely runs out!!! I understand oil levels should be checked before every day, but...... you know how it is!! any thought appreciated

 

[Tazza]

Not sure at what point that the light comes on, but that depends on if the sender and light are all functioning.
I too know it happens, ideally things are meant to be checked every time you use it, but its rare for it to actually be done each and every time.
Does it run a turbo? if so, it sounds like you have a blown seal, it may be the reason you were down so much oil too. If it has one, remove the inlet hose, see if its oily and if the turbo has any play in the compressor turbines.

 

[robmon]

Not sure at what point that the light comes on, but that depends on if the sender and light are all functioning.
I too know it happens, ideally things are meant to be checked every time you use it, but its rare for it to actually be done each and every time.
Does it run a turbo? if so, it sounds like you have a blown seal, it may be the reason you were down so much oil too. If it has one, remove the inlet hose, see if its oily and if the turbo has any play in the compressor turbines.

No not running a turbo, what about valve stem seals??? could this be consistent with buggered seals?? If so what is involved in fixing them, cheers

 

[Tazza]

No not running a turbo, what about valve stem seals??? could this be consistent with buggered seals?? If so what is involved in fixing them, cheers

Valve stem seals are possible, but i'd have doubted there would be a lot of smoke, generally at startup then it clears up. You can do them with the head still on, you can pressureise the pot to hold the valve in place, ir turn the engine over to TDC on that cylinder and remove the spring and replacing the seals

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Valve stem seals are possible, but i'd have doubted there would be a lot of smoke, generally at startup then it clears up. You can do them with the head still on, you can pressureise the pot to hold the valve in place, ir turn the engine over to TDC on that cylinder and remove the spring and replacing the seals

codes and maint records would be of much help.s130s with low hrs dont have issues,

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

codes and maint records would be of much help.s130s with low hrs dont have issues,

also ran low? external leak? 1100 hrs still new.should be no burning of oil at this point.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

The light won't come on until the oil is so low there is none left is the sump for the pump to pickup, resulting in a severe pressure drop triggering the light. I'd guess it wuld have to be 4 qts low, and 1 qt of the remain oil would be flowing around the engine and not in the sump to be picked up.
At 2 qts low you likely hurt nothing, and I'd guess rod and main bearings on the crank would be the first failure if it had no oil pressure for very long, and it would have to be much lower
Does kinda sound like valve seal, they drip onto the pistons when the engine is shut off, then burn the oil off when started. Still un common for a 2203 Kubota with those hours.
How is the oil consumption? at 1100 hours there should be almost none, mine run their 200 hours to oil change with no need to add.
How many hours did you have since oil chang when you noticed it was low?
Ken

 

[robmon]

The light won't come on until the oil is so low there is none left is the sump for the pump to pickup, resulting in a severe pressure drop triggering the light. I'd guess it wuld have to be 4 qts low, and 1 qt of the remain oil would be flowing around the engine and not in the sump to be picked up.
At 2 qts low you likely hurt nothing, and I'd guess rod and main bearings on the crank would be the first failure if it had no oil pressure for very long, and it would have to be much lower
Does kinda sound like valve seal, they drip onto the pistons when the engine is shut off, then burn the oil off when started. Still un common for a 2203 Kubota with those hours.
How is the oil consumption? at 1100 hours there should be almost none, mine run their 200 hours to oil change with no need to add.
How many hours did you have since oil chang when you noticed it was low?
Ken

I used about 2.5 litres of oil in 250 hours, i am leaning towards valve stem seals the more i think about it, as i said lots of smoke early then backs off. I bought machine 2nd hand so maybe hours are not correct?? other than this problem everything else is perfect , no loss of power or overheating or anything else

 

[robmon]

I used about 2.5 litres of oil in 250 hours, i am leaning towards valve stem seals the more i think about it, as i said lots of smoke early then backs off. I bought machine 2nd hand so maybe hours are not correct?? other than this problem everything else is perfect , no loss of power or overheating or anything else

ok, now we have problems!! since latest oil change , 15hrs ago I have gone through 3 litres of oil, as previously stated significant blue smoke when cold and settles down once warm/hot. Wouldnt think that much oil would go past valve seals?I have also discovered that wing nut on air filter housing seems to be missing a center locator which i think should hold outer filter in place, I suspect that outer filter has dropped and allowed dust to bypass at rubber seal, even though inner airfilter was positioned correctly, how difficult are these engines to get out v2203? thinking rebuild , some say almost not worth rebuild, buy new engine, any comments appreciated, anyone got any approx cost of putting new rings ??

 

[Tazza]

ok, now we have problems!! since latest oil change , 15hrs ago I have gone through 3 litres of oil, as previously stated significant blue smoke when cold and settles down once warm/hot. Wouldnt think that much oil would go past valve seals?I have also discovered that wing nut on air filter housing seems to be missing a center locator which i think should hold outer filter in place, I suspect that outer filter has dropped and allowed dust to bypass at rubber seal, even though inner airfilter was positioned correctly, how difficult are these engines to get out v2203? thinking rebuild , some say almost not worth rebuild, buy new engine, any comments appreciated, anyone got any approx cost of putting new rings ??

Pulling the engine and pump assembily isn't as hard as you may think.
A used V2203 off ebay is very appealing. They are around the 2k mark, a rebuild would run you more than that.
The nut you say was missing the washer, did it still have the inner air filter? small round one that sits inside? If so, the engine should be ok if you think it drew in dust. That's what its meant to do, its the last stop for any potential dust getting in.
I can't see valve stem seals leaking that much oil. It would have to be a cracked head or worn/stuck oil rings.
Have you looked up engine rebuilders that have an area on the forum? They may have clues for you to try, or may be able to offer you a good deal on an engine, or even your old core if you get a replacement engine.
How does it start? is it easy to fire up? glow timer counts down, flick the key and instant start? or does it take a bit to get going?

 

[robmon]

Pulling the engine and pump assembily isn't as hard as you may think.
A used V2203 off ebay is very appealing. They are around the 2k mark, a rebuild would run you more than that.
The nut you say was missing the washer, did it still have the inner air filter? small round one that sits inside? If so, the engine should be ok if you think it drew in dust. That's what its meant to do, its the last stop for any potential dust getting in.
I can't see valve stem seals leaking that much oil. It would have to be a cracked head or worn/stuck oil rings.
Have you looked up engine rebuilders that have an area on the forum? They may have clues for you to try, or may be able to offer you a good deal on an engine, or even your old core if you get a replacement engine.
How does it start? is it easy to fire up? glow timer counts down, flick the key and instant start? or does it take a bit to get going?

hi tazza, yes engine glow counts down and engine starts straight away, runs very smooth, sounds like nothing wrong at all, doesn't seem to be down on power, inner filter has always remained intact, this problem seemed to come about very quickly not something that has been compounding, no discolouration in oil or coolant , compression test might be the next step, as previously stated , only done 1100 hrs,

 

[Miker67]

hi tazza, yes engine glow counts down and engine starts straight away, runs very smooth, sounds like nothing wrong at all, doesn't seem to be down on power, inner filter has always remained intact, this problem seemed to come about very quickly not something that has been compounding, no discolouration in oil or coolant , compression test might be the next step, as previously stated , only done 1100 hrs,

I would do a compression test, but do it before starting the unit and then do it again after warmed up. 3 Litres of oil is a lot to be going thru.

 

[Tazza]

I would do a compression test, but do it before starting the unit and then do it again after warmed up. 3 Litres of oil is a lot to be going thru.

I just can't think of where else it could be going. I guess there is always a chance a piston has cracked allowing engine oil to be burnt up, i can't see a head gasket causing it as the oil squirter has an O ring on it. A head crack could allow oil in, but i have my doubts.
Cracked ring or scored bore is possible, but i'd have expected it to roun a little rough and smoke all the time.
What is the breether like on this engine? I have a few machines with different styles. The S150 routs the breether tube back to the inlet manifold, if it was drawing in oil it will simply be burnt. This will cause blue smoke, i'd suspect more so at startup too.
Can you give it a try of removing the breether tube to the inlet manifold and plugging the hole. The other end should only be allowing gas/oil out, so put a rag over it. See if it smokes as much when you start it up?
As it still starts so well, it soulds like it should be something simple. Just to find it.....

 

[robmon]

I just can't think of where else it could be going. I guess there is always a chance a piston has cracked allowing engine oil to be burnt up, i can't see a head gasket causing it as the oil squirter has an O ring on it. A head crack could allow oil in, but i have my doubts.
Cracked ring or scored bore is possible, but i'd have expected it to roun a little rough and smoke all the time.
What is the breether like on this engine? I have a few machines with different styles. The S150 routs the breether tube back to the inlet manifold, if it was drawing in oil it will simply be burnt. This will cause blue smoke, i'd suspect more so at startup too.
Can you give it a try of removing the breether tube to the inlet manifold and plugging the hole. The other end should only be allowing gas/oil out, so put a rag over it. See if it smokes as much when you start it up?
As it still starts so well, it soulds like it should be something simple. Just to find it.....

no change. took breather of inlet blocked it off, there was a fair amount of pressure coming out of rocket cover , does this indicate blowby?

 

[Tazza]

no change. took breather of inlet blocked it off, there was a fair amount of pressure coming out of rocket cover , does this indicate blowby?

Sadly it does. Can you get your hands on a diesel compression tester? Sounds like one pot is allowing exhaust gas to leak past.
At least a tester will tell you for sure.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Sadly it does. Can you get your hands on a diesel compression tester? Sounds like one pot is allowing exhaust gas to leak past.
At least a tester will tell you for sure.

codes woul help if 30 air filter shut dons 5 mins apart , means air filters were clogged and probally beat against unit to clean ,half a teaspoon will smoke an eng, i would be money on cyl walls being coffe cupped.(taper small at bottom getting wider as comes up, a compression ttest to confirm, followed head removal and bores checked.can be done from top end ,seen it so many times iit would make you puke,beep beep my air filters dirty , but it will start , might as well finish job ok that did not work ill just clean it.18 dollar filter 8000.00 eng. for a dirty air filter.when the come in smokin and burning first thing i do is get codes,if repetitive air filters show ,i got two choices spend two hundred dollars to confirm or,say yea dude in my experince its smoked, valve seals failure is rare unless some whacky oil or additives have been put in, turbo even rarer,

 

[robmon]

codes woul help if 30 air filter shut dons 5 mins apart , means air filters were clogged and probally beat against unit to clean ,half a teaspoon will smoke an eng, i would be money on cyl walls being coffe cupped.(taper small at bottom getting wider as comes up, a compression ttest to confirm, followed head removal and bores checked.can be done from top end ,seen it so many times iit would make you puke,beep beep my air filters dirty , but it will start , might as well finish job ok that did not work ill just clean it.18 dollar filter 8000.00 eng. for a dirty air filter.when the come in smokin and burning first thing i do is get codes,if repetitive air filters show ,i got two choices spend two hundred dollars to confirm or,say yea dude in my experince its smoked, valve seals failure is rare unless some whacky oil or additives have been put in, turbo even rarer,

I am going to remove engine and either repair or replace depending on what i find, any tips on removing engine from s130, thanks, Rob

 

[Miker67]

I am going to remove engine and either repair or replace depending on what i find, any tips on removing engine from s130, thanks, Rob

I have done an engine job on my S130, so I can offer the following first hand advice.
Pull the harness at the firewall connector, tie remaining portion to the side.
Pull the starter, label fasteners and store.
Pull the drive belt cover(left hand side when facing motor), paying attention to the spring clips that like to go "boing" and shoot in untraceable directions.
Loosen tensioner pulley in between flywheel and hydraulic pump, remove belt, replace tensioner when belt is off so you don't loose stuff during storage.
Clamp fuel line before filter, remove and set to the side.
Remove filter assy, providing access to the hidden fasteners for the rear most mount on the right side.
Block flywheel and remove flywheel bolts.
Remove air cleaner housing and inlet tubing, set to the side.
Remove the muffler, the clamps are off the shelf clamps so you can cut/break and replace from the auto store. Cut the tubing if need be, but don't damage the muffler, these are special order and often backordered. To ease re-installation, expand the muffler inlet by driving in a trailer hitch ball.
Remove the water lines going to/from radiator and set to the side. There will be a long metal tube on one of them. Pull the whole tube if you can reach the fastener.
At this point, all that is left are the motor mounts. The set to the rear is VERY hard to access, but it can be done and takes longer to get than all the rest combined. You MAY be able to get a socket on the upper bolts, but the lowers will require a box wrench. You might be able to get in a flex head ratchet wrench if you take time to clean the accumulated dirt from the area around the mount. You will have to pass the head thru a hole in a plate to access the lowermost bolts and a conventional wrench can only do 1/8 turn at a go. You will need someone small, but strong and patient to break them loose, re-installation is much easier if you clean and lube everything up.
It would also be a lot easier to get at this mount if you pull the head first.
The output side of the motor is thru bolted to the metal flywheel surround. Pull these 8 or so bolts last.
The rearmost mount(closest to the door) is easy and should be self explanatory.
I pulled the motor, head off, by hand out the rear door and slid it on to one of those harbor freight hydraulic lift tables I set to match the height of the machine. I reinstalled using a similar method. A conventional cherry picker will not work without modification because the spread of the feet hit the wheels and you can not get the hoist in deep enough to grab the motor. If one were to remove the tires and block the machine from the center of the gearcase using heavy timber, a standard engine hoist would probably would work just fine. The ideal tool would probably be one of the Genie Lift pallet lifters you can get at the rental store or a small forklift if you have such things.
On the motor dis-assembly, the crankshaft main journals are 2 piece journals that you assemble while the crankshaft is OUT of the motor. When you take them off, you need to label both the journal orientation, as well as location. They are a thousandth or two different from one end to the other and if you mess up the order the crank wont go back in right.

When you go for parts your local kubota tractor place will be lost unless you can bring them part numbers to look up. Kubota contract agreements with bobcat won't allow the Kubota Ag brand dealers to access the parts listing so getting parts can be tricky unless you deal direct with Bobcat, or a Kubota loose motor dealer.
I get all my kubota parts from Country Sales and Service in Orrville, Ohio. Google the name and you will find their website. All they need is your motor number and probably have a full kit for your motor on the shelf, or a rebuilt swing motor if that is what you want. Mine they shipped with upgrades (I had bent rods) the same day.
There is also a place in Cape Girardeau, MO that has decent prices on running take outs.

 

[biggie]

I am going to remove engine and either repair or replace depending on what i find, any tips on removing engine from s130, thanks, Rob

B4 you yank the engine. should really do a compression test. It could be a cracked head, valves, rings, cyl,,,,,,. try to figure it out, with-out the engine running is a crap-shoot. The compression should be between 427-469, with less than 10% beween the cyls. Min.is 341. No tools? Should take a dealer around 1-2 hrs to do it. With the wet test. FYI the engine and hydros come out as a package, there mounted on the same frame. New engine $7000, Rem 5000.New head $1800.