Repowering section

[Case1816]

I asked the forum guys for a section on repowering skidsteers since that was the reason I found this site, and I figured there were others out there like me who likely had a good skidsteer, but the engine wore out.
I see quite a few older ones out there yet, several being sold at auction, and the main sticking point seems to be ones with older engines. If you can fit a new one in, you might get several more years out of your machine.
It would be nice to see some guys who have changed theirs over and put diesel engines in. I've heard the Onan engines are popular.
Anyway, I figured I would start out with my own repower of my Case 1816 skidsteer.

At the start of last winter, after clearing three driveways of snow from the first snow fall, the engine made a noise and lost power. I managed to get it back to my shop, but I could hear a clanking coming from the engine. After thinking about it awhile, I figured I didn't have the time to take the engine out, figure out what kind it was, try find some parts somewhere and hope they would work, get it back together and running in time for the next snowfall. Having previously called salvage yards all over the country for a hydraulic pump, I figured I wouldn't have much luck. I then found out the engine was not original Tecumseh, but had been replaced at some point with a Wisconsin TJD. It had been repainted, so the dataplate was painted over and hard to tell what it was.

I did some searching again on the internet that night for repowering a skidloader (and found this site). Farmshow magazine ran several articles about repowering all kinds of equipment, including skidloaders, so I thought I might find something.
I found Smallenginewarehouse.com pretty quick and found they had a huge selection of skidloaders and other equipment listed with engines that would work in them, including one for my Case 1816. I ordered the 16hp Briggs engine.

The next night, I took out the old Wisconsin engine hoping the snow would stay away for a few days. I got the new engine in three days, took it out and started looking at what I needed to do to get it installed. The engine fit into the space perfectly, but the shaft would sit lower than the Wisconsin did. It also had no chance of matching up to the existing mounting bolt holes. Another problem that came up was the existing pulley off the old engine was a larger shaft size, and had a tapered hole which shims fit in to hold onto the shaft.
I took some measurements, then decided I could weld some plates and brackets together to make a short stand for the engine to mount on. It fixed two problems, raising the shaft high enough, and I could drill proper mounting holes for the engine.
For the pulley, I bought a shaft collar of the right size and decided to weld it on the pulley. Risky, but I didn't have much to lose.

Once I got the mount welded together, it was a matter of bolting things together, running the existing wiring, throttle and choke cables and gas line, and firing it up. Even the old belts still worked.
It started and ran great, and seemed to have plenty of power considering I was replacing a 18hp 2 cylinder Wisconsin with a 16hp 2 cylinder Briggs.

Now I wanted it to snow to try out the new engine, and a couple nights later, I got what I wanted.

I fired up the skidloader, cleared all the driveways and got it back to the shop when I heard some more clanking. The weld on the shaft collar had broken from the pulley.
The new engine was easier to work with than the old one. The motor mounting bolts were easier to get to, so after removing them and loosening the belt tension, I could slide the motor back and remove the pulley and collar. I then found out the pulley was actually cast iron instead of steel. Again, Farmshow came through since I had just read an article about welding cast metal.

To weld it, several guys suggested the cast piece had to be heated up pretty good, and short welds using nickel rod had to be used. Reheating in between short welds would help, then it had to be cooled very slowly.

After heating it up good, I welded it with nickel rod, reheating often, then when done welding, kept reheating it less and less until it cooled enough.

I put the pulley back on, tightened the belt tension and bolted the motor back down, and it lasted the rest of the winter, which was great because it was a record snowfall for our area last year.
It's been holding since, the engine has been running great, and it uses much less gas than the old one did.
Actual time from breakdown to getting the new engine in and running was about 10 days, and cost was roughly $1100.00 by the time I was done.
Speaking of older machines, if you guys know of good salvage yards anywhere in the country, go over to the Salvage section and post a link. Help us guys keep our older machines running.
Thanks

 

[Tazza]

Nice work.
How true does the pulley run after you welded it up? i assume it still works well enough and with being belt drive its more forgiving, the other way would have been to get someone to machine you a small sleeve for the end of the motor shaft to suit the pulley.

 

[Case1816]

Nice work.
How true does the pulley run after you welded it up? i assume it still works well enough and with being belt drive its more forgiving, the other way would have been to get someone to machine you a small sleeve for the end of the motor shaft to suit the pulley.

I barely tacked the collar to the pulley, then checked it several times and ways to determine if it would wobble. From what I could tell eyeballing and spinning it, it looked perfect. After welding it all the way around and putting it on and starting it up, I can't see even the slightest wobble in it.
As for the sleeve, I thought about that. I couldn't find a pulley anywhere that would handle three belts like the one I needed, and the one I had required tapered split shims with set screws to hold the shims into the pulley, and that would fit a larger shaft. The pulley itself was tapered, so I had no way of using the shims on a sleeve.
I also didn't think I had the time to try get anything else machined or a different pulley, so I thought if I welded it and it didn't work, I would be forced to find a different pulley. I took a chance and so far it's worked out.

 

[Tom Brown]

I barely tacked the collar to the pulley, then checked it several times and ways to determine if it would wobble. From what I could tell eyeballing and spinning it, it looked perfect. After welding it all the way around and putting it on and starting it up, I can't see even the slightest wobble in it.
As for the sleeve, I thought about that. I couldn't find a pulley anywhere that would handle three belts like the one I needed, and the one I had required tapered split shims with set screws to hold the shims into the pulley, and that would fit a larger shaft. The pulley itself was tapered, so I had no way of using the shims on a sleeve.
I also didn't think I had the time to try get anything else machined or a different pulley, so I thought if I welded it and it didn't work, I would be forced to find a different pulley. I took a chance and so far it's worked out.

Can I ask why you didn't try to fit a larger engine? My NH LS125 has 16.5 hp. It's probably powered correctly but there have been a couple of times when I wish it had a wee bit more. Admittedly, the only time I've stalled it is when trying to cut into hard packed dirt with a smooth bucket. I assume your 16 hp Case has about the same power. If it were me, I'd be inclined to see if I could fit about a 20hp engine in there.

 

[Case1816]

Can I ask why you didn't try to fit a larger engine? My NH LS125 has 16.5 hp. It's probably powered correctly but there have been a couple of times when I wish it had a wee bit more. Admittedly, the only time I've stalled it is when trying to cut into hard packed dirt with a smooth bucket. I assume your 16 hp Case has about the same power. If it were me, I'd be inclined to see if I could fit about a 20hp engine in there.

The 1816 was originally powered with a 16hp engine, and the one in mine was an 18.2 Wisconsin engine. Someone had already put a different engine in it. I figured the original size 16hp engine would be enough. After putting it in and using it, it will work for most of what I do with it. Sometimes I wish I would have put a 18 or 20hp engine in, but then I think I would be stressing or breaking other parts. I didn't look closely at the difference in dimensions between a 16 and 18 or 20hp engine, so the bigger engines may not have fit anyway.
I mainly use it for manure and snow, but will haul sand/gravel with it without problems. The bucket is fairly small, so I welded together bucket extensions and bolted them on the sides. The bucket is now about 4 feet wide, and a good load of gravel loads it pretty good. The wider bucket works great in snow and manure.

 

[Tom Brown]

The 1816 was originally powered with a 16hp engine, and the one in mine was an 18.2 Wisconsin engine. Someone had already put a different engine in it. I figured the original size 16hp engine would be enough. After putting it in and using it, it will work for most of what I do with it. Sometimes I wish I would have put a 18 or 20hp engine in, but then I think I would be stressing or breaking other parts. I didn't look closely at the difference in dimensions between a 16 and 18 or 20hp engine, so the bigger engines may not have fit anyway.
I mainly use it for manure and snow, but will haul sand/gravel with it without problems. The bucket is fairly small, so I welded together bucket extensions and bolted them on the sides. The bucket is now about 4 feet wide, and a good load of gravel loads it pretty good. The wider bucket works great in snow and manure.

I admire your wisdom for sticking close to the factory specifications and design. There is always a weak link so it's better to run out of engine power than to have another component run out of strength.

 

[Case1816]

I admire your wisdom for sticking close to the factory specifications and design. There is always a weak link so it's better to run out of engine power than to have another component run out of strength.

Not really wisdom as much as it was not wanting to repair my loader any more than I had to.
I had already had a problem with one of the drive pumps...a roll pin sheared on the yoke which operates the pistons inside the pump. Anway, I called all over the country looking for replacement pumps, and couldn't find any. That was a big reason why I suggested the Salvage section on the forum here. In my calls, I talked with a guy in Missouri who had worked for Case for over 25 years. He suggested the roll pin was sheared, and that I should be able to repair it. After getting the pump out and taking it apart, I found out he was right. The only roll pins I found seemed rather light compared to the original, so I took two of them, one smaller than the other so it would fit inside, and pressed them together. It was too long, so I cut it to the right length with my Dremel. I put everything back together, and it has worked fine since.
To my point. When talking with the guy, he mentioned one of the axles may have worn out the keyway on the shaft. He said I could take it out and have a machine shop cut a slot on the opposite side. I figured the axles, or many other drive parts may be overly stressed if I was pushing with a much larger engine.

 

[Tazza]

Not really wisdom as much as it was not wanting to repair my loader any more than I had to.
I had already had a problem with one of the drive pumps...a roll pin sheared on the yoke which operates the pistons inside the pump. Anway, I called all over the country looking for replacement pumps, and couldn't find any. That was a big reason why I suggested the Salvage section on the forum here. In my calls, I talked with a guy in Missouri who had worked for Case for over 25 years. He suggested the roll pin was sheared, and that I should be able to repair it. After getting the pump out and taking it apart, I found out he was right. The only roll pins I found seemed rather light compared to the original, so I took two of them, one smaller than the other so it would fit inside, and pressed them together. It was too long, so I cut it to the right length with my Dremel. I put everything back together, and it has worked fine since.
To my point. When talking with the guy, he mentioned one of the axles may have worn out the keyway on the shaft. He said I could take it out and have a machine shop cut a slot on the opposite side. I figured the axles, or many other drive parts may be overly stressed if I was pushing with a much larger engine.

You are spot on, if you go and throw in an engine thats too large you rick breaking something. The pumps do have relief valves but i think your biggest concern should be over heating. If you throw a larger engine in the pumps won't load the engine down when they are over stressed and naturally generate more heat. You won't feel it bog down so you won't think about it.

 

[OldMachinist]

You are spot on, if you go and throw in an engine thats too large you rick breaking something. The pumps do have relief valves but i think your biggest concern should be over heating. If you throw a larger engine in the pumps won't load the engine down when they are over stressed and naturally generate more heat. You won't feel it bog down so you won't think about it.

Just for future reference the pulley you described with the tapered bushing sound like whats called a taper lock pulley. The pulley accepts a whole range of different shaft size bushings and are fairly inexpensive($10-$25 depending on the size). I get them from McMaster Carr( http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) because for me almost anything they have in stock is here the next day UPS ground. I know this doesn't help you but it might help someone else looking to repower their machine. Here's a link on how remove and install these bushings.
http://www.gates.com/file_save_comm...dule&file=Vol 53 No 8 TL QD Installation.pdf

 

[Case1816]

Just for future reference the pulley you described with the tapered bushing sound like whats called a taper lock pulley. The pulley accepts a whole range of different shaft size bushings and are fairly inexpensive($10-$25 depending on the size). I get them from McMaster Carr( http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) because for me almost anything they have in stock is here the next day UPS ground. I know this doesn't help you but it might help someone else looking to repower their machine. Here's a link on how remove and install these bushings.
http://www.gates.com/file_save_common.cfm?thispath=Gates%2Fdocuments_module&file=Vol%2053%20No%208%20TL%20%20QD%20Installation.pdf

Grrrrr! I checked McMaster-Carr but couldn't find anything other than fairly generic pulleys....but then I didn't spend a huge amount of time looking there.
Nice to know they do provide that type though, thanks.