LS 180 all of sudden hard starting, white smoke??

[Nik79]

Just joined the forum,looks like a good group. Figured I'll see if anyone can shed some light on my Loader.

I have a 2003 LS 180 with about 3,000 hours. I owned it 3 years, finally got the starter rebuilt, cranks wonderful now. Was running fine up until a few weeks ago. I went to crank it, and now it turns over better then ever. I now have white smoke coming out. You have to continuously crank it and will eventually start and barely run and sputter, but will warm up and run. I'm thinking injector pump maybe, head gasket(water in the diesel), seems like it has plenty of fuel, just takes forever to fire. Maybe rings ? I'm new to diesels, but want to learn and gain some knowledge. Also, the fuel pick up pump won't run( but I have 12 volts hard wired to fix that). And yea the fuel shutoff solenoid (guts removed). Sorry for long post. Any help or point I. A direction would be appreciated. Thanks, Nik

 

[Shanmar]

Um....yea...My first fear is water getting into combustion chamber somehow (head gasket (cheapest), hole/crack in cylinder bore (real bad)). Is coolant changing level or looks? Watch for signs of water in engine oil (milky).

Water in fuel????

Maybe wait and see what other people's thoughts are.

 

[Nik79]

Yeah, head gasket easy fix. I just put new fuel in it . I'll check coolant, thanks

 

[wmodel1897]

I have two of this engines and they are both hard starting if you don't glow plug them. You might check the grow plugs and the glow plug system. The eic controls the glow plugs on my LS170 and was not turning them on . I put a momentary switch in the dash and ran a wire to the glow plug solenoid . I hold it on for ten or twenty second and it starts right up. the solenoid could also be bad. I had to replace the one in mine. Easy way to check glow plugs is to take them out. put the top of them on the pos side of 12v battery while holding them with pliers or something. then ground out the case of the glow plug to the neg on the battery. If it is good the tip will get red hot. you don't want to just hold them with you hand because if they work you will get burned. To check solenoid you can just jump between the two large wires on the solenoid. With a large wire at least ten gauge. for ten to twenty seconds. on second thought I would just jump the solenoid first. If it starts then you know you have a problem in the glow plug system. Good Luck

 

[Nik79]

I thought glow plugs were in cold climates mostly? It was 80 here in WI yesterday. I'll check the glow plugs, I first thought that, but an older buddy of mine said glow plugs aren't needed till it's cold out. Like I said earlier I'm new to learning about diesels.

 

[foton]

some engine manf.s engines like the glow plugs every start unless it is a hot start. I think iseki is one of them. older kubota are that way too. it is kinda funny I have a chinese tractor with a 50 hp quanchi engine, no glow plugs ,no heater manifold,no block heater and that fool thing will start unheated no starting fluid in 30 degree F weather,now it will be noisey for a bit,you would think it is coming apart but it smoothes out in a min. for the life of me what are they doing that these other guys are not to make this happen????

 

[Nik79]

Just joined the forum,looks like a good group. Figured I'll see if anyone can shed some light on my Loader.

I have a 2003 LS 180 with about 3,000 hours. I owned it 3 years, finally got the starter rebuilt, cranks wonderful now. Was running fine up until a few weeks ago. I went to crank it, and now it turns over better then ever. I now have white smoke coming out. You have to continuously crank it and will eventually start and barely run and sputter, but will warm up and run. I'm thinking injector pump maybe, head gasket(water in the diesel), seems like it has plenty of fuel, just takes forever to fire. Maybe rings ? I'm new to diesels, but want to learn and gain some knowledge. Also, the fuel pick up pump won't run( but I have 12 volts hard wired to fix that). And yea the fuel shutoff solenoid (guts removed). Sorry for long post. Any help or point I. A direction would be appreciated. Thanks, Nik

some engine manf.s engines like the glow plugs every start unless it is a hot start. I think iseki is one of them. older kubota are that way too. it is kinda funny I have a chinese tractor with a 50 hp quanchi engine, no glow plugs ,no heater manifold,no block heater and that fool thing will start unheated no starting fluid in 30 degree F weather,now it will be noisey for a bit,you would think it is coming apart but it smoothes out in a min. for the life of me what are they doing that these other guys are not to make this happen????

Yeah I will check that circuit next chance I get. Mice made a mess of my wires, but that's another post sometime. Maybe the 180 likes to be warm.

 

[AndyDWA]

I thought glow plugs were in cold climates mostly? It was 80 here in WI yesterday. I'll check the glow plugs, I first thought that, but an older buddy of mine said glow plugs aren't needed till it's cold out. Like I said earlier I'm new to learning about diesels.

Mine won't start without at least 20 seconds of glow plug. The book recommends 30 seconds and I do that in cooler weather. I live in a relatively warm climate.

 

[AndyDWA]

I thought glow plugs were in cold climates mostly? It was 80 here in WI yesterday. I'll check the glow plugs, I first thought that, but an older buddy of mine said glow plugs aren't needed till it's cold out. Like I said earlier I'm new to learning about diesels.

My L555 won't start without at least 20 seconds of glow plug any time after the engine has cooled. The book recommends 30 seconds and I do that in cooler weather. I live in a relatively warm climate.

 

[Nik79]

Interesting, I still havent had a chance to check on the plugs or circuit. My hydraulic line was leaking. That's another thread . I'll see if I can get to it this week .

 

[Shanmar]

LS180 is the 3 cylinder Ford engine--no glow plugs--at least not the one I owned.. Had a grid heater in the intake that would automatically activate when really cold. LS170 and smaller had the ISM/Shibaura engines--they had glow plugs.

 

[Nik79]

Ok, so yes you are correct my engine doesn't have glow plugs. I didn't check for the grid heater. Is it right in the intake manifold? Any other owners have this? My buddy came over and I started it for him, he said maybe fuel related. Also the high rpm it used to rev to doesn't seem as high, and it used to idle smoothly, now it idles rough. Oil is not milky, so I think that rules out coolant leak. Still trying to figure it out.

 

[Shanmar]

The grid heater is in a block right on top of the intake manifold. But, that's not your problem. The grid heater isn't needed until below freezing--and usually very freezing.
Yea, so no milky oil significantly reduces the chance of coolant leak.
So, thinking about the fuel supply--I'd say make sure you're getting good supply to the injection pump is the next step:
- lift pump pumping well? strong flow to injection pump?
- fuel filter?
- fuel filter head - One time, my LS180 acted like the filter was plugged--changed filter--no change--ended up taking entire fuel filter housing off and cleaning out all the passages. There was some fine fiber material hung up in it plugging it. Don't how it got there, but it was the problem.
- also had a pickup tube in tank get plugged on another machine
Other thoughts/ideas/questions:
- Something funky with the "fuel shutoff solenoid (guts removed)"??
- Could pull injectors and do compression test.
- Slipped timing could allow it to turn over easier and not run well.
- Connection between turbo and intake manifold in good shape?
- Air filter? (Not likely, but had to ask--know a farmer who had dealer pickup his skid loader and haul it in because it wouldn't start--solution--air filter)
- When all ideas exhausted, left with taking injection pump and injectors to an injection pump shop.

 

[Nik79]

Thanks for taking the time to list all those possibilities. You mention the fuel shutoff solenoid. I removed the plunger since I couldn't get power to it. I know it isn't the right fix, but neither is rigging the pickup pump with a 12 v jumper. I've tried to trace out the reason and wiring to get the pump 12 v but I do t have enough time. Does anyone with a crew of kids . lol. It was rigging the pump so I could use it. I'll look into fixing solenoid,, maybe.

 

[Nik79]

The grid heater is in a block right on top of the intake manifold. But, that's not your problem. The grid heater isn't needed until below freezing--and usually very freezing.
Yea, so no milky oil significantly reduces the chance of coolant leak.
So, thinking about the fuel supply--I'd say make sure you're getting good supply to the injection pump is the next step:
- lift pump pumping well? strong flow to injection pump?
- fuel filter?
- fuel filter head - One time, my LS180 acted like the filter was plugged--changed filter--no change--ended up taking entire fuel filter housing off and cleaning out all the passages. There was some fine fiber material hung up in it plugging it. Don't how it got there, but it was the problem.
- also had a pickup tube in tank get plugged on another machine
Other thoughts/ideas/questions:
- Something funky with the "fuel shutoff solenoid (guts removed)"??
- Could pull injectors and do compression test.
- Slipped timing could allow it to turn over easier and not run well.
- Connection between turbo and intake manifold in good shape?
- Air filter? (Not likely, but had to ask--know a farmer who had dealer pickup his skid loader and haul it in because it wouldn't start--solution--air filter)
- When all ideas exhausted, left with taking injection pump and injectors to an injection pump shop.

I was also thinking, if I'm getting all that white smoke am I getting too much fuel? When it cranks over and try's to barely start and run it seems like it isn't getting fuel. It's confusing. I'm going to look at the fuel delivery system. I checked the injector supply and it shows steady flow. Maybe an injector is plugged or dumping too much fuel?? Not sure .

 

[Shanmar]

I was also thinking, if I'm getting all that white smoke am I getting too much fuel? When it cranks over and try's to barely start and run it seems like it isn't getting fuel. It's confusing. I'm going to look at the fuel delivery system. I checked the injector supply and it shows steady flow. Maybe an injector is plugged or dumping too much fuel?? Not sure

Very generally, too much fuel=darker smoke; some, but not enough fuel=white; uncomplete combustion=white with blue tint (think cold engine at startup).

 

[Nik79]

Very generally, too much fuel=darker smoke; some, but not enough fuel=white; uncomplete combustion=white with blue tint (think cold engine at startup).

Thanks for the guide. Hope to work on it this week. Still nice here in WI for a while I hope.

 

[Nik79]

Thanks for the guide. Hope to work on it this week. Still nice here in WI for a while I hope.

Update!!

So I finally got time to do a compression test. I turned over the engine and get a reading of 0. Is this even possible, I checked all 3 cylinders, getting nothing. So the next question is does squirting oil in the cylinders even matter. I expected some kind of pressure. How is this machine evening running. Need some more ideas. Thanks, Nik

 

[foton]

Update!!

So I finally got time to do a compression test. I turned over the engine and get a reading of 0. Is this even possible, I checked all 3 cylinders, getting nothing. So the next question is does squirting oil in the cylinders even matter. I expected some kind of pressure. How is this machine evening running. Need some more ideas. Thanks, Nik

yeah you got something wrong there ,it would not run at 0 compression,no way at all. it should be in the 400 + psi area I would think.

 

[Nik79]

yeah you got something wrong there ,it would not run at 0 compression,no way at all. it should be in the 400 + psi area I would think.

Yeah I figured the injector probably has a check or something, was trying to get it out, it is wedged in there damn tight. I'll tackle it tomorrow.