Help-A-Newby... auxiliary hydraulics skidsteer hack

[Tazza]

Oops. Almost forgot the other cool part.

It's just band-aid & bubblegum right now, but I'll do a proper job of it soon. I was thinking it would be good to machine a manifold block for the ends to make it solid. But it's there and all connected. Soon I'll be able to try that little auger out.
Also have a little story. I got to use the machine right before I dug into this valve:
Next-door neighbor had three tree trunks to load onto a trailer for milling into lumber. The last one was pretty large so I flipped the bucket at it to roll it near his trailer. Then we chained it under the bucket to lift it. The machine has enough poop for the job but not enough fat, so the neighbor and his dad both stood on the back of the machine and that was enough mass to keep the machine from tipping forward. I guess that means I've now tested the power of the hydraulics to its limit because I went past the tipping point, and the auxiliary weight plates are attached on the back already. I feel pretty good about how the machine worked for that.

Looks good, getting really close now.
I have had the same situation with placing a concrete pipe. I had my dad hanging off the rear door to stop it tipping over.

 

[vinito]

Looks good, getting really close now.
I have had the same situation with placing a concrete pipe. I had my dad hanging off the rear door to stop it tipping over.

Thanks Tazza. I'm glad it looks good to a learned eye.
While digging into disassembling the linkages I discovered that the center box that encloses and supports it all was in pretty bad shape and all wiggly. I was able to work on it today though. Two of the four bolt holes for securing it to the deck were wallowed out so bad the head of the bolts slipped through and the remaining two had cracks around them. The thing was barely hanging on and the wobbly tower further worsened the rigidity of the controls. I cut out the two bad holes and welded in some new material and welded the other cracks back together. So it's all back to good now.
It had been repainted and faded and for some reason a previous owner had sprayed splitches of a third ugly contrasting color randomly on it (I suppose to coat rusty spots). So once the structure was back together I then blasted the paint off the outside of the box. It's now in the shop warming up in preparation for a quick paint job which I'll get done tonight. None of the machine is pretty, but this box was the worst of it so at least it will bring it up a notch and be a bit of a preview of the eventual complete liquid overhaul I plan to give it in the next year or two.
Here's a patch. Nothing awesome, but it's fixed.

Here's the box on its side:

 

[vinito]

Thanks Tazza. I'm glad it looks good to a learned eye.
While digging into disassembling the linkages I discovered that the center box that encloses and supports it all was in pretty bad shape and all wiggly. I was able to work on it today though. Two of the four bolt holes for securing it to the deck were wallowed out so bad the head of the bolts slipped through and the remaining two had cracks around them. The thing was barely hanging on and the wobbly tower further worsened the rigidity of the controls. I cut out the two bad holes and welded in some new material and welded the other cracks back together. So it's all back to good now.
It had been repainted and faded and for some reason a previous owner had sprayed splitches of a third ugly contrasting color randomly on it (I suppose to coat rusty spots). So once the structure was back together I then blasted the paint off the outside of the box. It's now in the shop warming up in preparation for a quick paint job which I'll get done tonight. None of the machine is pretty, but this box was the worst of it so at least it will bring it up a notch and be a bit of a preview of the eventual complete liquid overhaul I plan to give it in the next year or two.
Here's a patch. Nothing awesome, but it's fixed.

Here's the box on its side:

More progress.
Got the box painted and also received the new ball joint ends today.

I'll let it dry through tomorrow since that's new year's eve and I'll be able to put it back together on Friday. That finally allows me to start 'er up, bleed the air out and try out the new valve, and immediately after the successful result (fingers crossed) I can hook up the auger and try that out too.
It's almost time for a short video !!
And by the way, I know there's a specific process to start up a hydrostat drive once you're into it, i.e. emptied it out and putting it back into service. But as far as I know for this valve and the new aux. lines, since it's simply hydraulic cylinders or motor with no charge pump, all I need to do is start it up and let the fluid flow to bleed the air out. Is that correct? Since the hydraulics are assembled I'd prefer not to take anything back apart unless it's actually necessary to do so. In other words, even though there may be a "better way", if just getting the fluid flowing to purge the air will work, then I'd like to stick with that. Otherwise, please correct me. Thanks.

 

[Tazza]

More progress.
Got the box painted and also received the new ball joint ends today.

I'll let it dry through tomorrow since that's new year's eve and I'll be able to put it back together on Friday. That finally allows me to start 'er up, bleed the air out and try out the new valve, and immediately after the successful result (fingers crossed) I can hook up the auger and try that out too.
It's almost time for a short video !!
And by the way, I know there's a specific process to start up a hydrostat drive once you're into it, i.e. emptied it out and putting it back into service. But as far as I know for this valve and the new aux. lines, since it's simply hydraulic cylinders or motor with no charge pump, all I need to do is start it up and let the fluid flow to bleed the air out. Is that correct? Since the hydraulics are assembled I'd prefer not to take anything back apart unless it's actually necessary to do so. In other words, even though there may be a "better way", if just getting the fluid flowing to purge the air will work, then I'd like to stick with that. Otherwise, please correct me. Thanks.

To bleed it, just run it.
You may find that it will bleed faster if you run it, then stop and let it sit for the bubbles to settle out in the hydraulic tank.
Avoid extending or retracting cylinders to their ends if possible. When you do on a system with air in it, you get cavitation, the bubbles implode and can cause damage. They basically work like a shaped explosive charge. As they implode, they create a jet that can erode metal. It won't cause an issue when doing it a few times, only when it's done for long periods of time.

 

[vinito]

To bleed it, just run it.
You may find that it will bleed faster if you run it, then stop and let it sit for the bubbles to settle out in the hydraulic tank.
Avoid extending or retracting cylinders to their ends if possible. When you do on a system with air in it, you get cavitation, the bubbles implode and can cause damage. They basically work like a shaped explosive charge. As they implode, they create a jet that can erode metal. It won't cause an issue when doing it a few times, only when it's done for long periods of time.

My Mom's been kinda sick for several days so I've been spending most of my time helping her out. But I needed to unwind at the end of the days so I took a stab at little parts of the loader just before bed. That worked pretty well, which was surprising to me.
True to form, once I dug into the magic cube containing all the control levers and such, I found several items sitting there all wide-eyed and begging for my attention.... kinda like a box of puppies.
I trudged forth and fixed everything, so that was just a brilliant opportunity more than anything else. So now all the control rods are new - every one of the old ones had beat up threads and amateur weld attempts and the like on them, and the valve switch necessitated new rod lengths for that anyway. The rod ball ends are all new too. There is a kind of friction bar to hold the drive lever in position which had come totally detached and was just flailing around inside which I fixed up to work well again. The centering springs for the drive lever were way to large and way to strong which made it pretty hard on your wrist to try to turn the dang thing. A handful of other boring details. All that is fixed. yaaay.
I just now carefully started it up, being prepared to switch it right back off if it started lurching around or something. No such disaster. It started up without any odd motions, so I slowly moved the drive lever around and it worked predictable, and sooooo much easier with the fixed spring issue and sooooo much more control with the worn out connectors replaced. It worked before, but I think it's going to be much more pleasurable now.
Then I turned my attention to the bucket controls. Oh man these are sweet! The old valve just felt kinda " soggy" and sticky compared to the new one. Comparing the two, this new one is simply effortless. And like the drive levers, there is almost zero play now so combined with the freer, lighter feel, it's a lot easier to control. Also, the center detent is snappier even though it has lighter motion, so it just gives an all-around more solid feel and experience.
It got dark on me for tonight, but tomorrow I'm going to take it for a longer outdoor spin and hook up & try out the auger, which is all ready to go as well.
I'll undoubtedly need more in the future, but thanks to all for the advice and encouragement so far. A little success sure makes for a great day. I'll post a picture or two tomorrow.

 

[Tazza]

My Mom's been kinda sick for several days so I've been spending most of my time helping her out. But I needed to unwind at the end of the days so I took a stab at little parts of the loader just before bed. That worked pretty well, which was surprising to me.
True to form, once I dug into the magic cube containing all the control levers and such, I found several items sitting there all wide-eyed and begging for my attention.... kinda like a box of puppies.
I trudged forth and fixed everything, so that was just a brilliant opportunity more than anything else. So now all the control rods are new - every one of the old ones had beat up threads and amateur weld attempts and the like on them, and the valve switch necessitated new rod lengths for that anyway. The rod ball ends are all new too. There is a kind of friction bar to hold the drive lever in position which had come totally detached and was just flailing around inside which I fixed up to work well again. The centering springs for the drive lever were way to large and way to strong which made it pretty hard on your wrist to try to turn the dang thing. A handful of other boring details. All that is fixed. yaaay.
I just now carefully started it up, being prepared to switch it right back off if it started lurching around or something. No such disaster. It started up without any odd motions, so I slowly moved the drive lever around and it worked predictable, and sooooo much easier with the fixed spring issue and sooooo much more control with the worn out connectors replaced. It worked before, but I think it's going to be much more pleasurable now.
Then I turned my attention to the bucket controls. Oh man these are sweet! The old valve just felt kinda " soggy" and sticky compared to the new one. Comparing the two, this new one is simply effortless. And like the drive levers, there is almost zero play now so combined with the freer, lighter feel, it's a lot easier to control. Also, the center detent is snappier even though it has lighter motion, so it just gives an all-around more solid feel and experience.
It got dark on me for tonight, but tomorrow I'm going to take it for a longer outdoor spin and hook up & try out the auger, which is all ready to go as well.
I'll undoubtedly need more in the future, but thanks to all for the advice and encouragement so far. A little success sure makes for a great day. I'll post a picture or two tomorrow.

Always good when a repair go better than expected. Sometimes, even the small things make a huge difference, especially wear in control linkages. When fixed, they operate so much better and with more precision.

 

[vinito]

Always good when a repair go better than expected. Sometimes, even the small things make a huge difference, especially wear in control linkages. When fixed, they operate so much better and with more precision.

This turned out to be kind of a long thread with all the posts I guess. Well now I guess it has finally concluded since the original title referred to "auxiliary hydraulics skidsteer hack" and that has been accomplished. Big Yaaaaay !!!
Of course I have several other plans going in my head, but most of them are additional attachments and a couple upgrades so I'll let you know how those go in their own threads.
The new controls are great! The bucket controls are not only easier to work now, but it also solved my dropping bucket problem! With the old valve the bucket would drop probably 6 inches in one minute ("yow!"). I didn't know whether it was cylinder seals or a valve problem, so now I guess I know. It's been out there with the bucket and auger hanging off it for over 10 minutes and it hasn't dropped even 1/8". That's better than I hoped.
And I tested the auger out. I'm happy to report that it worked fantastic for the little test I gave it. The soil I tested is not dry, not packed tight, and not heavy clay so it certainly wasn't any kind of extreme test. There weren't any roots or rocks that I could see either and of course encountering those will be inevitable and a better test as well. But I got it spinning, lowered it into the dirt and it just drive right in and didn't show any signs of straining once it was lifting the dirt up. I know that doing the same with a human-powered post hole digger would have taken me 20 minutes minimum and this auger just took seconds to go 4 feet deep. Most excellent in my opinion.
It does spin somewhere close to 2 times per second, which is probably a little fast. If a harder test shows that it's a little weaker than I'd like, then those post hole digger gear reducers I saw, which give about a 3:1 reduction, ought to tweak that down just about perfect to get me more torque. I won't count on needing that though until and unless it actually falls short in practice. It might just turn out to be fine. After all, in my case I probably won't be augering any larger than the 8" one that is on it already so it doesn't need as much torque as some.
Here's a couple snapshots as of a couple minutes ago. Nothing all that illuminating, but at least it's evidence that I got it re-assembled. You can see my temporary auxiliary hydraulics control lever sticking out under the right side of the seat if you look close.

Here it is after poking a 4-foot-deep hole into the dirt. Sorry I drove it back into the driveway after, but I'm sure I'll snap some more interesting pics when the opportunity arises.

 

[Tazza]

This turned out to be kind of a long thread with all the posts I guess. Well now I guess it has finally concluded since the original title referred to "auxiliary hydraulics skidsteer hack" and that has been accomplished. Big Yaaaaay !!!
Of course I have several other plans going in my head, but most of them are additional attachments and a couple upgrades so I'll let you know how those go in their own threads.
The new controls are great! The bucket controls are not only easier to work now, but it also solved my dropping bucket problem! With the old valve the bucket would drop probably 6 inches in one minute ("yow!"). I didn't know whether it was cylinder seals or a valve problem, so now I guess I know. It's been out there with the bucket and auger hanging off it for over 10 minutes and it hasn't dropped even 1/8". That's better than I hoped.
And I tested the auger out. I'm happy to report that it worked fantastic for the little test I gave it. The soil I tested is not dry, not packed tight, and not heavy clay so it certainly wasn't any kind of extreme test. There weren't any roots or rocks that I could see either and of course encountering those will be inevitable and a better test as well. But I got it spinning, lowered it into the dirt and it just drive right in and didn't show any signs of straining once it was lifting the dirt up. I know that doing the same with a human-powered post hole digger would have taken me 20 minutes minimum and this auger just took seconds to go 4 feet deep. Most excellent in my opinion.
It does spin somewhere close to 2 times per second, which is probably a little fast. If a harder test shows that it's a little weaker than I'd like, then those post hole digger gear reducers I saw, which give about a 3:1 reduction, ought to tweak that down just about perfect to get me more torque. I won't count on needing that though until and unless it actually falls short in practice. It might just turn out to be fine. After all, in my case I probably won't be augering any larger than the 8" one that is on it already so it doesn't need as much torque as some.
Here's a couple snapshots as of a couple minutes ago. Nothing all that illuminating, but at least it's evidence that I got it re-assembled. You can see my temporary auxiliary hydraulics control lever sticking out under the right side of the seat if you look close.

Here it is after poking a 4-foot-deep hole into the dirt. Sorry I drove it back into the driveway after, but I'm sure I'll snap some more interesting pics when the opportunity arises.

They sure dig fast, I know the holes I have dug with mine would have taken me days to do..
Glad you are happy with it, even if it doesn't have masses of power if ti works for you, it's enough.

 

[hydra-mac-8b]

They sure dig fast, I know the holes I have dug with mine would have taken me days to do..
Glad you are happy with it, even if it doesn't have masses of power if ti works for you, it's enough.

Can you post up the valve combination (part numbers/ details) that you ended up using? thanks.

 

[ryantowry_81]

Can you post up the valve combination (part numbers/ details) that you ended up using? thanks.

Glad to hear it worked with the little machine! I am planning a fence project for later this year so it might be the reason to convince the wife to let me build one.

 

[vinito]

Glad to hear it worked with the little machine! I am planning a fence project for later this year so it might be the reason to convince the wife to let me build one.

I posted this in another thread but I ought to answer the valve question here too.
The new valve was this one: (link) It's from Surplus Center and they have about the best price out there for this valve... I looked around. And they'll stand by it too like a good brick & mortar does, which for me means that I can return it if unmolested for any reason at all, or if it's defective they'll replace it. So cheap and with service is a good deal I think.

 

[vinito]

I posted this in another thread but I ought to answer the valve question here too.
The new valve was this one: (link) It's from Surplus Center and they have about the best price out there for this valve... I looked around. And they'll stand by it too like a good brick & mortar does, which for me means that I can return it if unmolested for any reason at all, or if it's defective they'll replace it. So cheap and with service is a good deal I think.

Sorry, I left out some important info.
If you click on that link above, you have to choose which spools to include. For the spools I chose D section with float for one (for lift) and B section with spring to center for the other two (for tilt and aux.). Pretty standard for skidsteers, but there are several to choose from with other add-on options if you so desire. Also, since it's a stack, if you want to add another spool for some reason in the future or change the end blocks or whatever, you just buy what you need and a longer bolt kit if there are more sections, and you just slip it in and it will go right back together.