looking for some help on a problem in this cold weather, I have a LX 865 been parked for a few weeks, in below freezing temps went to use it today and left side drive works, but right side doesn't budge an inch> I left motor run a bit hoping maybe heat from it would thaw anything frozen up< after 15 minutes, NO go so took a torpedo heater and left that run about a half hr, and, she was back to working I am new to these machines and never worked on one really,. and NO great MR fix it This past Aug, I had a local NH dealer, change ALL fluids as if doing a 500 hr service, which was supposed to have included drive fluids but at this point I am thinking they didn;'t do what they charged me for?/ SO question is, HOW do I solve this problem, what and where do I have to drain fluids from I don't have a shop on site and don't have away to move machine right now, its parked under a small 3 sided building with a gravel floor, that just fits the machine in it with NOT much room on either side? I am sure if I need to use again, I can just heat up again as I did, but I prefer a better fix if its something simple I can do? can anyone explain what all I need to do?? Machine ran just fine for about an hr after I got it free'd up too>
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Hotrod1830
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deaop06 is right, I would suspect water somewhere.
If large amounts of water are present, the hydro fluid should appear "milky".
Often overlooked is the chain case. Get it up above freezing temps and drain it(water will drain first). If ANY water comes out, keep it warm for at least a day with the drain plug removed to let all the ice thaw before you refill it.
FWIW, the last skidsteer I purchased had the chaincase completly full of water, thanks to someone power washing trying to clean it up to sell.
thanks, so I gather then the dealer that said they replaced all the fluids, lied to me??, as Skid steer was only used about 30 hrs IF that since the service and been under a roof since , NO power washer near t,, not even a garden hose to be honest! I kinda felt like this dealer did a crappy job as it was now this?? rather confirms that they just took my money and did crap as I felt?? got it back with two covers not installed right and lines pinched in between covers too?? charged me to drain and flush rad and yet, never did that too, as on my bill they reported only using 1/2 gallon of coolant, yet on top of work order they had in large bold print, flush and refill rad/system>/ so, NOT sure what they did there?? coolant looked old when I got it back?/, I drained and refilled myself to be sure?? URGH?? sucks paying for work and getting crappy service! anyhow, can anyone tell me where the drain plug is,(right side drive side) and iI have to think there is one for one for the left and right side?? yes/no?? as left side worked fine, so have to think it wasn't in whole system, just the right side? and only thing that didn;t work was the left drive< all other hydraulic's worked fine ! it is sure going to be hard to drain now, as temps at night are well below freezing and NO idea when they won't be, Maybe in March , winter is just getting here, and NO heated shop again I can warm it up pretty good with the torpedo heater and HOPE most comes out? but ? it was almost 35 today here?? and don't see much higher temps really from here out for a while! and temps drops fast as soon as the sun sets and takes a LONG time to warm up have about 2 inches of ice on the ground from snow that got rained on? wish that would melt, nothing like trying to walk on thick ice at a angle, as whole place is sloped it seems, every step moves me about 6 ft, down hill way! Thanks again, and if anyone can lead me to the drain plug location, that would be a big help any covers have to come off?? I see there is a plate cover between the two wheels, and what looks like MAYBE a drain just behind the front wheel on the right side?
Do not be too hard on your dealer because the problem you are having is not in his control. What has probably happened is there is water in the parking brake which is located in the gearboxes on each side. Changing the oil in the gearboxes will not get rid of the water in the gearbox brake housing. The brake housing is separate from the rest of the gearbox except for a small hole for the oil to pass to through to the brake housing. What NH did was put a circular magnet aournd this hole to keep metal from entering the gearbox from the brake housing. Works great for that purpose, but over the years sludge builds up and blocks the oil passage hole. The oil no longer can pass into the brake housing and condensation builds up in the brake housing and in cold weather will freeze which lock the brakes like the parking brake is applied. ..........Only on the early models could the gearbox oil be changed but as I stated this will not get rid of the water. The later models share oil with the chain case. If you have the shared oil models it is possible water passed into the gearbox from the chain case, but again changing the chain case oil will not rid the gearbox of the water in the brake housing.
Forgot to say, the only way to get rid of the water is to remove the hydro motor on that side and the brake cover plate and clean the housing out. You will see what looks like fuzz against the inner housing side. This is the oil passage. Be sure to clean this out so oil can enter the housing. On a 865 the job is not that difficult but would be easier if the cab was tilted forward. Remove the steering lever centering mechanism in the center. Remove the plate the centering mechanism was fastened to . Remove the hydro hoses on that motor. remove the two bolts holding the hydro motor and remove the motor. remove the four bolts holding the cover plate and the supporting plate. Remove the gear and brake discs. Clean out the housing and reassemble.
thanks for all that info, the machine is a 1999 yr model, and that makes more sense to me then on where its freezing up, as it sort of felt like the brake was locked up on that side/ as for that repair, that's well past my ability's I think on repairs, I am not the best at fixing things, or should say getting things back together, have too many issue's with problems with my hands and just cannot do a lot of work on things, plus with the cold temps and no shop, its not helping any idea on what a shop might charge to do this service?/ I am also in need to get a front tilt cylinder rebuilt too, was holding off on that till warmer weather too, but if I need to get it to a shop for this ,might as well get that done too but would be interested in a ball park price if possible? don't have any shops really near by, so I will be paying to have it hauled there as well?? NOT a bill I was hoping for right now, but> is what it is I guess?
I just got my 2002 ls180 back from the dealer. I had the same problem. They suggested water in the chain case, so I drained both sides with no luck. Then they said must be in the brake housing. so I dropped it off. Long story short. They never found any water anywhere, said they checked the brake housing for moisture, but I know they never pulled a hydro motor. Gave it back unfixed and charged me $500. Hope you have better luck than me. But at $120/hr I would have to think it would be $1000-1500 if they pull hydro motor etc. . Just a guess though.
thanks for the info and your costs adn well, sadly, you didn;t get it fixed I gather by dealer? that's what I worry about, spending more money and it still being a same problem when it gets cold again. Been asking a local equipment operator that says his friend does work on the side, , so, if he can get the time, he said , he will come pick it up and have a look at it for me and let me know numbers before getting into things too far it warmed up to about 40 degree's for 2 days and I moved it and all seemed great, then it dropped into the low 20's and BOOM, no go again on the same side, so I am sure there is water in something on the right side, brakes, or?? that is icing up and preventing it from moving it feels more like brakes frozen up frustrating, when you buy something with HOPES to use at a certain time of yr(snow work) and it doesn't work when you want it ?? I think if I had a warmer shop to keep it in, it wouldn't be a issue, or a known one but being outside in a 3 sided building, exposed to wind and all, it freezing up killed the Battery, but replaced that, and even the new battery seems to struggle when its below 20 degree's, I keep it on a battery tender too, anyone know what the voltage should be when running at a little over idle?? I am only getting a reading of 12.8 volts on the lcd display while running, I would think it should be a little higher or am I wrong??
Would it be possible to hang a light bulb in there and cover engine compartment with a tarp
I doubt a light bulb would make any where near enough heat to do anything with temps in the teens or lower and then add in wind chills BUT, was out of town today and stopped in a local NH dealership and decided to ask what they think they pulled up there service repair manual on there screen and looked into things, and told me there shouldn't any what the brakes can freeze up, BUT each side has a chain case reservoir , and MOST likely that is where the water is at, its in there and not allowing things to move, they told me there is a fill hole in front /behind a tire on each side,(even they couldn;t tell from the screen and picture on it, so?) and that there is a simple drain plug in the belly pan right below or near the full plug, they also told me MOST likely the dealer that did or was supposed to DO the service, never did and screwed me, and this was by counter guy and the tech they brought out to offer me some advice!, VERY nice folks, wish they were closer to me, but 200 miles away, not worth the trip! or since I don't have a trailer any how! he said I should be able to once things warm up, back the rear tires up on a block and raise the front with bucket and drain, as long as drain plug isn't all boogered up, which he says MIGHT be why the dealer never drained, couldn;t get plug out! sop they just SAID they did and charged me for the service! so, calling for low 40's MAYBE on Thursday here, so if things warm up, I will give that a try, or use the torpedo heater to get it melted again and then try that, IF I cannot get the drain plug out, I will try using a hand pump to suck the fluid out, as I would guess the water will be on the bottom, so, should be able to get a bunch of it out any ways and can maybe flush a few times like this to try and get the most out, IF drain plug doesn't come out?? WILL update as I know more after I try? simple 10/30 oil he told me is all that goes in it??
If there is water in the chain case just remove level plug on the side of the chain case. Water in the oil will make the oil appear a cream color. Remove the level plug and see what color the oil is. The oil should be a dark color since it is 80-90 oil. If you can not get the plug out at the front bottom of the chain case, just remove the side panel and pump and swab out the chain cases. If you have water in the chain case you will have water in the gearbox and parkling brake housing since they share the same oil. Water can get into the brake housing for I have seen it. The chain case did not show any indication of water, so I can only assume the water came from condensation and since the cross over hole was blocked the the brake housing could not breathe to evaporate the water.
The side panel is the plate on the side of the chain case. Nothing will come out of place by removing the side plate and if you have water entering the chain case it is possible the water is coming from the side plate not being sealed to the chain case anymore. It is a quick job to remove the side plate and I would do that if the oil is a cream color.
Mike, I tried to remove that side plate cover the day it was all frozen up the first time,and for the life of me, I couldn't get it off, its sealed on there with some kind of sealant I tried prying on edges with a screw driver too and no go, it was in low teens and didn't screw with it too much, and gave up, as I also wasn't sure what all was behind it and didn';t want to make more problems than I had/have! I am NOT a big MR fix it type, so I always caution on the side of better not go too far till I know more! SO< if I manage to get that plate/cover off, nothing to worry about getting back on, all nuts are fixes, so once bolts are out NO worries to get back on as for the fill plug on the lower right side behind the front tire, about 4-5 inches up off the bottom of the belly say. OIL should come out of then when I remove it?? I was told it was the fill hole, so do you just fill till it comes out of that when on level ground? as I was told the drain plug in on the very bottom of the belly pan I haven't had a chance to go look at it, had a major ice storm last night so everything is ice here now also I was told it takes plain 0-30 wt oil, to fill back up I was thinking if I cannot get the drain plug out, that MAYBE I can stick hose down the fill hole and a hand transfer pump to suck out the fluids?? would this maybe work and any clue on HOW much fluid should be in there, is there lot of only a little?? I have NO clue, so any help/info would again be appreciated, IF all goes well, here, plan to try fixing on Friday, so thanks in advance
Let's start at the beginning because I may have assumed you have a newer loader then you have. When the L865, lx865 and lx885 were introduced the gearbox oil was separate from the chain case. These models used 10w30 in the chain case and 80-90 in the gearboxes. To determine if you have an early machine look at where your heel of your foot would be when sitting in the loader. An early machine will have what appears to be a cap sticking out from the side kick panels a few inches above the bottom. This is a dipstick for the gearbox. There is one on each side. Later machines were setup with a hole in the side of the gearbox so oil from the chain case could enter the gearbox. These machines used 80-90 oil in the chain case since they also lubricated the gearbox. Since you state the fill plug is 4-5 inches up I would think you have a later machine. The oil level plug is also the fill plug. The side plates get stuck tight with the silicone. You may need to drive a screwdriver between the chain case and the plate to break them loose. Nothing is attached to the plate so you have no worries about anything coming out of place. I have removed the side plates and wiped the chain case clean when doing other work. If you are not mechanically inclined I would not try and remove the drain plugs since you may need to heat them to get them loose. You can try but do not strip the hex out of the plug of it does not want to come loose. I think it takes a 5/16" hex allen wrench.
OK thanks, I THINK its a 1998 yr model, if that helps, its serial # is 98789 I was a little off on the location of the fill plug, its only about 2 inches up off the belly pan, lower than I said above sorry was looking at a few pic's I had handy to double check things without being at the machine right now! as for the thing by your heal , I don't know for sure or not about that, will try and look tomorrow as will be at the property where its at, but only a few minutes, got call today, NOW have to be out of town the next two days, so< Plans of getting to work on it Friday might not be working out unless I can get back sooner than I now think?? today's ice storm threw a wrench into plans // as for the Hex head bolt, I have a decent tool set, so will try and see if it breaks free without too much force, if NOT do you think I can get say a 1/4 inch hose in there and suck the fluid/oil out that way> I have a few different hand transfer pumps that I can add different size lines/hoses to? ALL new line, so no worry about dirty crap getting into things from this?/ If I knew how to post a pic here I would, as maybe that would help too? but any idea on HOW Much fluid in in these cases? and if I CAN suck the fluid out the fill hole, do I still need to open the side plate cover? Thanks again, much appreciate the help
If you do not remove the side cover you will not get all the sludge out. If the oil does not appear to be creamy in color then there is no water in the oil. With the side cover off you can reach both the front and the back of the chain case, though it is tight. This way if you can not get the drain plug out you can at least pump the excess oil out and then wipe the chain case clean. If you do have a common reservoir with the gearbox, it will not be possible to get all the oil out of it. I can not remember if they left the drain plugs in the gearbox when they went to a common reservoir. If they are there the drain plugs will be at the very bottom on the front and rear side of the gearboxes. If you do drain these gearboxes and you have a common reservoir, you need to add oil back into the gearboxes before use because it take a long time for oil to enter the gearbox from the chain case.
Mike thanks again for the info and advice. Hate to sound like a dummy here, but I never worked on a skid steer before, so m all is new to me I was thinking if I couldn;'t get the drain plug out maybe I could suck the fluid /oil out with a hand pump and a hose This I gather is maybe NOT possible then? I was hoping to NOT remove that side cover simply due to temps here are not very warm and its NOT in a building to work on it it gets wet from blowing rain and snow, and NOT sure if I got that cover off I could get something to re seal it again, with low temps, most things need warm 60 degree air to dry right/seal so if Ic an leave it on, I would prefer, but if not then so be it I am thinking and please correct me if I am wrong here, but there is an actual chain that runs from front to rear wheel like that drive each side , yes or NO? this chain I gather runs in a case and then it HAS a drain plug that runs from this case thru the belly pan?? Is this correct?/ and has a fill plug(I am guessing the plug I see just behind the front tire! so the case the chain is in is from wheel to wheel long and a few inches tall like? would the whole case be filled with oil or only say like half of it, and chain runs in a oil bath like?? do I have this idea right? and next question would be back again to that option of using a hand pump to drain it if I was starting on level ground and backed the rear up onto a few blocks, say, about 5 inches up, making machine leave forward, would I maybe be able to drain out fill plug, till it doesn';t have enough and then use that hand pump?? as gravity would push it all towards front tire/ front of chain case like?? sorry again for all the questions, just trying to see what all is and things maybe I can do to get it done?? Might be back in town tomorrow and was almost 60 today, so HOPE any ice in it melted and about mid 30's tomorrow, so trying to get to it before things freeze up again I have 3 qt's of gear oil and 0/30 on hand, I would think when I get some out the smell of gear oil would tell me what one is in there or not? WIsh I could post pictures here??
First thing you need to determine is if there is water in the oil. Water in the oil will make the oil appear like cream, an off white or light brown. If the oil is dark then there is no water in the oil..........................There are only 2 plugs on the chain case. The drain plug at the very front of the chain case on the bottom side and the second is the fill\level plug on the side of the chain case behind the front wheel.....................There are two chains in the chain case. The gearbox shaft that goes into the chain case has a double sprocket. One drives the front wheel and the other drives the rear wheel...........................I do not like to see a loader blocked up on the wheels because the loader could roll. It happened to one time and one time was enough.........................I doubt you will get all the oil out by going through the fill\level plug but if that is the only way then give it a try...........................I am more concerned about the oil in the gearbox since you can not drain it I still think the problem is in the gearbox. The only way to tell for sure is to have the side cover off when the loader will not move and have someone watch if the double sprocket coming out of the gearbox into the chain case attempts to turn. There is enough slack in the chains for the sprocket to attempt to turn. If the sprocket does not turn at all then the problem is in the gear box. You could also jack the loader up on that side and see if you can rock the wheels. There should be some back and forth movement in wheel when you rock it.
