Bobcat 630 Reclamation

[Mikefromcny]

continued...
The required socket is 1.5". Plus tommy bar. Plus hammer.
Is there an easy way to pry the filter out? Eventually I used the spring with a screwdriver jammed in (gently) between the spring and filter and a long-nose gripping the spring to gently ease the filter out.
Anyway, here it is:

This really does not look that gunged up. If I hold it and fill the "bowl", almost no oil leaks out through the filter. Is this correct?
TIA

http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=61811 Peebeeaitch, get ahold of ancomcabs, hes got a smokin deal on some ignition parts parts from his 630

 

[peebeeaitch]

http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=61811 Peebeeaitch, get ahold of ancomcabs, hes got a smokin deal on some ignition parts parts from his 630

Thanks a stack, Mike from cny. Just sent off the request...

 

[peebeeaitch]

Thanks a stack, Mike from cny. Just sent off the request...

29 Dec 2012
ROPS off. Motor firewall off. Oil tank (original) and petrol tank (not so original) visible. I assume that the blue stuff is not sound deadening padding - the mice have also used this as a source of food as can be seen from the nibble marks:

While continuing my dig deeper into the machine, I came across this connector, which had been plugged into the oil pressure gauge:

The plug is not connected to anything. What is interesting is that the hydraulic oil pressure gauge shows some signs of motion - when turning on, the gauge remains at 0 till the engine fires up and then springs to 1/2 full range. I am now thinking that this gauge has been wired to indicate something else, maybe engine oil pressure or something.
The excavation of the machine innards continued and when I could finally access the motors, this is the pile of mulch that I had excavated from within the innards of the machine:

4 hours later, Valhalla:

Err, maybe not.
I am going to have to get hold of an old brake disk to make the special tool to remove the motors. Does anyone have a dimensioned drawing of one so that I can laser cut it? Or is there some other way other people have used?
I assume that this oil level is a little high? This would mean that there is leak by from the motor(s)?
As I am this deep into the machine, and clearly there are seal issues, would it be prudent to remove the pump and just do it as well while the machine is gutted?
How do I check if there is a master link on the drive chains? The manual says to remove the hydrauliuc hoses after breaking the chain, but the only way that I can see to check for a master is to remove the lines, turn the wheels by hand and check. Or is there some other way?
Any thoughts or opinions welcome...

 

[peebeeaitch]

29 Dec 2012
ROPS off. Motor firewall off. Oil tank (original) and petrol tank (not so original) visible. I assume that the blue stuff is not sound deadening padding - the mice have also used this as a source of food as can be seen from the nibble marks:

While continuing my dig deeper into the machine, I came across this connector, which had been plugged into the oil pressure gauge:

The plug is not connected to anything. What is interesting is that the hydraulic oil pressure gauge shows some signs of motion - when turning on, the gauge remains at 0 till the engine fires up and then springs to 1/2 full range. I am now thinking that this gauge has been wired to indicate something else, maybe engine oil pressure or something.
The excavation of the machine innards continued and when I could finally access the motors, this is the pile of mulch that I had excavated from within the innards of the machine:

4 hours later, Valhalla:

Err, maybe not.
I am going to have to get hold of an old brake disk to make the special tool to remove the motors. Does anyone have a dimensioned drawing of one so that I can laser cut it? Or is there some other way other people have used?
I assume that this oil level is a little high? This would mean that there is leak by from the motor(s)?
As I am this deep into the machine, and clearly there are seal issues, would it be prudent to remove the pump and just do it as well while the machine is gutted?
How do I check if there is a master link on the drive chains? The manual says to remove the hydrauliuc hoses after breaking the chain, but the only way that I can see to check for a master is to remove the lines, turn the wheels by hand and check. Or is there some other way?
Any thoughts or opinions welcome...

I have received no answers to some of my previous posts, so hopefully putting them upfront may spark some more knowledgable to help me out:
* I have tried to find out the specification for the chain size on my 630. Measuring the links and consulting a couple of sites, I believe it is ANSI 60. Is this correct?
* Please see the last photo, there are a couple of small slits in the "top" hydraulic line. Is this line worth replacing as it seems to be quite dry?
* Should I do the control valve seals as well? It is not a cost issue (I've read that the cost is about $15, it is the aggravation).
31 Dec 2012
I needed to drain the chaincase oil (obviously). Reading another forum, one very ingenious poster came up with the Suck Bucket. 40 litres of sharky oil later:

Clearly the sludge is equal opportunity (the rear of the case):

Clearly there is some unpleasant work ahead of me cleaning gunge.
I decided to rip the pump as reading some other posts it seemed likely that this needed some new seals. Note to others: take the manual's advice and do this with a chain block. I can barely lift this with one arm and so maneuvering this out of the confines of a (very) difficult to work on Bobcat is not pleasant. Combined with a very sticky coupling caused some choice words to be exchanged with the rafters.
After the choas, my little pipe-marking helper appeared (and provided a pretty handy visual scale: 1/2 height average Homo Sapiens Female Age 12 years = 1 Bobcat 630 hydraulic pump stack [both in height and probably more weight for the pump]):

For reference, I decided to subdue the coupler by taking a photo of it (it can never hide away in the darkness pretending to be more complex than it really is and wait for unsuspecting newbie's like me again):

Here the little beast's pintle setup (notice the plastic slide on the front ring is missing the retainer - I found the plastic spacer in the mulch between the motor and the pump):

So, now the final shot for the day (my arms are so sore I couldn't lift the camera for more anyway):

So now I'm waiting for the chain splitter, the master link, the seal kits, the new brass filter, and probably 20 different Torx sockets to get the correct one to remove the motors

 

[Tazza]

I have received no answers to some of my previous posts, so hopefully putting them upfront may spark some more knowledgable to help me out:
* I have tried to find out the specification for the chain size on my 630. Measuring the links and consulting a couple of sites, I believe it is ANSI 60. Is this correct?
* Please see the last photo, there are a couple of small slits in the "top" hydraulic line. Is this line worth replacing as it seems to be quite dry?
* Should I do the control valve seals as well? It is not a cost issue (I've read that the cost is about $15, it is the aggravation).
31 Dec 2012
I needed to drain the chaincase oil (obviously). Reading another forum, one very ingenious poster came up with the Suck Bucket. 40 litres of sharky oil later:


Clearly the sludge is equal opportunity (the rear of the case):

Clearly there is some unpleasant work ahead of me cleaning gunge.
I decided to rip the pump as reading some other posts it seemed likely that this needed some new seals. Note to others: take the manual's advice and do this with a chain block. I can barely lift this with one arm and so maneuvering this out of the confines of a (very) difficult to work on Bobcat is not pleasant. Combined with a very sticky coupling caused some choice words to be exchanged with the rafters.
After the choas, my little pipe-marking helper appeared (and provided a pretty handy visual scale: 1/2 height average Homo Sapiens Female Age 12 years = 1 Bobcat 630 hydraulic pump stack [both in height and probably more weight for the pump]):

For reference, I decided to subdue the coupler by taking a photo of it (it can never hide away in the darkness pretending to be more complex than it really is and wait for unsuspecting newbie's like me again):

Here the little beast's pintle setup (notice the plastic slide on the front ring is missing the retainer - I found the plastic spacer in the mulch between the motor and the pump):

So, now the final shot for the day (my arms are so sore I couldn't lift the camera for more anyway):

So now I'm waiting for the chain splitter, the master link, the seal kits, the new brass filter, and probably 20 different Torx sockets to get the correct one to remove the motors

Nice write up and pictures of the work in progress.
You are already so far in, replacing the spool seals isn't a bad idea. Seals are cheap, but that is if you get them from your local hydraulic seal shop.

 

[Fabricator]

Nice write up and pictures of the work in progress.
You are already so far in, replacing the spool seals isn't a bad idea. Seals are cheap, but that is if you get them from your local hydraulic seal shop.

Not much help on the chain size. I'm assuming you want the size to get the master link for it? Like Tazza, I'd replace the seals if you're that far into it. You're going to kick yourself later for not doing it now. Likewise, I'd really consider replacing the hose if you have any question about it.

 

[Zorack]

Not much help on the chain size. I'm assuming you want the size to get the master link for it? Like Tazza, I'd replace the seals if you're that far into it. You're going to kick yourself later for not doing it now. Likewise, I'd really consider replacing the hose if you have any question about it.

Thanks for the write up and the pics on your rebuild....I guess maybe sometime in the future your daughter might be using that 630 when you get it going

 

[peebeeaitch]

Nice write up and pictures of the work in progress.
You are already so far in, replacing the spool seals isn't a bad idea. Seals are cheap, but that is if you get them from your local hydraulic seal shop.

Thanks Tazza. Ok, I almost convinced myself, but I think you've pushed me over the edge. I will look into it on Saturday.

 

[mahans7]

Thanks Tazza. Ok, I almost convinced myself, but I think you've pushed me over the edge. I will look into it on Saturday.

I saw the pictures of the "suck bucket" 5 gallon bucket with the 1/2" hose/shop vac and how well it worked. I guess that will be another project which really is ideal for draining the chaincase.

 

[Tazza]

I saw the pictures of the "suck bucket" 5 gallon bucket with the 1/2" hose/shop vac and how well it worked. I guess that will be another project which really is ideal for draining the chaincase.

Also, if your control block has a rubber hose from bottom that twists upwards, do it too. They crack on the 743s and are a nightmare to gain access to with the pump and control blok in place.

 

[peebeeaitch]

Thanks Tazza. Ok, I almost convinced myself, but I think you've pushed me over the edge. I will look into it on Saturday.

Thanks Fabricator. I am fairly sure it is 60 because this site (SR Business) provides a fairly comprehensive chain dimension document download.
I will replace the hose as well. However, the costs are now starting to stack up! Maybe the hose chaps will give me a New Year's break.
Zorack, thanks. My daughter is the prime candidate for operator position, after my wife. I fix, they work [I hope my wife doesn't read this comment else there will be other things which I will need to fix]

 

[peebeeaitch]

Thanks Fabricator. I am fairly sure it is 60 because this site (SR Business) provides a fairly comprehensive chain dimension document download.
I will replace the hose as well. However, the costs are now starting to stack up! Maybe the hose chaps will give me a New Year's break.
Zorack, thanks. My daughter is the prime candidate for operator position, after my wife. I fix, they work [I hope my wife doesn't read this comment else there will be other things which I will need to fix]

I manufactured my "suck bucket" from buckets and lids I bought at Menards. I gently heated the area destined for the vacuum port with a propane torch, until it became really soggy and then pressed the vacuum hose through. Same with the 1/2" port. I should have pressed the 1/2" hose from the outside and then flipped the lid over and done the vacuum from the "inside" - this will allow a little more oil into the bucket before starting to suck the oil into the shop-vac.
The advantage is that the plastic stretched and "flowed" to form a long extruded tube which seals very efficiently.
I fill up a bucket, take the lid off and place on another bucket - no decanting.

 

[jerry]

I manufactured my "suck bucket" from buckets and lids I bought at Menards. I gently heated the area destined for the vacuum port with a propane torch, until it became really soggy and then pressed the vacuum hose through. Same with the 1/2" port. I should have pressed the 1/2" hose from the outside and then flipped the lid over and done the vacuum from the "inside" - this will allow a little more oil into the bucket before starting to suck the oil into the shop-vac.
The advantage is that the plastic stretched and "flowed" to form a long extruded tube which seals very efficiently.
I fill up a bucket, take the lid off and place on another bucket - no decanting.

When the time comes for reassembly be sure to check the u joint coupler for wear, as you said the po did not believe in grease. It may cost a little to replace the u joints but can cost a lot more if they break while you are running it.

 

[peebeeaitch]

Thanks Fabricator. I am fairly sure it is 60 because this site (SR Business) provides a fairly comprehensive chain dimension document download.
I will replace the hose as well. However, the costs are now starting to stack up! Maybe the hose chaps will give me a New Year's break.
Zorack, thanks. My daughter is the prime candidate for operator position, after my wife. I fix, they work [I hope my wife doesn't read this comment else there will be other things which I will need to fix]

I cannot seem to find the specs for the Torx socket for loosening the drive motor bolts. I have up to an E16 socket. It seems close. Is it an E20 (the circumscribed circle diameter is 18.5mm)?
The nut for removing "The Block" from the pump stack seems to be 54mm AF. This is roughly a 2 1/8" wrench. Is this correct? Or should I just turn the thing over, clamp the nut in a vice and use the stack as a wrench?
The feed line from the reservoir to "The Block" is roughly 35mm AF. This is 1 3/8". Is this correct?
The motor to brake disk washer locking bolts are roughly 45mm AF. This is, again roughly, 1 3/4". Is this correct?
The Torx bit for separating the hydrostatic pumps from the manifold block is Torx E10, so there is some useful information for someone out there.
I want to burn the "wrenches" on the laser in this week so hopefully I will be able to complete the teardown this weekend.
Thanks in advance.
PBH

 

[peebeeaitch]

I cannot seem to find the specs for the Torx socket for loosening the drive motor bolts. I have up to an E16 socket. It seems close. Is it an E20 (the circumscribed circle diameter is 18.5mm)?
The nut for removing "The Block" from the pump stack seems to be 54mm AF. This is roughly a 2 1/8" wrench. Is this correct? Or should I just turn the thing over, clamp the nut in a vice and use the stack as a wrench?
The feed line from the reservoir to "The Block" is roughly 35mm AF. This is 1 3/8". Is this correct?
The motor to brake disk washer locking bolts are roughly 45mm AF. This is, again roughly, 1 3/4". Is this correct?
The Torx bit for separating the hydrostatic pumps from the manifold block is Torx E10, so there is some useful information for someone out there.
I want to burn the "wrenches" on the laser in this week so hopefully I will be able to complete the teardown this weekend.
Thanks in advance.
PBH

Thanks Jerry.
What is acceptable wear? This part is +-$100, so it's not an automatic replace item. If I "jiggle" it and feel nothing, especially after some grease, would you rate it as OK? (Opinion welcome and will not lead to a lawsuit).

 

[jerry]

Thanks Jerry.
What is acceptable wear? This part is +-$100, so it's not an automatic replace item. If I "jiggle" it and feel nothing, especially after some grease, would you rate it as OK? (Opinion welcome and will not lead to a lawsuit).

It's a double u joint , I think to get the right one from the dealer is in excess of 150. Check it before you grease it, wiggle it and twist it and it should not have any slack in the bearings. If there is a few thousandths slack keep it greased well. If in doubt take a couple of the bearing caps off to see if there are ridges worn in the bearing area of the cross. If there are it is on its way out. To replace or not depends on how you are going to use it and maintain it. Some worn parts will run a long time with proper care. Some worn parts will run a long time with proper care.

 

[peebeeaitch]

It's a double u joint , I think to get the right one from the dealer is in excess of 150. Check it before you grease it, wiggle it and twist it and it should not have any slack in the bearings. If there is a few thousandths slack keep it greased well. If in doubt take a couple of the bearing caps off to see if there are ridges worn in the bearing area of the cross. If there are it is on its way out. To replace or not depends on how you are going to use it and maintain it. Some worn parts will run a long time with proper care. Some worn parts will run a long time with proper care.

Thanks again Jerry. I'll check and then clean on the weekend as I'm mostly going to be waiting on parts anyway.

 

[peebeeaitch]

Thanks again Jerry. I'll check and then clean on the weekend as I'm mostly going to be waiting on parts anyway.

Ok, to confirm wrench sizes on a Bobcat 630:
Feed line from the reservoir to "The Block" is: 35mm (1 3/8") AF
Motor to brake washer disk locking bolts: 45mm (1 3/4") AF
Torx bit for separating the hydrostatic pumps is: Torx E12 (sorry, I said E10 before)
Torx bit for removing the motors is: Torx E20 - see this website for dimensions: Wiha Tools
Starting the motor removal and pump stripping tomorrow.

 

[peebeeaitch]

Ok, to confirm wrench sizes on a Bobcat 630:
Feed line from the reservoir to "The Block" is: 35mm (1 3/8") AF
Motor to brake washer disk locking bolts: 45mm (1 3/4") AF
Torx bit for separating the hydrostatic pumps is: Torx E12 (sorry, I said E10 before)
Torx bit for removing the motors is: Torx E20 - see this website for dimensions: Wiha Tools
Starting the motor removal and pump stripping tomorrow.

6 Jan 2013
Right, so failing to find a wrench for removal of the motor nuts, I made one at work. An hour after starting the job, the wrench was still marginally beautiful, but non-functional. So I made it functional.
Beautiful wrench:

Functional wrench:

Please also note that I decided to take no chances, or prisoners. The lower piece of equipment is my lever bar. Total length = 1.5 metres.
After undoing one nut, I managed to remove the brake disk. The manual is not joking when it says that there may not be enough space to remove both disks. So, after re-tightening the loosened nut, I managed to remove the other brake disk.
Now to split the chain.
Beautiful chain splitter:

Functional chain splitter:

Out came the chains. Now for the motors.
I had previously purchased (in a moment of supreme frustration), a complete set of (expensive) Torx bits (E very small to E very large). So, armed with these, I removed the top bolts of both motors. They say over-confidence is the feeling just before disastrous failure, so I clearly was over confident. The Torx bit would just not fit over the remaining 3 bolts on both motors. Honestly, why is it always the most easily reached bolt that is the easiest to remove?
I discovered the problem. It is a fact that a 14mm socket will, in fact, fit over a E20 bolt. It will also, almost invisibly, round the splines ever so slightly so that future attempts to fit an E20 will never work again.
The control valve that Tazza suggested I remove as well, was attached to the push-rods with this:

(Sorry for the bad photo). The connection is a master link from a chain. Is this correct? If it is, I will definately be improving on it; if not, it's just more of the same.
Half way to beer time:

(Thanks Tazza for the suggestion of removing the control block)
Please note that I have not, and did not, remove the sprockets as I did not have a press (more later).
I decided that the right motor was probably the one to strip as it was apparently OK. Better to have a visual reference for a "good" item. After a while I got to this:

This is the bearing housing of the motor. That 7 sided mark is the reason for the photo and I assumed more questioning from the forum was necessary.
Anyway, before the questions, I discovered another problem. A special tool is required to split the bearing housing from the front plate, the "MEL–1187 – 5/16'' Special Socket". Proud to be the owner of the previously mentioned external Torx set, I assumed that there was at least one socket that would do the job. Sadly the assumption is wrong. I eventually came to the conclusion that I should turn down the collar of the E10 socket so it would clear the flange. eBay time for a cheap 2nd hand socket.

 

[peebeeaitch]

6 Jan 2013
Right, so failing to find a wrench for removal of the motor nuts, I made one at work. An hour after starting the job, the wrench was still marginally beautiful, but non-functional. So I made it functional.
Beautiful wrench:

Functional wrench:

Please also note that I decided to take no chances, or prisoners. The lower piece of equipment is my lever bar. Total length = 1.5 metres.
After undoing one nut, I managed to remove the brake disk. The manual is not joking when it says that there may not be enough space to remove both disks. So, after re-tightening the loosened nut, I managed to remove the other brake disk.
Now to split the chain.
Beautiful chain splitter:

Functional chain splitter:

Out came the chains. Now for the motors.
I had previously purchased (in a moment of supreme frustration), a complete set of (expensive) Torx bits (E very small to E very large). So, armed with these, I removed the top bolts of both motors. They say over-confidence is the feeling just before disastrous failure, so I clearly was over confident. The Torx bit would just not fit over the remaining 3 bolts on both motors. Honestly, why is it always the most easily reached bolt that is the easiest to remove?
I discovered the problem. It is a fact that a 14mm socket will, in fact, fit over a E20 bolt. It will also, almost invisibly, round the splines ever so slightly so that future attempts to fit an E20 will never work again.
The control valve that Tazza suggested I remove as well, was attached to the push-rods with this:

(Sorry for the bad photo). The connection is a master link from a chain. Is this correct? If it is, I will definately be improving on it; if not, it's just more of the same.
Half way to beer time:

(Thanks Tazza for the suggestion of removing the control block)
Please note that I have not, and did not, remove the sprockets as I did not have a press (more later).
I decided that the right motor was probably the one to strip as it was apparently OK. Better to have a visual reference for a "good" item. After a while I got to this:

This is the bearing housing of the motor. That 7 sided mark is the reason for the photo and I assumed more questioning from the forum was necessary.
Anyway, before the questions, I discovered another problem. A special tool is required to split the bearing housing from the front plate, the "MEL–1187 – 5/16'' Special Socket". Proud to be the owner of the previously mentioned external Torx set, I assumed that there was at least one socket that would do the job. Sadly the assumption is wrong. I eventually came to the conclusion that I should turn down the collar of the E10 socket so it would clear the flange. eBay time for a cheap 2nd hand socket.

11 Jan 2013
"Used, good condition, 1/4" drive, external Torx E10 deep socket" arrives. Said deep socket does not fit.
12 Jan 2013
Remebering that the sockets I'd seen online, featuring a 12!! point system, fit almost all variations of bolt head shapes, I headed out to the store. Of course, the sets which contained 1/4" drive, 12 socket sets were sold out and after 1 hour of scrumaging, the only way I could find to get a 12!! point 5/16" socket was to buy the set - mind you, on special.
13 Jan 2013
Biblical hangover from the suprise birthday party. No progress.