430 Hydraulics are Weak

[TigerWebb30]

I have a 2006 430 that the hydraulics seem to be a little weak on. It does pretty good when digging but when you lift something with the thumb and try to pivot, sometimes it doesn't have enough power to pivot the machine. This is especially true if you are on any kind of a slope. Is this normal? Any suggestions on what to try? I'm not sure when the hydraulic filter was changed last. I have only had the machine about 2 months. Could the hydraulic filter make that big of a difference? The fluid reservoir is full so it is not low on fluid.

 

[Fishfiles]

My answer would be , True , a 430's hydraulics is weak to start with --------a hydraulic filter very seldom fixes anything except maybe making the filter change indicator light go out , there is a by pass if the filter where to clog up bad

 

[TigerWebb30]

My answer would be , True , a 430's hydraulics is weak to start with --------a hydraulic filter very seldom fixes anything except maybe making the filter change indicator light go out , there is a by pass if the filter where to clog up bad

If weak hydraulics is an inherent problem with the machine, is there anything that can be done to make them better? My guess would be NO, but I don't know a lot about these machines.

 

[thetool]

Are you holding pressure with the thumb while trying to lift and swing? Just a thought.
It can be normal, depending on what kind of weight you're swinging, degree of slope and how far you're extended. If it requires a lot of pressure, flow and swing speed will drop, because of the compensating pump. It's easy to confuse slowness with weakness. You could however have a problem with swing relief, at the motor or valve. A good way to test is to set up so you have the same conditions swinging in both directions and see if it acts the same. If there is a problem, chances are it will be only one component and will fail when swinging in one direction only.
As far as the 430 being weak, I personally don't care for ZHS machines-you sacrifice a lot of performance for the convenience of not having to worry about swinging the counterweight into something, but they are as strong as just about any other on the market, IMO.

 

[TigerWebb30]

Are you holding pressure with the thumb while trying to lift and swing? Just a thought.
It can be normal, depending on what kind of weight you're swinging, degree of slope and how far you're extended. If it requires a lot of pressure, flow and swing speed will drop, because of the compensating pump. It's easy to confuse slowness with weakness. You could however have a problem with swing relief, at the motor or valve. A good way to test is to set up so you have the same conditions swinging in both directions and see if it acts the same. If there is a problem, chances are it will be only one component and will fail when swinging in one direction only.
As far as the 430 being weak, I personally don't care for ZHS machines-you sacrifice a lot of performance for the convenience of not having to worry about swinging the counterweight into something, but they are as strong as just about any other on the market, IMO.

I'm just holding enough pressure to not drop whatever it is that I'm swinging with, but if you mean constantly holding the thumb control, then no I am not constantly holding the thumb control while trying to swing. Sometimes the machine won't swing at all if I am trying to swing uphill on an incline with a large object. Pulling the object in does help most of the time. It just seems to me that the power of the turn table is not proportional to the lifting and digging power of the machine. That is why I suspected a problem. The machine digs fairly well and can move some pretty good sized debris but it just doesn't seem to swing with much power at all. But, again, I've only had it a couple of months so I don't know a lot about it. It may just be normal operation for this machine. May not be a problem at all.

 

[thetool]

I'm just holding enough pressure to not drop whatever it is that I'm swinging with, but if you mean constantly holding the thumb control, then no I am not constantly holding the thumb control while trying to swing. Sometimes the machine won't swing at all if I am trying to swing uphill on an incline with a large object. Pulling the object in does help most of the time. It just seems to me that the power of the turn table is not proportional to the lifting and digging power of the machine. That is why I suspected a problem. The machine digs fairly well and can move some pretty good sized debris but it just doesn't seem to swing with much power at all. But, again, I've only had it a couple of months so I don't know a lot about it. It may just be normal operation for this machine. May not be a problem at all.

As I'm not much of an operator, I'll take your word that it dosen't feel right. I did some looking up and it seems that the relief is set kind of low for swing in relation to the other pressures. It varies between about 2100 and 2900 psi, depending on sn.
The way to test relief is with a gauge on the fitting on the pump, engage swing lock and swing over relief-if it's new and under warranty, the dealer can do this.
I recall a bad head-scratcher we had and it ended up being a peice of plastic in a pilot cap on the swing section of the control valve, keeping the spool from stroking all the way.
Only other thing I can think of, just throwing it out there-ZHS machines, without that counterweight, feel different in the swing--especially when on an angle, extended and heavy--gravity working against you, but there's no "help" on the other end.
But it seems to me that if you can pick it up, you ought to be able to swing it, even if it slows down due to high pressure.
I'd take it back in and have them check it.

 

[Land-Tech]

As I'm not much of an operator, I'll take your word that it dosen't feel right. I did some looking up and it seems that the relief is set kind of low for swing in relation to the other pressures. It varies between about 2100 and 2900 psi, depending on sn.
The way to test relief is with a gauge on the fitting on the pump, engage swing lock and swing over relief-if it's new and under warranty, the dealer can do this.
I recall a bad head-scratcher we had and it ended up being a peice of plastic in a pilot cap on the swing section of the control valve, keeping the spool from stroking all the way.
Only other thing I can think of, just throwing it out there-ZHS machines, without that counterweight, feel different in the swing--especially when on an angle, extended and heavy--gravity working against you, but there's no "help" on the other end.
But it seems to me that if you can pick it up, you ought to be able to swing it, even if it slows down due to high pressure.
I'd take it back in and have them check it.

I had the same feeling when I got my 435. The way older 331 is scary fast compared to the new one. went through the first seaon and had the dealer do a 12 month checkup. I asked the mechanic to check pressures, especially anything concerning the swing components.The 435 specs out with one of the slowest swing speeds but it had shown a weakness at extreme angles swinging up hill. A week later, the mechanic says the pressures are ok and the slow speed is due to the lack of a counterweight.The work order had a note that there were some hydraulic hoses were hooked up wrong from the factory and that the shop connected them correctly.Thes hoses were in the cooling fan circuit and would dog the engine when the fan came on. When I asked about if you could adjust anything to increase the swing power and he said he wasn't aware of anything. The lack of counterweight doesn't seem right cause the engine doesn't bog down when you run out of swing power like the other hydraulic circuits do when they have resistance. I lean towards a weak relief or circuit design. All the other functions have lots of power relative to engine rpm. Scott

 

[Bocephus]

I had the same feeling when I got my 435. The way older 331 is scary fast compared to the new one. went through the first seaon and had the dealer do a 12 month checkup. I asked the mechanic to check pressures, especially anything concerning the swing components.The 435 specs out with one of the slowest swing speeds but it had shown a weakness at extreme angles swinging up hill. A week later, the mechanic says the pressures are ok and the slow speed is due to the lack of a counterweight.The work order had a note that there were some hydraulic hoses were hooked up wrong from the factory and that the shop connected them correctly.Thes hoses were in the cooling fan circuit and would dog the engine when the fan came on. When I asked about if you could adjust anything to increase the swing power and he said he wasn't aware of anything. The lack of counterweight doesn't seem right cause the engine doesn't bog down when you run out of swing power like the other hydraulic circuits do when they have resistance. I lean towards a weak relief or circuit design. All the other functions have lots of power relative to engine rpm. Scott

next time you have it on a trailer, and close the your dealer, take it in and have them check the slew hyd. pressure. it could be low, and isnt that hard to adjust on the 430s, especially if it has a canopy rather than heated cab.

 

[BOBCATMAN]

CHECK THE DRIVE BELT TENSIONER AND SEE IF THE INDICATOR IS NOT STRAIGHT UP. IF YOU NEED TO ADJUST IT THE INSTRUCTIONS ARE ON THE POST TO YOUR LEFT WITH THE LEFT SIDE COVER RAISED.