Hello this is my first post on this forum. I found this site during many hours of trying to research my issue. I found several similar topics but not quite what i'm looking for. I acquired a kwik-way v-plow but I'm having troubles with the wiring. I installed the 14-pin harness from Bobcat because I want to run the plow with the buttons on the control levers. I can not find any wiring diagrams for the 14-pin harness, and from what I've researched there isn't one. That is not an issue as i just spent some time with a multi-meter to locate pins and their relationship to the switches on the control levers. The plow is a "v-plow" so each half of the blade moves independently. I want to run the left side of the blade from the left control lever and the right side of the blade from the right lever. I found the wiring pins for the "up/down" toggles and wired the plow to operate off of these. Here is my problem. The "up/down" toggles do not reverse the flow of the hydraulics when switched from up to down or vice-versa. Therefore, it does not matter which way I push the button the blade only moves one way. So... I thought I could use the "left/right" switches because they reverse the flow of the hydraulics as desired. However, the "left/right" switch on the right side control lever does not output 12v to any of the pins in the 14-pin connector. The left side does. Does this make sense? Sorry for lack of technical terminology. I am not an electrical, or hydraulic, expert. In summary here are my questions: 1. Should the "up/down" switches on the control levers reverse the hydraulic flow when pressed from up to down & vice-versa?? 2. Should the "left/right" switch on the right side control lever output 12v power to the 14-pin harness? Mine does not. Thank you so much for any help. I'm stuck!!
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TriHonu
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We have done a V-Plow conversion, however we did not add a 14 pin harness kit.
We used a 12v Selector Valve plumbed directly to the hydraulic cylinders on the plow. It has two In-Ports that attach to your Aux couplers and 2 pair of control ports. When the valve has no power the 2 In-Ports are connected to a pair of the control ports. You plumb these ports to the cylinder that controls one side of the plow.
With no power going to the valve you can control the angle of the blade by using the Aux hydraulics forward and reverse.
We used a momentary switch to power the solenoids on the valve. When you press the switch, the solenoids on the selector valve divert the In-Ports to the 2d set of control ports. These control ports are plumbed to the cylinder controlling the other side of the blade.
To operate the second side of the blade you press and hold the momentary switch while using the Aux hydraulics forward and reverse to control the angle of 2d side of the plow.
You are correct that the Left-Right rocker switch on the right handle will not power any pins on the 14-pin connector. It is wired to the Aux Hydraulic Valve to control hydraulic flow.
I found the following pin outs for the 14 pin connector over at HEF see CRAFT's Post. They are labeled on the connector if you look closely.
K- is a constant 12v (+positive) power
L- is sometimes required to have a jumper from K to feed back to the ACD (the jumper is done on the attachment side of the harness) … this depends on the type of attachment used
E & F - is on the left hand joystick the rocker switch up/down -#6 / #7
G & H - is on the right hand joy stick the rocker switch up/down - #8 / #9
C & D - is a left right rocker switch on the left hand joy stick - #4 / #5
B - is the ground (-Negative)
I don't know how many amps you can draw from the 14 pin harness without overloading it.
You may also want to view Bobcat Electrical Attachment Hookup Explained In Detail !!!
We have done a V-Plow conversion, however we did not add a 14 pin harness kit.
We used a 12v Selector Valve plumbed directly to the hydraulic cylinders on the plow. It has two In-Ports that attach to your Aux couplers and 2 pair of control ports. When the valve has no power the 2 In-Ports are connected to a pair of the control ports. You plumb these ports to the cylinder that controls one side of the plow.
With no power going to the valve you can control the angle of the blade by using the Aux hydraulics forward and reverse.
We used a momentary switch to power the solenoids on the valve. When you press the switch, the solenoids on the selector valve divert the In-Ports to the 2d set of control ports. These control ports are plumbed to the cylinder controlling the other side of the blade.
To operate the second side of the blade you press and hold the momentary switch while using the Aux hydraulics forward and reverse to control the angle of 2d side of the plow.
You are correct that the Left-Right rocker switch on the right handle will not power any pins on the 14-pin connector. It is wired to the Aux Hydraulic Valve to control hydraulic flow.
I found the following pin outs for the 14 pin connector over at HEF see CRAFT's Post. They are labeled on the connector if you look closely.
K- is a constant 12v (+positive) power
L- is sometimes required to have a jumper from K to feed back to the ACD (the jumper is done on the attachment side of the harness) … this depends on the type of attachment used
E & F - is on the left hand joystick the rocker switch up/down -#6 / #7
G & H - is on the right hand joy stick the rocker switch up/down - #8 / #9
C & D - is a left right rocker switch on the left hand joy stick - #4 / #5
B - is the ground (-Negative)
I don't know how many amps you can draw from the 14 pin harness without overloading it.
You may also want to view Bobcat Electrical Attachment Hookup Explained In Detail !!!
So, if I used a selector valve as you've mentioned, I could run the right side of the blade on the right control lever switch since there is no power? And then the left handle switch could run the left side of the blade and be wired to the coils on the selector valve? I'm pretty sure i'm following you. I may go this route. It looks like they draw less than 2A. I am strongly considering this option. I'd just have to do a little plumbing. Thank you! I appreciate the help.
TriHonu
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Question: Are you currently trying to use the plow control valve by by-passing the factory pump? Or are you trying to use the factory valve and pump?
If so, take a close read of the two links in my previous post. You will also need to compare that to the requirements of the valve on your plow. (I.E. what has to be powered to control the right side and what has to be powered to control the left side.) You may be able to find a solution. From my read, it sounds like you got one side working.
We did not use any of the factory pump/valves that were designed for the plow we converted. (The customer did not have them...)
Picture plumbing from your Aux couplers directly to one of the V-Plow cylinders. If you press the Aux Hydraulics switch once, you activate Intermittent Hydraulic Mode. This allows you to control the flow to the couplers by moving the rocker switch on the front of the Right Handle. Moving the switch left or right allows you to extend or retract that cylinder on the plow thus controlling one side of the V-Plow.
We added the Selector Valve that allows you to control two separate circuits (I.E. two separate cylinders).
Applying power to the Selector Valve opens the ports to the second set of control ports and closes the first set of control ports. This allows you to now control the second cylinder on the plow by moving the rocker switch on the Right Handle left or right which will now extend or retract the second cylinder on the plow.
You could wire the selector valve to your 14 pin connector to apply power to the Selector Valve from one of the switches on the left handle.
TriHonu
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Back to your original post:
In summary here are my questions:
1. Should the "up/down" switches on the control levers reverse the hydraulic flow when pressed from up to down & vice-versa?? - No. The wiring harness on the boom is connected to an Attachment Control kit. Bobcat has produced at least 3 versions of the "kit" over the years. The early 7 pin kit was connected to the optional switches on the steering lever handles. The Right Handle's Trigger Switch and Front Left-Right rocker switch are used to control the Aux hydraulic circuit. This harness simply provided switched 12v power to the pins in the electrical connector. This allowed attachments to have electrical solenoid valves controlling multiple hydraulic circuits on an attachment.
Many of these attachments used an open center valve and you put the loader Aux Hydraulics in Constant Flow mode that supplied continuous flow through the attachment control valve and back to the loader reservoir. You would then control the attachment with the other control handle switches.
The next system was the 14 pin which you can read about in the links I posted in my first post.
The newest 7pin system is a major change from the previous 2 systems. This system no longer provides switched 12v power. The new system is based on controller area network (CAN bus). It is basically a computer network that allows the computer in the loader to communicate with a microprocessor controller on the attachment. The wires are carrying data that tells the loader what attachment is connected and allows the loader to configure itself and tells the valves on the attachment when and how to operate via the operators signals from the switches on the control handles.
2. Should the "left/right" switch on the right side control lever output 12v power to the 14-pin harness? - No. This switch controls the Auxiliary Hydraulic Valve in the loader, allowing you to control the oil flow to the Aux couplers on the boom.
I wonder if there is data available so people can make an attachment to interface with the 7 pin connector. I have automated a casting machine using an Arduino micro controller, would be interesting if i could use the same to interface with the bobcat, not sure what i'd use it for though......
TriHonu
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Tazza, I have not found any technical info from Bobcat. They will sell you the parts to convert an attachment, however I doubt they would ever release the technical specs.
That said, I have found 3 different companies who have done the research and are selling kits that allow you to control non-Bobcat attachments.
Bobcat had to know that users that were buying new loaders would have numerous old-style attachments they would want to use. With the steep parts cost to convert older attachments, I am not surprised that some CANbus savvy engineers saw the need and developed more affordable interfaces. Researching what data is being sent is easy enough, however determining what data needs to be received by the loader would be the time consuming part.
Most attachments don't need the capabilities that CANbus can provide. Bobcat realized that to control any possible future attachment they needed to embrace the same technology most of the auto manufactures have adopted.
As a former Tech-Guy, I understand it, however it one more step towards users being bound to Bobcat for any service beyond basic maintenance. This is evidenced by the number of threads on this and other boards about AHC problems. Actuator problems leave the loader un-driveable and the only solution is to take it to a dealer so they can interrogate the computer and calibrate the new actuator.
No surprise that many users that operate far from dealer locations still desire the older machines without computer controls on the machine or engine.
Electronic controls will ultimately decrease the useable life of the machine. The mechanics may be useable but the electronics will have been rendered both obsolete and unavailable long before then...
I guess bobcat isn't the only one guilty with making changes so you must ues their gear before someone works a way out to copy it. It's a money making ploy.
I'm with you on the hand controls, i have never had a machine with it and never will. I don't need to be at the mercy of my dealer for repairs when the older style worked just fine, it is just more taxing on your body after a long day of work, but you get used to it.
I really don't see the need for all the fancy stuff canbus can offer for an attachment. In a car yes, it monitors so many dofferent things to keep you safe.
Wow thank you guys for the all the tips and suggestions!! so appreciated! I ended up taking your plan of attack and purchased a double selector valve just like the one in the link you provided. I was able to locate one in town so that made it easy. All I did was remove the solenoid valve that was on the plow and welded on a bracket to mount the new unit. Then i was able to adapt the 4 hoses and configure the wiring to the solenoids to operate off the left side "left/right" rocker switch. Now I am able to control each wing of the blade with the appropriate rocker switch on the respective control levers!!! THANK YOU!!!!! (I am trying to post pics and a vid but it won't let me. I probably don't have enough posts)
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab72/kasey200/Mobile Uploads/th_IMG_1456_zps5rbm8ezr.mp4
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab72/kasey200/Mobile Uploads/IMG_1460_zpsnsq4c5bp.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab72/kasey200/Mobile Uploads/IMG_1458_zpsbgv5koku.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab72/kasey200/Mobile Uploads/IMG_1457_zpsyphw5ra2.jpg
brandontamm
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Hi, Can you explain if you had a wiring harness and or controller to start or were these all items you purchased? I have no controller, no harness and 3 wires and hydraulics coming off my vplow. Need to figure out the 763 parts and the adapter going to the wiring for vplow that would all need to be added.
I want the equipment to run off my bobcat lever switches, but in the meantime, I have a left/right rocker switch mounted in the cab (from hardware store) to control the left or right hydraulic ram that is wired to the vplow with 3 wires and use normal hydraulic left/right that is built in to extend each chosen ram.
TriHonu
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Looks good Kasey! Glad you got it figured out. I'll bet you can't wait for the first snow.
The plow we configured was off a dump truck, about 11 foot wide or so. The owner is using it on a CAT 297C.
I was surprised to hear the owner uses it to maintain his gravel driveway in the summer. He sets both wings forward and sets the tips on each side of the road and raises hinge point a few inches higher than the road crown. It will pull in the shoulders and crown the road in one pass!
brandontamm
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Do you mean that the left handle rocker selects left and right, and the right rocker will control the in/out movement of the hydraulics, correct?
Since I don't have a factory harness or controller on my F-series 763 (never came with anything), I am using a hardware store boughten On/Off switch to select left/right ram and right handle rocker to control in/out hydraulic.
I'd like to set this up the way you did, but I suppose I'd need to add a controller and harness? Or I do see two plugs above the battery that look like they'd run to the handles - has anyone spliced directly off these to avoid the 14 pin harness? Do the 14 pin harnesses run directly to these plugs or is there a controller needed?
Can you post how you adapted the 14 pin to interface with the handles and or v-plow?
