Help with an S175

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And was that like that before you changed the seals?
If it drops that fast and you do not have a leak anywhere, then your seals are not correct installed.

I agree if you did the work and have the correct seals then this should not be happening. Did you do just the wiper seal or repack the rod end of the cylinder? If just the seals then you do have another issue. If you had the rod out of the cylinder and repacked that then You need to start over. Your rod is bypassing oil internally and that is why it drops now. Especially if it did not do it before. Hard to tell what you did and if there were mistakes made. Not sure this is what you want to hear but that's how I see it.

 

[cavedweller29]

And was that like that before you changed the seals?
If it drops that fast and you do not have a leak anywhere, then your seals are not correct installed.

Would both sides have to be bad to have drift like that or would it do it if one side was bad and one side was good?

I reinstalled the new ones in the same orientation as the old ones. I was a little concerned at the time because the piston seal seemed fairly loose after it was installed. I'm thinking I might have got mis sized seals or just typical chises junk....they were relatively cheap aftermarket . They weren't the cheapest but the were about 1/2 the cost of shipping bobcat branded seals.

 

[cavedweller29]

I agree if you did the work and have the correct seals then this should not be happening. Did you do just the wiper seal or repack the rod end of the cylinder? If just the seals then you do have another issue. If you had the rod out of the cylinder and repacked that then You need to start over. Your rod is bypassing oil internally and that is why it drops now. Especially if it did not do it before. Hard to tell what you did and if there were mistakes made. Not sure this is what you want to hear but that's how I see it.

I did do all the seals that are removable and they were installed in the same orientation as the originals. I truly can't say if it was dropping before because except for the first inch or so, it moves verrrrryyyyy slowly if at all once it catches. I only noticed the initial drop because I was paying attention after the install. I initially thought air and that it would go away after a little use but, I have about 3 hours on it after the install and it is still doing it.

I saw in the manual that you can test the seals by plugging the lower hydraulic hose to the cylinder, and then move the foot control down and look for seepage out of the lower cylinder port. The left side lower port is tough to get to, does anyone know if you can do it the opposite way, plugging the top hose and trying to lift the arms to see any seepage out of the top port?

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

Would both sides have to be bad to have drift like that or would it do it if one side was bad and one side was good?

I reinstalled the new ones in the same orientation as the old ones. I was a little concerned at the time because the piston seal seemed fairly loose after it was installed. I'm thinking I might have got mis sized seals or just typical chises junk....they were relatively cheap aftermarket . They weren't the cheapest but the were about 1/2 the cost of shipping bobcat branded seals.

Did you put grease on the seals before putting them back in the barrel? Could be that you scared a seal or rolled.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

I did do all the seals that are removable and they were installed in the same orientation as the originals. I truly can't say if it was dropping before because except for the first inch or so, it moves verrrrryyyyy slowly if at all once it catches. I only noticed the initial drop because I was paying attention after the install. I initially thought air and that it would go away after a little use but, I have about 3 hours on it after the install and it is still doing it.

I saw in the manual that you can test the seals by plugging the lower hydraulic hose to the cylinder, and then move the foot control down and look for seepage out of the lower cylinder port. The left side lower port is tough to get to, does anyone know if you can do it the opposite way, plugging the top hose and trying to lift the arms to see any seepage out of the top port?

I would not do that, because it is not safe! The arms will crash down uncontrolled.

 

[cavedweller29]

I would not do that, because it is not safe! The arms will crash down uncontrolled.

I was thinking of doing it with the arm support on but I will take your advice. Thanks

 

[cavedweller29]

I would not do that, because it is not safe! The arms will crash down uncontrolled.

I was thinking of doing it with the arm support on but I will take your advice. Thanks

Yes, I did use grease. Will the arms still drop with one good cylinder and one bad cylinder?

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

Yes, I did use grease. Will the arms still drop with one good cylinder and one bad cylinder?

Yes and it is hard to determine which one is which

 

[cavedweller29]

Yes and it is hard to determine which one is which

Thanks, I will disconnect the lower hoses and do the seal test from the manual to prove / disprove a bad seal and, if there is a bad one, which one it is. I appreciate it.

 

[fortworth-cowboy]

Thanks, I will disconnect the lower hoses and do the seal test from the manual to prove / disprove a bad seal and, if there is a bad one, which one it is. I appreciate it.

IF you can, make yourself a hose (3/4 diameter) and rout it into a bucket. Less mess and you can measure better if both have the same.

 

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IF you can, make yourself a hose (3/4 diameter) and rout it into a bucket. Less mess and you can measure better if both have the same.

A few things bother me what you said. Once you did the repacking or seal change the piston part seemed sloppy in side the cyl. You also mentione a nick in the piston somewhere. Where was that nick in relation to the Packing rings. I wonder if someone had this appart before you. That all said, when I did these in the past we had to use a spring compressor to get the rings past the cylinder wall to reinsert the pistion in the the cyl. How tight was that push in or pull out. Tight or sloppy. If Sloppy fitting. No effort to push/pull, you may have the wrong kit. Did you only do one cyl. repack or both. Should do both as an old rule of thumb. If not you may have a real bad leaking cyl. and expect one to hold the load. Not good. So comes down to this age, use before and tired old cylinders. Then think this through some. What if a person repacked it wrong and with some age and use you get it and repack it using the same method. This may or may not solve this but rethink the whole process. You spared the costs going with China parts. Ok but were they the correct ones or just fit ones. It is clear your bypassing oil without the leaking out the rod ends and that is the tell tail sign. Sorry it is at this point a trial and error. Another thing to consider is if the Cylinders are plugged off that is one way to tell for just the cylinders but if this system has another valve that dumps back to tank in a neutral position you may have to look there also. Control valves depend on the circuit. Open center allows a constant hyd. flow unil the levers are pulled to raise or lower etc.. Good Luck it's a great thing hydraulics but you have to know how it all works from one machine to another. Then tackle the repairs. Be Safe no matter what.

 

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This may be a dumb question...ok, I may have a few dumb questions but, here goes.

I have a 2005 S175 with around 5200 hrs. It has never given me trouble until......I had 50 yards of fill dumped, of course, right in the middle of my driveway and, it had to be moved relatively quickly. As I was moving it to my back yard, I suddenly noticed what, at first looked like water pockets in the fill I got (a lot of clay so it didn't really surprise me) but, as I backed up further, I could see it was oil. I looked to the side and saw that the side of my house was covered in oil...literally covered up to about 20 feet high and got out to see what was wrong. I had blown the wiper out of my lift cylinder and dumped most of my oil on my driveway. This being a rush job, I called my local dealer and they didn't have the seal set so, I had them overnighted....aftermarket parts (not sure if that is where my problem lies).

I got the seals and wrangled my wife into helping me and we changed out the seals on both cylinders. Everything inside looked fine...no scoring, pitting etc except a small chip taken out of the metal flat on the piston (not even sure how that could have happened but, I would guess at an earlier time when seals were done). Anyway, got everything back together, and, as I was finishing relocating the fill, I noticed that my lift arms would drift down about an inch and then stop. They may have been drifting still but, if so, it was so slow and so minimal you couldn't see it. To be honest, I can't say if they were drifting before the cylinders were rebuilt or not...they could have been.

I researched problems that could make the arms drift and the only two that appear to be possibilities are, a damaged seal (possible) or linkage not adjusted correctly (also possible). I started yesterday playing with the linkage and after trying different holes, I don't think that is the problem but, I discovered an issue I can't figure out...my first stupid question....how do you get rusted bolts out of the foot pedal mount? I have a pretty extensive shop but, I have tried everything to get them out, cut them off, etc. I don't have any cutting tools that I can fit into that area and get at them. I really don't want to torch them off but, if that is my only choice I will. Have any of you found a way to do it without a torch?

My second question which is probably the most important question, is about the lift drift. Is there some sort of equalizing valve that would allow both arms to drift at the same time?...I had it in my head that if one sides seal was bad, the other side would keep it from drifting. I guess its also possible (likely?) that the seal kits I got were not the correct size but everything seemed to match up okay. Is there anything else I should be looking for that could cause the issue?

Sorry for the book and the dumb questions and thanks for any knowledge you can pass on.

First there is no such thing as a dumb question. Next thing is the foot pedal. Can you get the pedal and what it's attached to out so you can work on it better. Soak it in penetrants may help. The what to do if's Hard to say without a picture or pictures. The bucket arm lift cylinders should both be done at the same time if repacking one then the other. Make sure there is no sloppy fit or scoring of the walls and piston. It should be a tight fit not sloppy and use Grease or hydraulic oils when inserting the pistons. I know in this thread of good info that was mentioned. I left some other words of wisdom in a long reply. If you do and work on this bucket when up make sure it is supported or chain fall if need be. You cannot be too safe. Bad things can happen. Good Luck with all this.