Bobcat 632 - Converting to solid state ignition

[bobcatzack]

I am following up on an advise on this forum for my 1979 Bobcat 632 fuel issues. Suggestion was made to convert to a solid state (electronic) ignitor. My Bobcat 632 has a Ford 4-Cylinder engine with a brown distributor cap.

[h4][/h4]

Seeking advise on what parts to buy to convert to solid state ignition.

[h4][/h4]

Found these parts online - is this what I would need for the conversion? Many thanks!

 

[j-jock]

Heathkit CP-1060 Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) adapter box ca 1972

I have been using the Heathkit CD boxes (3) in all my old gas powered equipment and vehicles since 1973, and have found these kits are all I need to have a reliable, easy starting engine and yet still retain the points. If you were to go on epay, and paste the above text into the search window, you will find one currently selling for approximately $40.00.
The beauty of this system, is that there is a manual available for it, that has all the information a person needs to keep the system operational. If a person bought this unit, I have a manual, and believe I also have a link to a downloadable PDF, with all the instructions a person would need to keep the unit running forever.
This is the system I have been using on my Ford 1600 powered Bobcat since 1985.

You mention, that someone has recommended a CD unit to solve a fuel issue, A CD unit will not solve a fuel problem, but it will solve a hard starting problem, bu providing a strong, hot spark.
I don't have any personal knowledge of the Pertronix ignition systems, but am aware of a fair number of people using this system in classic cars.
Bob

 

[bobcatzack]

Great, thanks Bob! I will do the search on eBay for Heathkit CP-1060 Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) adapter box ca 1972.

Fuel issue is there on my Bobcat 632 (which I just bought about a week ago), but another member suggested that if there are sparks in the spark plugs, then perhaps the timing is off? Also it does not start on starting fluid. Suggestion was made to convert to solid state ignition.
Zack

 

[brdgbldr]

I used the Pertronix system in my 742B (Mitsubishi 4G32). It was great. No more points at all and never had an issue with it for the 13 years I had the machine. You still need to maintain the cap and rotor though.

I did however have to make the slot bigger in the points replacement piece to get it to fit properly.

 

[j-jock]

I run a lot of old stuff, and my personal experience is, that the ignition system has to be clean and in prime condition. I would first make certain the points and condensor are functioning properly. Because my machine is permanently outside and I am in wet climate for the winter months, I find I have to clean the oxidation off the points annually, and although the condensor is not always a problem, if you are experiencing an ignition issue, it would be wise to replace it.
Checking the timing is simple and just a matter of having someone turning the engine over with a timing light connected.
Another method of setting the rough timing, is to disconnect the battery, connect an ohmmeter to both sides of the points, turn the engine over with a socket wrench on the crankshaft bolt, and notice on the timing mark at the front pulley, when the points open.
BTW: when checking the timing, the engine should only be turned in the normal direction of rotation. This is to prevent any error due to slack in the system.
All this should be done even before switching over to a CD ignition system.
That text I sent in the first posting, was taken from an actual listing on ebay.
Bob

 

[Dadosix]

I run a lot of old stuff, and my personal experience is, that the ignition system has to be clean and in prime condition. I would first make certain the points and condensor are functioning properly. Because my machine is permanently outside and I am in wet climate for the winter months, I find I have to clean the oxidation off the points annually, and although the condensor is not always a problem, if you are experiencing an ignition issue, it would be wise to replace it.
Checking the timing is simple and just a matter of having someone turning the engine over with a timing light connected.
Another method of setting the rough timing, is to disconnect the battery, connect an ohmmeter to both sides of the points, turn the engine over with a socket wrench on the crankshaft bolt, and notice on the timing mark at the front pulley, when the points open.
BTW: when checking the timing, the engine should only be turned in the normal direction of rotation. This is to prevent any error due to slack in the system.
All this should be done even before switching over to a CD ignition system.
That text I sent in the first posting, was taken from an actual listing on ebay.
Bob

Good advice here for BobCatZach. I have no experience with the 4 cyl engine on these but used to have lots of garage time with points / condenser systems.

Where the CD system may be an upgrade, I think the focus should be a running machine before swapping parts out.

So - old style points -

Does this engine have adjustable points? So far, I have not seen anyone mention Dwell (dwell angle).

Ignition system needs to have good plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor and wires. Is there a possibility, after the engine got wet / cleaned, that the cap was removed and the carbon stud that contacts the rotor was lost / damaged. I'm thinking not, as upthread there was mention of spark.

No mention of spark quality - yellow - coil is not getting what he wants to fire hot - bad condenser, bad coil. White / blue - good and hot. Let's move on.

Will it run on ether or brake clean? just s squirt to see if the engine even tries.

Zack mentioned timing, but that, IMO, isn't a player here as it was running before the engine cleaning - Unless the water moved the distributor and affected timing that way.

Cap / rotor / wires - did the plug wires get removed and maybe back on in a different order?

What is a big unknown is the rusty wire upthread near the solenoid that goes nowhere. Thinking this is the real issue.

Don't get me wrong guys - I'm all for the CD unit, but I avoid throwing parts at a problem. Would rather spend a few hours verifying the basics instead of a few hundred on 'might be' ideas.

 

[RandyL]

My situation was that my 632 would start at times, and seem to run well. Other times it was difficult to start, but when started it would still run well. Finally it got to where it would start no more, just crank over. All the ignition checks were made as mentioned above. Finally I did a compression test, It was extremely low. It should not have ever started at all..down in the 40 pound range. I oiled the cylinders and it was still very low. I decided to pull the motor and find the problem. The major problem was that the rings were totally worn out. Oiling the cylinders did not raise the compression because the pistons have a deep recessed top and all the oil was collected in this dished out area. The dished out pistons messed with my diagnosis of a "wet" compression test. Starts nicely now that it has compression. I still run the standard ignition system.

 

[bobcatzack]

Good advice here for BobCatZach. I have no experience with the 4 cyl engine on these but used to have lots of garage time with points / condenser systems.

Where the CD system may be an upgrade, I think the focus should be a running machine before swapping parts out.

So - old style points -

Does this engine have adjustable points? So far, I have not seen anyone mention Dwell (dwell angle).

Ignition system needs to have good plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor and wires. Is there a possibility, after the engine got wet / cleaned, that the cap was removed and the carbon stud that contacts the rotor was lost / damaged. I'm thinking not, as upthread there was mention of spark.

No mention of spark quality - yellow - coil is not getting what he wants to fire hot - bad condenser, bad coil. White / blue - good and hot. Let's move on.

Will it run on ether or brake clean? just s squirt to see if the engine even tries.

Zack mentioned timing, but that, IMO, isn't a player here as it was running before the engine cleaning - Unless the water moved the distributor and affected timing that way.

Cap / rotor / wires - did the plug wires get removed and maybe back on in a different order?

What is a big unknown is the rusty wire upthread near the solenoid that goes nowhere. Thinking this is the real issue.

Don't get me wrong guys - I'm all for the CD unit, but I avoid throwing parts at a problem. Would rather spend a few hours verifying the basics instead of a few hundred on 'might be' ideas.

Thank you for the wise outlook and advice. Do want to mention that the plug wires were removed, and being a complete novice, I replaced them with new wires and new plugs and had no idea what order to put the wires back on .. they could very well be in a different order! Will that cause the engine to not start?

 

[bobcatzack]

My situation was that my 632 would start at times, and seem to run well. Other times it was difficult to start, but when started it would still run well. Finally it got to where it would start no more, just crank over. All the ignition checks were made as mentioned above. Finally I did a compression test, It was extremely low. It should not have ever started at all..down in the 40 pound range. I oiled the cylinders and it was still very low. I decided to pull the motor and find the problem. The major problem was that the rings were totally worn out. Oiling the cylinders did not raise the compression because the pistons have a deep recessed top and all the oil was collected in this dished out area. The dished out pistons messed with my diagnosis of a "wet" compression test. Starts nicely now that it has compression. I still run the standard ignition system. View attachment 2568

@RandyL thanks! I did buy compression testing kit and found 110 lb and 95 lb on the first two plug points. Perhaps should check them all.

 

[bobcatzack]

My situation was that my 632 would start at times, and seem to run well. Other times it was difficult to start, but when started it would still run well. Finally it got to where it would start no more, just crank over. All the ignition checks were made as mentioned above. Finally I did a compression test, It was extremely low. It should not have ever started at all..down in the 40 pound range. I oiled the cylinders and it was still very low. I decided to pull the motor and find the problem. The major problem was that the rings were totally worn out. Oiling the cylinders did not raise the compression because the pistons have a deep recessed top and all the oil was collected in this dished out area. The dished out pistons messed with my diagnosis of a "wet" compression test. Starts nicely now that it has compression. I still run the standard ignition system. View attachment 2568

Great picture of the 632 engine! I do see your distributor cap is black (my Bobcat 632 has a brown cap). Hoping that the plug wire order would be the same - can you please tell me which wire goes to which cylinder from your distributor? I think I messed up my order when I replaced the plugs and wires. Thanks!!

 

[brdgbldr]

Thank you for the wise outlook and advice. Do want to mention that the plug wires were removed, and being a complete novice, I replaced them with new wires and new plugs and had no idea what order to put the wires back on .. they could very well be in a different order! Will that cause the engine to not start?

Yes, if your plug wires are wrong the engine will not run. The pistons have a firing order.

 

[bobcatzack]

My situation was that my 632 would start at times, and seem to run well. Other times it was difficult to start, but when started it would still run well. Finally it got to where it would start no more, just crank over. All the ignition checks were made as mentioned above. Finally I did a compression test, It was extremely low. It should not have ever started at all..down in the 40 pound range. I oiled the cylinders and it was still very low. I decided to pull the motor and find the problem. The major problem was that the rings were totally worn out. Oiling the cylinders did not raise the compression because the pistons have a deep recessed top and all the oil was collected in this dished out area. The dished out pistons messed with my diagnosis of a "wet" compression test. Starts nicely now that it has compression. I still run the standard ignition system. View attachment 2568

Randy - I am the only one working on my Bobcat 632 (with no 2nd helper) - want to crank while I am on the engine side, as opposed to walking to the front of the bobcat when I am unable to see any dials or readings) - Any suggestions on what part to buy and the wiring needed so I can temporarily crank while working on the engine? Many thanks!

 

[spitzair]

You can simply bridge the starter terminals with a screwdriver to get the engine to crank over. I'll get you a picture of where in a little while.

 

[spitzair]

Sent you a private message… you can also bojang together a switch with alligator clips and hook to those terminals, then when you need to crank you simply activate the switch. Be careful of any loose clothing and body parts that they don't get caught up in the belts!

 

[brdgbldr]

Randy - I am the only one working on my Bobcat 632 (with no 2nd helper) - want to crank while I am on the engine side, as opposed to walking to the front of the bobcat when I am unable to see any dials or readings) - Any suggestions on what part to buy and the wiring needed so I can temporarily crank while working on the engine? Many thanks!

I used to bridge the starter but the sparks produced were not fun, not to mention the damage that was happening to the studs.

A remote starter is what I use now. Here is an example: Amazon product ASIN B00OPVYHZ4
It's a personal choice and they are easy to make. But for the price, and since it can be used on just about any vehicle or machine with a starter, it's worth the $20.

 

[RandyL]

OK.... lets see if we can get your plugs wires on correctly. This is an old picture from a previous post that shows it pretty good. This is the Ford 1.6 engine. Mine is wired like this. The cap color does not matter. That is the material it is made of.

#1 cylinder is close to you when you open the engine hatch, #4 cylinder is much harder to reach, deep in the engine compartment.

There are 2 clips that hold the dist cap on. They are pictured in the drawing. Use them as a guide for installing the plug wires. The clip closer to the engine block should have wires 1 and 2 on either side of it. wires 4 and 3 are on either side of the other clip. Match these wires to the cylinders of the same number.

The word counterclockwise refers to the direction the rotor turns when the engine is turning over or running. See how clear all of this is.

 

[RandyL]

I have a remote crank button that I have used for a long time. One clip goes to the starter, one clip goes the positive battery terminal. Push the buttone and the engine cranks. If you want the engine to start you have to turn the key on to energize the ignition system.

2 nasty pictures of my starter before I rebuilt my engine. One shows where the clip goes after sliding off the connector from your ignition switch, I put an arrow on the pic. The other photo shows it actually hooked up with the wiring all there.

Making a pushbutton and clips can be of what you have on hand. I am fortunate to have tools on hand. I started rebuilding and working on engines in the 1960's. It was my entire career.

 

[Dadosix]

OK.... lets see if we can get your plugs wires on correctly. This is an old picture from a previous post that shows it pretty good. This is the Ford 1.6 engine. Mine is wired like this. The cap color does not matter. That is the material it is made of.

#1 cylinder is close to you when you open the engine hatch, #4 cylinder is much harder to reach, deep in the engine compartment.

There are 2 clips that hold the dist cap on. They are pictured in the drawing. Use them as a guide for installing the plug wires. The clip closer to the engine block should have wires 1 and 2 on either side of it. wires 4 and 3 are on either side of the other clip. Match these wires to the cylinders of the same number.

The word counterclockwise refers to the direction the rotor turns when the engine is turning over or running. See how clear all of this is.View attachment 2581

hoping this is the solution for BobCatZack!

Basics first.

Still curious about that wire to nowhere that he sees.

 

[RandyL]

hoping this is the solution for BobCatZack!

Basics first.

Still curious about that wire to nowhere that he sees.

Yes sir, I agree. You never know at what level to begin a conversation that may help. I think we are at the basics now and with some luck it may help. I missed the post about an extra wire that goes nowhere. I had a wire down in the starter area that took some research. It was a slide on connector and as I recall it I believe it went to the fuel cut solenoid, and my machine is not equipped with one, hence a loose, unused wire hanging down there.

 

[bobcatzack]

OK.... lets see if we can get your plugs wires on correctly. This is an old picture from a previous post that shows it pretty good. This is the Ford 1.6 engine. Mine is wired like this. The cap color does not matter. That is the material it is made of.

#1 cylinder is close to you when you open the engine hatch, #4 cylinder is much harder to reach, deep in the engine compartment.

There are 2 clips that hold the dist cap on. They are pictured in the drawing. Use them as a guide for installing the plug wires. The clip closer to the engine block should have wires 1 and 2 on either side of it. wires 4 and 3 are on either side of the other clip. Match these wires to the cylinders of the same number.

The word counterclockwise refers to the direction the rotor turns when the engine is turning over or running. See how clear all of this is.View attachment 2581

Indeed it is very clear - and the way you explained also makes it absolutely clear. Thank you!!