Flail mower extension

[Mustang Guy]

I need to extend the flail mower out about four feet in front of the machine. I believe this can be accomplished with some simple bracketry and longer hoses. Does anyone see a potential problem with this?

 

[mrbb]

yes, your going to have alot of excessive leverage on things having all the weight out in front like that, will throw balance of machine off and add stress to a lot of the machines parts!
I don;'t think I would do such a thing
a few inches or MAYBE a FT, OK, but after that your asking for issue's, all the more so if operating it on uneven terrain and or slopes and hills! IMO!

 

[foton]

yeah you would need a lot of counter weight to pull that off balance wise, but that would not help the load you would be putting on the lift arms. I assume that you are doing this cause you are tired of eating all that you mow? May be a cab machine is in your future.

 

[Mustang Guy]

yeah you would need a lot of counter weight to pull that off balance wise, but that would not help the load you would be putting on the lift arms. I assume that you are doing this cause you are tired of eating all that you mow? May be a cab machine is in your future.

I run a 7 foot Dual Dozer out front and it weighs way more than the mower. The Mustang picks it up off the wheels and maneuvers with no problems. The machine only sees it as additional weight. Yeah, a cab machine would be nice - you buyin'? The reason for the extension is mowing over a berm at right angles.

 

[Mustang Guy]

yes, your going to have alot of excessive leverage on things having all the weight out in front like that, will throw balance of machine off and add stress to a lot of the machines parts!
I don;'t think I would do such a thing
a few inches or MAYBE a FT, OK, but after that your asking for issue's, all the more so if operating it on uneven terrain and or slopes and hills! IMO!

Please see my reply to foton.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I need to extend the flail mower out about four feet in front of the machine. I believe this can be accomplished with some simple bracketry and longer hoses. Does anyone see a potential problem with this?

View attachment 1999

potential problems? of course but wheres the fun in that? If I were going to try, a retractable scissor action would be cool. Out when needed, in when not. I'd definitely add 2 - 4 caster wheels to offset the weight transfer.

 

[mrbb]

potential problems? of course but wheres the fun in that? If I were going to try, a retractable scissor action would be cool. Out when needed, in when not. I'd definitely add 2 - 4 caster wheels to offset the weight transfer.

and the old saying goes, just cause you can doesn;t mean you should!
your machine has spec's on what weight is should use and not use, when you do the math of adding in for leverage, odds are again you will past what the machine was designed for
yes folks over do things all the time, , just like some folks win the lottery too
it doesn;'t make it the right thing to do, and I am NOT perfect I have over done things too and got away with them, and also over done things and had that cost me down time and repair costs!
so NOT throwing stones here!

risks are and will be there running something that far out front of a skid steer IMO
AND<
that dozer blade also has wheels to help support it and doesn't include moving mass i!
your money, your machine, have at it if you so wish too, but I stand by my first post, its a BAD idea!

 

[Mustang Guy]

Ok, fellows, I understand your points now. The extra forces required to maintain the cutting height will be on the tilt cylinders . No real extra forces on the lift cylinders, just the bulk weight. I'll go with ddbackhoe's suggestion and install a pair of 10" flat-free swivel casters, and somehow make them adjustable for the cutting height (any suggestions on that?).

 

[TonyCT322]

So how is this different from a skid steer mower. My MTL deck extends out at least six feet with center mass being the pump? It is solid and very heavy. I, too, am interested in sourcing and attaching wheels to the front. As the oil heats and thins it buries the nose. I am constantly having to tilt it up to keep it level. Thank you.

 

[koko]

So how is this different from a skid steer mower. My MTL deck extends out at least six feet with center mass being the pump? It is solid and very heavy. I, too, am interested in sourcing and attaching wheels to the front. As the oil heats and thins it buries the nose. I am constantly having to tilt it up to keep it level. Thank you.

I just fashioned some adjustable skid plates for mine, not a finish mower but a rough cut mower.

 

[mrbb]

So how is this different from a skid steer mower. My MTL deck extends out at least six feet with center mass being the pump? It is solid and very heavy. I, too, am interested in sourcing and attaching wheels to the front. As the oil heats and thins it buries the nose. I am constantly having to tilt it up to keep it level. Thank you.

like I said, your mower is also adding a LOT of stress to the front end of your machine, and the fact you are always having to TILT things up, shows it it taxing your tilt cylinders
can the machine do it, you already know it can ans has, but that doesn;t mean what your doing is not harder on the machine than using a bucket on the front, as they say HOW and what a machine id used for, will determine the life of that machine, think about when you go buy used equipment, do you factor in how the machine was used or abuse ??
I am sure we all do!

next the 6 ft wide overall size is not having ALL or a majority of its weight 4 ft + in front of the machine, its all being split, so its NOT the same as having a fail mower 4+ ft out front of your quick attach!
and the rolling mass of the cutters in the fail mower is different than on a brush hog type mower,a fail mower will want to dig down more and have rolling mass, as to your brush hog which the blades spin flat
two different animals
and as I said, BOTH can be done, but its not something I would do a LOT of with my machine
typically when you get into land clearing machines , dedicated one
s they tend to be very LARGE heavy HD skid steers, designed to run them things , they have special glass or cages too, to make the operator safer
you stick a fail mower out 4 ft+ , your going to find a LOT more flack flying back into the cab, as when its mounted like it is there is already flack, and a LOT of it goes UNDER the machine , , move it farther out front, and what used to go under the machine will soon be heading into the cab more, and that can get dangerous fast!
as it only takes one thing to do harm enough to regret it!

and I mean all this as NO bash, just adding info to think about, as like I said, we all do things at times that maybe we shouldn;t, or use a machine for something its really NOT designed for, even if it works , we all some times use things abuse things and so on, so NOT throwing stones , I'm plenty guilty! and have many scar's to prove it! HAHA< as well as many that worked out just fine!

but we all should make decisions on risks/rewards , but IMO< its best to based them risks, on some honest info and go from there,
some times things have to get done! , were not all made of money , or a mass of equipment to use and pick from,
and just have to use what we have !
so, I get it

 

[ddbackhoe]

and the old saying goes, just cause you can doesn;t mean you should!
your machine has spec's on what weight is should use and not use, when you do the math of adding in for leverage, odds are again you will past what the machine was designed for
yes folks over do things all the time, , just like some folks win the lottery too
it doesn;'t make it the right thing to do, and I am NOT perfect I have over done things too and got away with them, and also over done things and had that cost me down time and repair costs!
so NOT throwing stones here!

risks are and will be there running something that far out front of a skid steer IMO
AND<
that dozer blade also has wheels to help support it and doesn't include moving mass i!
your money, your machine, have at it if you so wish too, but I stand by my first post, its a BAD idea!

Right, I did suggest two things.WHEELS and a scissor action (think warehouse forklift). Would you care to show us the formulas for the added momentums and weight redistribution vs. the OEM spec ?

 

[ddbackhoe]

Ok, fellows, I understand your points now. The extra forces required to maintain the cutting height will be on the tilt cylinders . No real extra forces on the lift cylinders, just the bulk weight. I'll go with ddbackhoe's suggestion and install a pair of 10" flat-free swivel casters, and somehow make them adjustable for the cutting height (any suggestions on that?).

Sure, think about a bushhog tailwheel. Make the wheel yoke shaft longer and shim up (or down) with spacers as needed.

ROTARY CUTTER TAIL WHEEL ASSEMBLY WITH 1-1/4" SHAFT FITS BUSH HOG LANDPRIDE MORE | eBay

This assembly includes the tire and rim, axle bolt & nut, fabricated greasable hub and the tailwheel fork. This assembly fits several different make rotary cutters. We also carry different size wheel forks for rotary cutters.

www.ebay.com

 

[mrbb]

Right, I did suggest two things.WHEELS and a scissor action (think warehouse forklift). Would you care to show us the formulas for the added momentums and weight redistribution vs. the OEM spec ?

feel free to read all you like on Newton's laws of motion , as well as other formulas that can teach you about MASS in motion!

and the OEM have there own specific ways they measure each machine to get spec's on what it can hold
a HD 6 ft fail mower weighs about what 1800-2000 lbs??, ( an average HD 6 tft brush hog is about 1200-1300 lbs and is spread out across a 6+ ft area, NOT all at 4+ ft in front of a machine as OP was talking about doing, so its far from an apples to apple comparison, yet you already noticed the ill effects of it nose diving on you) which is most likely about the MAX of your skid steers rating carrying capacity
and that is with the weight sucked into as close to the machine as there OEM spec bucket was designed for
NOW you take that MAX rating and stick it out 4 + ft from the machine, and ALL lifting parts and things there mounted too get effected by added stress and weight from leverage
take weight and put it into motion, and you have added effects!,(newtons laws of physic's look them up, if you are to learn about them!,
I'm not here to do so for you)

and I understood your SCISSOR action, yes that would maybe work, but at what costs to fab up and design and make<
yes I agree for short use it would be most likely OK, but its not changing what I said that it is adding stress to the machine doing so!

you take a 10 lb weight hold it next to your chest, and then try same thing only with your arm fully extended, suddenly the weight feels a lot more and the longer you hold it out the weaker your arm will get, do it OFTEN and the shorter the amount of time, before your arm gets weaker
this is an example what wear and tear will be on your machine when you do so!
ONLY a human ARM has muscles, if done enough they can get stronger, where a machine's FIXED parts will only weaken over time, NOT get stronger!

and your still going to have more FLACK flying back at the cab with a fail mower extended out 4+ ft in front of you, if you think stuff is coming at you now>> your soon to get even more!, I make a door if you don;t have one if you plan to do the mod to the mower!

and as for adding wheels, I'd also maybe considering, adding some HD coil springs to wheels like above, this way they can follow the un even terrain of the ground, by applying some down force to the wheels, just need strong enough springs to still HOLD up the weight of the mower
Like I stated, I am NOT bashing, just adding honest info and opinions I have based on my experience and knowledge I have gained over the yrs, you don;t have to like them, but they are honest!

 

[Mustang Guy]

feel free to read all you like on Newton's laws of motion , as well as other formulas that can teach you about MASS in motion!

and the OEM have there own specific ways they measure each machine to get spec's on what it can hold
a HD 6 ft fail mower weighs about what 1800-2000 lbs??, ( an average HD 6 tft brush hog is about 1200-1300 lbs and is spread out across a 6+ ft area, NOT all at 4+ ft in front of a machine as OP was talking about doing, so its far from an apples to apple comparison, yet you already noticed the ill effects of it nose diving on you) which is most likely about the MAX of your skid steers rating carrying capacity
and that is with the weight sucked into as close to the machine as there OEM spec bucket was designed for
NOW you take that MAX rating and stick it out 4 + ft from the machine, and ALL lifting parts and things there mounted too get effected by added stress and weight from leverage
take weight and put it into motion, and you have added effects!,(newtons laws of physic's look them up, if you are to learn about them!,
I'm not here to do so for you)

and I understood your SCISSOR action, yes that would maybe work, but at what costs to fab up and design and make<
yes I agree for short use it would be most likely OK, but its not changing what I said that it is adding stress to the machine doing so!

you take a 10 lb weight hold it next to your chest, and then try same thing only with your arm fully extended, suddenly the weight feels a lot more and the longer you hold it out the weaker your arm will get, do it OFTEN and the shorter the amount of time, before your arm gets weaker
this is an example what wear and tear will be on your machine when you do so!
ONLY a human ARM has muscles, if done enough they can get stronger, where a machine's FIXED parts will only weaken over time, NOT get stronger!

and your still going to have more FLACK flying back at the cab with a fail mower extended out 4+ ft in front of you, if you think stuff is coming at you now>> your soon to get even more!, I make a door if you don;t have one if you plan to do the mod to the mower!

and as for adding wheels, I'd also maybe considering, adding some HD coil springs to wheels like above, this way they can follow the un even terrain of the ground, by applying some down force to the wheels, just need strong enough springs to still HOLD up the weight of the mower
Like I stated, I am NOT bashing, just adding honest info and opinions I have based on my experience and knowledge I have gained over the yrs, you don;t have to like them, but they are honest!

You're starting to scare me, man. Your weight numbers are off by at least a thousand pounds. My flail mower weighs in at ~620 lbs., way under the machine's capacity (I believe a rotary cutter weighs about the same). And FYI, the rotating hammers on my unit don't throw the slash backwards, they counter-rotate and tend to throw forwards, albeit very little, because it mostly goes right back down as mulch. I haven't felt the need to do weight distribution calculations because this mod isn't that critical. I'm a retired engineer, and know Newton and Euclid very well. That said, being an engineer allows me to design and fab some great stuff.

Ddbackhoe, thanks for the link. I think a simple parallelogram and jack screw will do the trick for height adjustments. That way I can just put it in float and greatly reduce any lift/tilt stresses.

 

[Mustang Guy]

 

[Mustang Guy]

feel free to read all you like on Newton's laws of motion , as well as other formulas that can teach you about MASS in motion!

Um, "mass in motion" is called momentum. I don't see how it's applicable here. I think you are referring to Isaac's Second Law. No?

 

[ddbackhoe]

feel free to read all you like on Newton's laws of motion , as well as other formulas that can teach you about MASS in motion!

and the OEM have there own specific ways they measure each machine to get spec's on what it can hold
a HD 6 ft fail mower weighs about what 1800-2000 lbs??, ( an average HD 6 tft brush hog is about 1200-1300 lbs and is spread out across a 6+ ft area, NOT all at 4+ ft in front of a machine as OP was talking about doing, so its far from an apples to apple comparison, yet you already noticed the ill effects of it nose diving on you) which is most likely about the MAX of your skid steers rating carrying capacity
and that is with the weight sucked into as close to the machine as there OEM spec bucket was designed for
NOW you take that MAX rating and stick it out 4 + ft from the machine, and ALL lifting parts and things there mounted too get effected by added stress and weight from leverage
take weight and put it into motion, and you have added effects!,(newtons laws of physic's look them up, if you are to learn about them!,
I'm not here to do so for you)

and I understood your SCISSOR action, yes that would maybe work, but at what costs to fab up and design and make<
yes I agree for short use it would be most likely OK, but its not changing what I said that it is adding stress to the machine doing so!

you take a 10 lb weight hold it next to your chest, and then try same thing only with your arm fully extended, suddenly the weight feels a lot more and the longer you hold it out the weaker your arm will get, do it OFTEN and the shorter the amount of time, before your arm gets weaker
this is an example what wear and tear will be on your machine when you do so!
ONLY a human ARM has muscles, if done enough they can get stronger, where a machine's FIXED parts will only weaken over time, NOT get stronger!

and your still going to have more FLACK flying back at the cab with a fail mower extended out 4+ ft in front of you, if you think stuff is coming at you now>> your soon to get even more!, I make a door if you don;t have one if you plan to do the mod to the mower!

and as for adding wheels, I'd also maybe considering, adding some HD coil springs to wheels like above, this way they can follow the un even terrain of the ground, by applying some down force to the wheels, just need strong enough springs to still HOLD up the weight of the mower
Like I stated, I am NOT bashing, just adding honest info and opinions I have based on my experience and knowledge I have gained over the yrs, you don;t have to like them, but they are honest!

Ah, so you really have nothing to add except opinion. Lots of typing though, good on ya.
Really bad analogy, kinda what strength training/ muscle toning is all about….."you take a 10 lb weight hold it next to your chest, and then try same thing only with your arm fully extended, suddenly the weight feels a lot more and the longer you hold it out the weaker your arm will get, do it OFTEN and the shorter the amount of time, before your arm gets weaker"

 

[ddbackhoe]

do you have hammer blades on the flail? Why are you attacking the brush side to side instead of making longer passes?
With all that dust youre creating, it might be a good idea to check the air filter and radiator at the end of the day.

 

[Mustang Guy]

do you have hammer blades on the flail? Why are you attacking the brush side to side instead of making longer passes?
With all that dust youre creating, it might be a good idea to check the air filter and radiator at the end of the day.

Yes, hammer blades. Couldn't make longer passes because I was heading into a bank. plus I found a huge hidden stump in there. I did check the air filter and blew out the radiator and oil cooler - not as bad as I had expected.