Wisconsin vh4d oil pressure gauge, Where to install sender?

[user4579]

Good Day all! I installed an oil pressure gauge on my Bobcat 610. Mounting the gauge was easy, and I installed the sender in the same place that the switch for the shut off was. But as you probably figured out, all that does is show me the back pressure of the oil filter. So my question is where on this engine is there a port to install a sender that will show me the internal oil pressure? Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[alchemysa]

I started a thread on the 'questionable' oiling system of the VH4D. (Questionable in my opinion anyway). You might like to copy and paste the link and have a read.
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=97537
The internal oil spray nozzles are BEFORE the oil filter, so if you have backpressure in the system between the pump and the filter then the nozzles that lubricate the engine, and the pipe to the governor, must be getting oil. Provided they are not blocked then they are working.
You NEED backpressure for the system to work. If you have no back pressure you have a problem. Probably the position where you have the sender is as good as any. What is it actually saying?

 

[alchemysa]

I started a thread on the 'questionable' oiling system of the VH4D. (Questionable in my opinion anyway). You might like to copy and paste the link and have a read.
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=97537
The internal oil spray nozzles are BEFORE the oil filter, so if you have backpressure in the system between the pump and the filter then the nozzles that lubricate the engine, and the pipe to the governor, must be getting oil. Provided they are not blocked then they are working.
You NEED backpressure for the system to work. If you have no back pressure you have a problem. Probably the position where you have the sender is as good as any. What is it actually saying?

The VH4d repair manual (do you have it?) says its a low pressure system developing only about 4 to 5 psi when its all warmed up. If it exceeds 15 psi (when its cold for example) a pressure release in the oil pump will open up.

 

[user4579]

I started a thread on the 'questionable' oiling system of the VH4D. (Questionable in my opinion anyway). You might like to copy and paste the link and have a read.
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=97537
The internal oil spray nozzles are BEFORE the oil filter, so if you have backpressure in the system between the pump and the filter then the nozzles that lubricate the engine, and the pipe to the governor, must be getting oil. Provided they are not blocked then they are working.
You NEED backpressure for the system to work. If you have no back pressure you have a problem. Probably the position where you have the sender is as good as any. What is it actually saying?

Thanks a Ton for your Response!! Well that is a Crazy oiling system. I would have never guessed an engine that is 30 hp. would have such a poor system for oil. Common Sense would have the oil going through the filter before going to the nozzles. But,,, it seem to have worked ok for years, but I also see many "repowering" because of a bad engine. Usually crank or rod problems. My engine has about 3 - 4 lbs. after warm up and at operating temp. It's a Great running engine, and I just wanted to make sure it stays that way. I guess that is as good as it gets! So I guess I'll Smile and be Happy! PS. Would different types or sizes of oil filters give it more or less back pressure?

 

[alchemysa]

Thanks a Ton for your Response!! Well that is a Crazy oiling system. I would have never guessed an engine that is 30 hp. would have such a poor system for oil. Common Sense would have the oil going through the filter before going to the nozzles. But,,, it seem to have worked ok for years, but I also see many "repowering" because of a bad engine. Usually crank or rod problems. My engine has about 3 - 4 lbs. after warm up and at operating temp. It's a Great running engine, and I just wanted to make sure it stays that way. I guess that is as good as it gets! So I guess I'll Smile and be Happy! PS. Would different types or sizes of oil filters give it more or less back pressure?

I remember reading a post on some forum about a VH4 engine failing a few hours after a rebuild because they had they wrong oil filter. It didn't provide enough back pressure. So I'd say its essential to stick with something exactly matching the manufacturers recommendation.
I might be wrong (my 610 and the engine is in pieces at the moment) but I think the oil filter is mounted remotely a bit higher than when its mounted directly on the engine. Maybe a little bit of gravity to increase pressure is a good thing.
I think the oiling system is fine if the oil is clean, and the engine is used reasonably regularly. If the engine sits unused for months it might be a bit dry at start up. The oil at the bottom of my sump was like jelly. I had to scrape it off with a paint scraper.
One thing that has always seemed a bit dodgy to me is the suggestion in the VH4 manual that, to boost compression after a long layup, put a bit of oil in each spark plug hole. This seems kinda fishy doesn't it? Why wouldn't they just say run the engine for a minute before doing the compression test? Wouldn't that effectively oil the cylinders? Perhaps its really a recognition that the oil system is poor and it actually takes a long time to properly lubricate the pistons.

 

[6brnorma]

I remember reading a post on some forum about a VH4 engine failing a few hours after a rebuild because they had they wrong oil filter. It didn't provide enough back pressure. So I'd say its essential to stick with something exactly matching the manufacturers recommendation.
I might be wrong (my 610 and the engine is in pieces at the moment) but I think the oil filter is mounted remotely a bit higher than when its mounted directly on the engine. Maybe a little bit of gravity to increase pressure is a good thing.
I think the oiling system is fine if the oil is clean, and the engine is used reasonably regularly. If the engine sits unused for months it might be a bit dry at start up. The oil at the bottom of my sump was like jelly. I had to scrape it off with a paint scraper.
One thing that has always seemed a bit dodgy to me is the suggestion in the VH4 manual that, to boost compression after a long layup, put a bit of oil in each spark plug hole. This seems kinda fishy doesn't it? Why wouldn't they just say run the engine for a minute before doing the compression test? Wouldn't that effectively oil the cylinders? Perhaps its really a recognition that the oil system is poor and it actually takes a long time to properly lubricate the pistons.

If your machine sets for months between uses, you might consider an additive to keep oil up in the system. (And yes I know that "Oil Additive" arguments can take up pages of a thread)
I use the newer 'spin on' oil filters……you MUST use one that has a reduced opening for the oil to pass into the filter, thereby, maintaining the 5 lb psi.

 

[user4579]

I remember reading a post on some forum about a VH4 engine failing a few hours after a rebuild because they had they wrong oil filter. It didn't provide enough back pressure. So I'd say its essential to stick with something exactly matching the manufacturers recommendation.
I might be wrong (my 610 and the engine is in pieces at the moment) but I think the oil filter is mounted remotely a bit higher than when its mounted directly on the engine. Maybe a little bit of gravity to increase pressure is a good thing.
I think the oiling system is fine if the oil is clean, and the engine is used reasonably regularly. If the engine sits unused for months it might be a bit dry at start up. The oil at the bottom of my sump was like jelly. I had to scrape it off with a paint scraper.
One thing that has always seemed a bit dodgy to me is the suggestion in the VH4 manual that, to boost compression after a long layup, put a bit of oil in each spark plug hole. This seems kinda fishy doesn't it? Why wouldn't they just say run the engine for a minute before doing the compression test? Wouldn't that effectively oil the cylinders? Perhaps its really a recognition that the oil system is poor and it actually takes a long time to properly lubricate the pistons.

Yeah, the wrong oil filter or just a cheap one can shorten the life of an engine. You just don't know it was because of the filter because it may take a year or so before failure. So if I get this right, increasing the back pressure near the oil filter will send more oil to the nozzles. But anything over 15 PSI will bleed off inside. So a fitting with a restriction just after the filter should boost oil delivery to the nozzles as long as I don't go to crazy, maybe shoot for 7 to 8 psi in a warm engine. I'm probably not going to do this, just a thought. Mine runs Great and has 3 or 4 psi so I guess I'll just live with a gauge that hardly moves. Thanks for your help and taking the time to explain all of this!! Steve

 

[user4579]

Yeah, the wrong oil filter or just a cheap one can shorten the life of an engine. You just don't know it was because of the filter because it may take a year or so before failure. So if I get this right, increasing the back pressure near the oil filter will send more oil to the nozzles. But anything over 15 PSI will bleed off inside. So a fitting with a restriction just after the filter should boost oil delivery to the nozzles as long as I don't go to crazy, maybe shoot for 7 to 8 psi in a warm engine. I'm probably not going to do this, just a thought. Mine runs Great and has 3 or 4 psi so I guess I'll just live with a gauge that hardly moves. Thanks for your help and taking the time to explain all of this!! Steve

6brnorma Thanks for the response! As an old drag racer I can tell you from personal experience the RIGHT Additive Does help. My machine gets used once every week or two but only for a short time. Never for hours. It has 3 maybe 4 psi with the Correct filter so I guess I'll just use it and be happy!