surfaced swash plates on 732 with vickers pump now nothing

[Lucaswagg]

If you had deep wear, the face of the rotating groups may be a little worn too.... It could be bronze particles, but generally they are so small that they go through the system and get caught up on the main hydraulic filter, hopefully its not throughout the system.
Just ensure you clean everything with solvent and compressed air. Petrol (gas) works really well here, it dries without residue, a tip i was given and works really well. Lube all parts with oil before assembily.

I have the pump out now. I checked the valves but I didn't see anything obvious. I am going to take your advise and take my time to make sure it's all as clean as possible when I put it back together. I'm not going to put a ton money in though because I found a company called Hydrostatic Transmission Service, LLC. They have an add on ebay for 850.00 dollars to rebuild my pump. Has anyone ever heard of this company or done any business with them?

 

[Tazza]

I have the pump out now. I checked the valves but I didn't see anything obvious. I am going to take your advise and take my time to make sure it's all as clean as possible when I put it back together. I'm not going to put a ton money in though because I found a company called Hydrostatic Transmission Service, LLC. They have an add on ebay for 850.00 dollars to rebuild my pump. Has anyone ever heard of this company or done any business with them?

I haven't heard of them before, but that sounds pretty cheap for a rebuild.
Make sure the port block filter is clear, worst case remove it just to check how it drives. To check the charge pressure, remove the pressure sender on the port block and install a gauge. It should be 90-110 PSI from memory.
Was it making odd noises when it wasn't moving while you push the sticks forward or backwards.

 

[Lucaswagg]

I haven't heard of them before, but that sounds pretty cheap for a rebuild.
Make sure the port block filter is clear, worst case remove it just to check how it drives. To check the charge pressure, remove the pressure sender on the port block and install a gauge. It should be 90-110 PSI from memory.
Was it making odd noises when it wasn't moving while you push the sticks forward or backwards.

I guess it was too cheap, I called them today and they said it would be 1600 plus S&H to rebuild my pump. If it sounds too good to be true it usually is. As far as the filter, It wouldn't even move until I took it out. I don't know what the pressure sender is. Is that the adjustment bolt on the front side of the block? What kind of gauge do I need? - The only noise it would make is the squaling noise hydraulics make when they are super cold. It seems like it just doesn't have enough pressure. The lift works great though, doesn't sqaul or jump and is very quick and responsive. It seems like when you pull the drive sticks all the way back if you had 2 more inches you could pull them back everything would be fine.

 

[Tazza]

I guess it was too cheap, I called them today and they said it would be 1600 plus S&H to rebuild my pump. If it sounds too good to be true it usually is. As far as the filter, It wouldn't even move until I took it out. I don't know what the pressure sender is. Is that the adjustment bolt on the front side of the block? What kind of gauge do I need? - The only noise it would make is the squaling noise hydraulics make when they are super cold. It seems like it just doesn't have enough pressure. The lift works great though, doesn't sqaul or jump and is very quick and responsive. It seems like when you pull the drive sticks all the way back if you had 2 more inches you could pull them back everything would be fine.

The pressure sender should be on the port block, it will be round and have some wires going to it, unless the previous owner removed the sender..... It should be near the hard steel tube line that goes to the middle section of the hydro pump.
Send me an e-mail, see if i can try and nail things down a little more.. "taz38sup at yahoo.com.au"

 

[Lucaswagg]

The pressure sender should be on the port block, it will be round and have some wires going to it, unless the previous owner removed the sender..... It should be near the hard steel tube line that goes to the middle section of the hydro pump.
Send me an e-mail, see if i can try and nail things down a little more.. "taz38sup at yahoo.com.au"

Oh crap! That thing was unplugged when I bought the bob. I actually turned a wrench into it and broke the 1 wire plug off when I broke the line loose next to it. It was unhooked so assumed it was just a temperature light of some kind. I'm pretty sure the wire to it is dead. Can I bypass it somehow?

 

[Tazza]

Oh crap! That thing was unplugged when I bought the bob. I actually turned a wrench into it and broke the 1 wire plug off when I broke the line loose next to it. It was unhooked so assumed it was just a temperature light of some kind. I'm pretty sure the wire to it is dead. Can I bypass it somehow?

You can install a new one once you get things working. If you install a 200 PSI gauge here it will show your charge pressure. Charge pressure is rather important to the drive pump(s).
I got your e-mails, i will look into it when i get home from work!

 

[Tazza]

You can install a new one once you get things working. If you install a 200 PSI gauge here it will show your charge pressure. Charge pressure is rather important to the drive pump(s).
I got your e-mails, i will look into it when i get home from work!

Just looked at the pictures, yes, that seems like it is the temperature sender, i need to try and remember where the pressure sender was fitted....
I'd suggest you plug all the ports and give it a good clean before you do anything else. The sender only checks the temperature, the charge pressure is controlled elsewhere.

 

[Lucaswagg]

You can install a new one once you get things working. If you install a 200 PSI gauge here it will show your charge pressure. Charge pressure is rather important to the drive pump(s).
I got your e-mails, i will look into it when i get home from work!

I can't thank you enough for your help! If I have low pressure at the port block does that mean I need a new pump cartridge?

 

[Tazza]

I can't thank you enough for your help! If I have low pressure at the port block does that mean I need a new pump cartridge?

If your lift and tilt is working well, i'd doubt you would need to change the pump. Charge pressure is 90-110 PSI your lift and tilt are about 2,600. Let me have a look around tonight and see if something can get worked out.

 

[Lucaswagg]

If your lift and tilt is working well, i'd doubt you would need to change the pump. Charge pressure is 90-110 PSI your lift and tilt are about 2,600. Let me have a look around tonight and see if something can get worked out.

Can someone give me some advise for how to get the port block loose from the pump?

 

[Tazza]

Can someone give me some advise for how to get the port block loose from the pump?

You need to remove the plug on the top, then you'll need to probably fabricate a jig to remove the nut at the bottom. I have never done it myself, but i hear its a slotted nut that you can use a piece of flat steel stock and a shifter to remove. The port block really doesn't need to come off unless you change the hydraulic pump.....

 

[Lucaswagg]

You need to remove the plug on the top, then you'll need to probably fabricate a jig to remove the nut at the bottom. I have never done it myself, but i hear its a slotted nut that you can use a piece of flat steel stock and a shifter to remove. The port block really doesn't need to come off unless you change the hydraulic pump.....

Well I have more news. I took my time cleaning, checking and surfacing the parts in my trans. I got it done today and set it back in the machine, started it up and it pulled good but I didn't have lift power. I shut it down for a minute then started it back up and worked the pedals until I started getting power to lift, then I tried moving it again when I got the bucket raised and now nothing again. It won't pull it self forward or backwards. Could in be air locked or something? how do you bleed the system? It had plenty of drive power until I started using the lift hydraulics. Does anyone have any idea what I an doing wrong here?? could I have a line backwards on my port block?

 

[Tazza]

Well I have more news. I took my time cleaning, checking and surfacing the parts in my trans. I got it done today and set it back in the machine, started it up and it pulled good but I didn't have lift power. I shut it down for a minute then started it back up and worked the pedals until I started getting power to lift, then I tried moving it again when I got the bucket raised and now nothing again. It won't pull it self forward or backwards. Could in be air locked or something? how do you bleed the system? It had plenty of drive power until I started using the lift hydraulics. Does anyone have any idea what I an doing wrong here?? could I have a line backwards on my port block?

You said you re-surfaced the parts, does that mean there were more scratches after you surfaced them last time?
Air should self purge. I found my lift was shuddering and the wheels didn't move rite away when i did mine. But after running it then shutting down, pilling the rams in and out to get oil moving a little more, the wheels started to rotate. I have always found the drive system to be less problematic with air in the system than the lift and tilt. It must be the style of pumps used, vane pumps hate air bubbles.
How long have you been running it?
The way i have always done a run after pulling a pimp is to have it blocked, start it and pull the levers forward or back, just let them spin for a little while, change direction. Then take it for a drive on flat ground and lift the arms and let them fall while moving. Let it sit for a few hours or come back to it, or even next day and repeat the process. It will take time to get all the air out. Letting it sit for a while allows the bubbles to burst in the oil tank and you will have nice fresh non foamy oil to draw in. This will continue untill all the air is gone.
It will self bleed, just give it time. I don't know why its causing so many problems with the drive though.... I'm not exactly sure where to advise to go from here. Everything you have done sounds correct.

 

[Lucaswagg]

You said you re-surfaced the parts, does that mean there were more scratches after you surfaced them last time?
Air should self purge. I found my lift was shuddering and the wheels didn't move rite away when i did mine. But after running it then shutting down, pilling the rams in and out to get oil moving a little more, the wheels started to rotate. I have always found the drive system to be less problematic with air in the system than the lift and tilt. It must be the style of pumps used, vane pumps hate air bubbles.
How long have you been running it?
The way i have always done a run after pulling a pimp is to have it blocked, start it and pull the levers forward or back, just let them spin for a little while, change direction. Then take it for a drive on flat ground and lift the arms and let them fall while moving. Let it sit for a few hours or come back to it, or even next day and repeat the process. It will take time to get all the air out. Letting it sit for a while allows the bubbles to burst in the oil tank and you will have nice fresh non foamy oil to draw in. This will continue untill all the air is gone.
It will self bleed, just give it time. I don't know why its causing so many problems with the drive though.... I'm not exactly sure where to advise to go from here. Everything you have done sounds correct.

The swash plate were in pretty rough shape again. I didn't surface the rotating group last time though. When I took it back apart it looked like it did before I did the original work on it. I pulled it all down, wiped out the housing and everything so I feel very confident that I done it all right. It had power like it should the second that I started it up. I only had it running for about less than a minute because I had jumper cables hooked up to start it. I shut it down to take them off so I could try to drive it around. When I started it back up I thought it would be a good idea to work the lift cylinders a few times and after about another minute or two of working the cylinders they was working good but it acted like it had no pressure at all to the wheels, it didn't even squal when I pushed the sticks all of the way forward and back. I only tried it for a minute because I was affraid I would damage all of the work I have done. I guess my next step is to block it up and try it to see if I can get the wheels turning. The thing is that when I first started it, it was great. Had all the power it was supposed to have but no lift. Now after I ran it for only a few minutes it has lift power and no drive. I put all new filters on and was very careful to keep it all clean. Is it possible that I might have a line wrong on the port block?

 

[Tazza]

The swash plate were in pretty rough shape again. I didn't surface the rotating group last time though. When I took it back apart it looked like it did before I did the original work on it. I pulled it all down, wiped out the housing and everything so I feel very confident that I done it all right. It had power like it should the second that I started it up. I only had it running for about less than a minute because I had jumper cables hooked up to start it. I shut it down to take them off so I could try to drive it around. When I started it back up I thought it would be a good idea to work the lift cylinders a few times and after about another minute or two of working the cylinders they was working good but it acted like it had no pressure at all to the wheels, it didn't even squal when I pushed the sticks all of the way forward and back. I only tried it for a minute because I was affraid I would damage all of the work I have done. I guess my next step is to block it up and try it to see if I can get the wheels turning. The thing is that when I first started it, it was great. Had all the power it was supposed to have but no lift. Now after I ran it for only a few minutes it has lift power and no drive. I put all new filters on and was very careful to keep it all clean. Is it possible that I might have a line wrong on the port block?

If the surfaces were scored again, you have something contaminating the oil. If everything was oiled up when you assembled it and everything was clean, it shouldn't have marked the brass wear/valve plates. As for wiping the housing out, you should acutally use solvent and compressed air. Lint from the fabric you use to wipe with can get stuck in places you don't want it to be, always solvent and air. Petrol works pretty well, it dries without residue.
I can't see a line being installed wrong could cause this problem, as you said it worked when you first started it up after the intital work was done.
The only thing i can suggest you check is the charge pressure. There should be a pressure sender on the port block. Remove this and install a 200 PSI gauge, it should be between about 90 and 120 PSI

 

[Lucaswagg]

If the surfaces were scored again, you have something contaminating the oil. If everything was oiled up when you assembled it and everything was clean, it shouldn't have marked the brass wear/valve plates. As for wiping the housing out, you should acutally use solvent and compressed air. Lint from the fabric you use to wipe with can get stuck in places you don't want it to be, always solvent and air. Petrol works pretty well, it dries without residue.
I can't see a line being installed wrong could cause this problem, as you said it worked when you first started it up after the intital work was done.
The only thing i can suggest you check is the charge pressure. There should be a pressure sender on the port block. Remove this and install a 200 PSI gauge, it should be between about 90 and 120 PSI

Well I feel like a total moron but here it is. I decided to mess with it again today. I noticed that the hydraulic tank cap didn't look like it was on right so I took it off to make sure it didn't get water in the tank from the rain we had this week. I looked down in the tank and didn't see any oil, so I shook it and still couldn't see the oil. I thought surely it didn't take the 2 gallons of fluid I put in it to charge the system but I went ahead and put another gallon in it and let it sit for about 4 hours. I started it up and it has great power. No squalling whining or anything. Everything appears to be working well. So I guess when I put the pump in 2 gallons of oil was enough to run the lift but not enough to run the tranny. I can't believe I was ready to take it to the dealer because I didn't have enough fluid in it! I can't thank you and this forum enough for helping get this going. I would have spent thousands on my machines if you hadn't supplied me the knowledge to do the work myself. I think I will be able to have it completed and put to work in about 2 weeks. Thank you again for all of your help!!

 

[jerry]

Well I feel like a total moron but here it is. I decided to mess with it again today. I noticed that the hydraulic tank cap didn't look like it was on right so I took it off to make sure it didn't get water in the tank from the rain we had this week. I looked down in the tank and didn't see any oil, so I shook it and still couldn't see the oil. I thought surely it didn't take the 2 gallons of fluid I put in it to charge the system but I went ahead and put another gallon in it and let it sit for about 4 hours. I started it up and it has great power. No squalling whining or anything. Everything appears to be working well. So I guess when I put the pump in 2 gallons of oil was enough to run the lift but not enough to run the tranny. I can't believe I was ready to take it to the dealer because I didn't have enough fluid in it! I can't thank you and this forum enough for helping get this going. I would have spent thousands on my machines if you hadn't supplied me the knowledge to do the work myself. I think I will be able to have it completed and put to work in about 2 weeks. Thank you again for all of your help!!

Nice to know you have it worked out. Isn't there a oil level indicator on the outside of the tank, either a sight glass or two petcocks, one for high and one for low? If not they may have been removed or knocked off by previous owner.

 

[Tazza]

Nice to know you have it worked out. Isn't there a oil level indicator on the outside of the tank, either a sight glass or two petcocks, one for high and one for low? If not they may have been removed or knocked off by previous owner.

The oil sure does disappear fast when you have the system drained! I had that too, i started it, no movement then all of a sudden, the level dropped (you can see a slight shadow on the tank) top it up and it was good to keep going.
Just run it every few hours or leave it over night to let the oil settle. It will take time to get all the air out, but it will happen eventually. Then the hydraulics will run smooth again.
Glad it was such a simple fix.

 

[Lucaswagg]

The oil sure does disappear fast when you have the system drained! I had that too, i started it, no movement then all of a sudden, the level dropped (you can see a slight shadow on the tank) top it up and it was good to keep going.
Just run it every few hours or leave it over night to let the oil settle. It will take time to get all the air out, but it will happen eventually. Then the hydraulics will run smooth again.
Glad it was such a simple fix.

Is it normal for the hydraulic tank to start gurgling after I shut it down? I took it out today and played around a little bit in the gravel and seemed to do ok. It wasn't smooth at all but it I assume its still full of air because of the bubbling noise the hydraulic tank makes every time I shut it down. Is it ok to run it while it still has air in the system?

 

[Tazza]

Is it normal for the hydraulic tank to start gurgling after I shut it down? I took it out today and played around a little bit in the gravel and seemed to do ok. It wasn't smooth at all but it I assume its still full of air because of the bubbling noise the hydraulic tank makes every time I shut it down. Is it ok to run it while it still has air in the system?

It will gurgle for a little while. Its just air bubbles. Give it time.
When your lift and tilt are smooth and no squeeling from the pump, the gurgling will stop.