s 130 and bob-tach backhoe problem

[gopal]

Hi , I am new here and I would like to ask help from experts. I have recently bought the S 130 Skidstear Bobcat along with the Bobtach Backhoe. Unfortunately after barely 50 hours of operation I noticed something unusual and alarming: when I press the bucket of the Bobtach Backhoe to the ground for digging, this causes the Bobtach Backhoe plate and the Bobtach plate to separate by approximately 4cm at the bottom where the 2 wedge "pins" hold the attachment in place. When that happens the 2 wedge "pins" are left sticking out of the 2 holes in the Bobtach Backhoe by just 2 cm, this gap closes the moment I lift the Bobtach Backhoe of the ground. This cycle of separating and closing happens throughout the digging process. I am now at 250 hours and the problem has drastically worsened; the gap that occurs during the digging has increased and the wedge "pins" now only hold the Bobtach backhoe by the tip end. Needless to say that it is obvious that it is only a matter of time before disaster happens if I continue working with this problem. I am in urgent need of professional advice on why this is happening and what to do to solve the problem. Thanking you in advance, Pascal.H

 

[soutthpaw]

if you are able to post some pics of the backhoe and bobtach showing the issue or at least links to pics that would help.. That is one problem of that style of attachment. there is a tremendous amount of force being put on that mounting plate. My guess is the mounting plate on the backhoe has stretched or bent at the top or the bottom mounting holes have stretched wider

 

[dirtbiker245]

if you are able to post some pics of the backhoe and bobtach showing the issue or at least links to pics that would help.. That is one problem of that style of attachment. there is a tremendous amount of force being put on that mounting plate. My guess is the mounting plate on the backhoe has stretched or bent at the top or the bottom mounting holes have stretched wider

yes, pictures are definitely needed. Its either the bob tach plate is bent, or your bob tach recieving plate on the backhoe is bent. or your bob tach pins could be worn down.... maybe? lol. Well definitely post some pictures and we will go from there. If you have access to a welder, this should be fixable with a nice sludge hammer to knock it back in place and a welder to put some extra pieces of steel on there to strengthen it all up a little bit.

 

[gopal]

yes, pictures are definitely needed. Its either the bob tach plate is bent, or your bob tach recieving plate on the backhoe is bent. or your bob tach pins could be worn down.... maybe? lol. Well definitely post some pictures and we will go from there. If you have access to a welder, this should be fixable with a nice sludge hammer to knock it back in place and a welder to put some extra pieces of steel on there to strengthen it all up a little bit.

How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work.

 

[Luthor]

How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work.

I have the same problem when using my mini hoe (FFC) if I omit to fit the additional clamps that actually pull the bottom of the Bobtach and the attachment plate together. With all that leverage trying to pull the attachment off the Bobtach it is common for the spring loaded wedge pins to retract slightly and if you do continue to operate it will eventually cause damage. You need to fit some sort of clamping mechanism as low down on the Bobtach as possible.

 

[OldMachinist]

How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work.

"How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work."
The images have to be hosted on a web server(PhotoBucket or some other hosting site) and then copy and paste will work.

 

[TriHonu]

"How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work."
The images have to be hosted on a web server(PhotoBucket or some other hosting site) and then copy and paste will work.

Quote: gopal - "How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work."

See Eric's Tutorial on Posting Pictures.

 

[muddybuddy]

Quote:
gopal - "How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work."


See Eric's Tutorial on Posting Pictures.

Sounds to me like the curved part at the top of your bobtach plate has fatigued some - thus the curved portion has become more curved. I used a hydraulic 6 ton c- clamp and some heat from my torch to straighten the curve back to its original shape - then welded a small piece of metal in the curve to give it more strength.

 

[gopal]

How on earth do you post photos on the forum?! Copy and Paste just dos not work.

Hello, first of all thank you all for your time and help I sincerely appreciate it.
Southpaw and Dirtbiker, I have checked my backhoe and Bobtach plates and found they were bent by only 2mm and therefore believe that this can not be the problem. Regarding the photos (thank you very much Trihono and Oldmachinist for your help) I am still trying to download them as my internet connection is super bad and slow, hope I succeed.

Luthor, you speak of clamps, did you make them yourself or did you get them from Bobcat? Because you are right, after reading your post I did notice that the pressure of the backhoe on the wedged part of the pin meant to keep the backhoe in place actually pushes the pin upwards and thus allowing the bottom of the backhoe to move. The spring meant to hold the pin down seems unable to do its job. Why does Bobcat sell ill designed mechanism? Like I said my Bobcat and backhoe are brand new and have had little time to wear out. Please if possible give me more details of the clamps you speak of. Thanks and regards

 

[Luthor]

Hello, first of all thank you all for your time and help I sincerely appreciate it.
Southpaw and Dirtbiker, I have checked my backhoe and Bobtach plates and found they were bent by only 2mm and therefore believe that this can not be the problem. Regarding the photos (thank you very much Trihono and Oldmachinist for your help) I am still trying to download them as my internet connection is super bad and slow, hope I succeed.

Luthor, you speak of clamps, did you make them yourself or did you get them from Bobcat? Because you are right, after reading your post I did notice that the pressure of the backhoe on the wedged part of the pin meant to keep the backhoe in place actually pushes the pin upwards and thus allowing the bottom of the backhoe to move. The spring meant to hold the pin down seems unable to do its job. Why does Bobcat sell ill designed mechanism? Like I said my Bobcat and backhoe are brand new and have had little time to wear out. Please if possible give me more details of the clamps you speak of. Thanks and regards

No problem gopal, I will post some pictures of the clamps on my mini hoe. They are actually part of the hoe not the bobtach and I will be changing them soon to give more clamping force by adding an extra bolt each side instead of relying on just one 3/4'' bolt.

 

[TriHonu]

No problem gopal, I will post some pictures of the clamps on my mini hoe. They are actually part of the hoe not the bobtach and I will be changing them soon to give more clamping force by adding an extra bolt each side instead of relying on just one 3/4'' bolt.

Luthor probably has the best solution. An additional set of clamps to counteract the leverage the backhoe is exerting on the Bobtach.
My neighbor had the same problem with a large Gehl skid steer. His pins were retracting when back-dragging with the bucket. The dealer wanted to sell him a new bucket.
I talked him into welding a couple of beads where the "Bobtach" pins engage the quicktach on the bucket. He then used a die grinder and a file to smooth the beads to the same angle as the bevel on the pins. He has not had a problem since.
Check the contact area where your pins engage the holes in the quicktach. If they have worn, you may want to try to weld them up.

 

[gopal]

Luthor probably has the best solution. An additional set of clamps to counteract the leverage the backhoe is exerting on the Bobtach.
My neighbor had the same problem with a large Gehl skid steer. His pins were retracting when back-dragging with the bucket. The dealer wanted to sell him a new bucket.
I talked him into welding a couple of beads where the "Bobtach" pins engage the quicktach on the bucket. He then used a die grinder and a file to smooth the beads to the same angle as the bevel on the pins. He has not had a problem since.
Check the contact area where your pins engage the holes in the quicktach. If they have worn, you may want to try to weld them up.

Hi again, I am still stuck with my problem, but first let me add a detail I forgot to mention but should have (sorry). My Bobtach cracked 3 times not far from both levers that keep the backhoe attached to the Bobtach! The bobcat dealer replaced the Bobtach 2 times and reinforced the area once but still it cracks. I think the two problems are related: the movement of the backhoe causes the crack? So when I told an engineer that I was going to make 2 clamps to hold my backhoe in place he told me that this movement is necessary and if I stop it I would only push the problem on to the next weaker spot and I will get a crack there. I still don't believe that having the backhoe holding on by the tip end (10mm) of the pins is normal?!

One more question (probably silly): is it normal for my S130 to go faster reverse than forward??

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Hi again, I am still stuck with my problem, but first let me add a detail I forgot to mention but should have (sorry). My Bobtach cracked 3 times not far from both levers that keep the backhoe attached to the Bobtach! The bobcat dealer replaced the Bobtach 2 times and reinforced the area once but still it cracks. I think the two problems are related: the movement of the backhoe causes the crack? So when I told an engineer that I was going to make 2 clamps to hold my backhoe in place he told me that this movement is necessary and if I stop it I would only push the problem on to the next weaker spot and I will get a crack there. I still don't believe that having the backhoe holding on by the tip end (10mm) of the pins is normal?!

One more question (probably silly): is it normal for my S130 to go faster reverse than forward??

Speed should be the same forward or reverse, you likely need to make some adjustments on the steering lever linkages or the pintle arms on top of the pump are loose.
As for the hoe, the engineer is likely right. Either you are going to have to find a more gentle way to dig with this attachmentor continue reinforcing things. Is the attachment a Bobcat brand? I ask because I'm surprized they even warranteed this. I know one manufacturer of these hoes installs a cross over relief valve on the bucket cylinder lines (@ $70) to reduce the stress, but this also reduces the digging power of the hoe.
I hate to say it, but imo, the only real fix for this problem is to buy a standard backhoe attachment, the bobtach hoes are just a bad idea, a used real hoes can be had for 3500 and it will still be worth 3500 when you done with it and it won't tear up your machine.
I have seen alot of busted equipment, and the evil ways stress work on a a design. I have also done alot of fabrication to reinforce something to where it will last, and it can be a long multi step process.
Unfortunately for this attachment the bobtach was designed to be loaded from the top down, not from the bottom up. I was surpised to see Bobcat build one of these hoes, as a proper installation of one should include a heavy duty bobtach with massives lower pins and heavy pin bosses.
Hope you find a solution
Ken

 

[gopal]

Speed should be the same forward or reverse, you likely need to make some adjustments on the steering lever linkages or the pintle arms on top of the pump are loose.
As for the hoe, the engineer is likely right. Either you are going to have to find a more gentle way to dig with this attachmentor continue reinforcing things. Is the attachment a Bobcat brand? I ask because I'm surprized they even warranteed this. I know one manufacturer of these hoes installs a cross over relief valve on the bucket cylinder lines (@ $70) to reduce the stress, but this also reduces the digging power of the hoe.
I hate to say it, but imo, the only real fix for this problem is to buy a standard backhoe attachment, the bobtach hoes are just a bad idea, a used real hoes can be had for 3500 and it will still be worth 3500 when you done with it and it won't tear up your machine.
I have seen alot of busted equipment, and the evil ways stress work on a a design. I have also done alot of fabrication to reinforce something to where it will last, and it can be a long multi step process.
Unfortunately for this attachment the bobtach was designed to be loaded from the top down, not from the bottom up. I was surpised to see Bobcat build one of these hoes, as a proper installation of one should include a heavy duty bobtach with massives lower pins and heavy pin bosses.
Hope you find a solution
Ken

Thanks a lot for your help Ken, yes my Bobtach hoe is bobcat brand and it is brand new, I to am coming to the conclusion that the Bobtach backhoe is a faulty design and what upsets me big time is that it was Dusan (Bobcat) that advised me to by this Bobcat with this Bobtach hoe. I recently went to there go down to check if the problem happens on a new machine, the result: yes it dos even while digging in soft earth the problem remains and that to both on the S130 and the S250 …! If i do go in for a new hoe the 607 hoe is to bulky for my application, would the 506 work on the S130 ?

 

[gopal]

Thanks a lot for your help Ken, yes my Bobtach hoe is bobcat brand and it is brand new, I to am coming to the conclusion that the Bobtach backhoe is a faulty design and what upsets me big time is that it was Dusan (Bobcat) that advised me to by this Bobcat with this Bobtach hoe. I recently went to there go down to check if the problem happens on a new machine, the result: yes it dos even while digging in soft earth the problem remains and that to both on the S130 and the S250 …! If i do go in for a new hoe the 607 hoe is to bulky for my application, would the 506 work on the S130 ?

Hi again, I finally managed to upload my photos: views of the wedge pins before and after the movement occurs between the lower part of the Bobtach and Bobtach backhoe plates and a view of the Bobcat to show the angle at which I dig.
Has anyone bought a Bobtach backhoe recently?
Once again thank you all for your time and valuable help. Regards, a desperate Bobcat owner.

 

[waggles]

Hi again, I finally managed to upload my photos: views of the wedge pins before and after the movement occurs between the lower part of the Bobtach and Bobtach backhoe plates and a view of the Bobcat to show the angle at which I dig.
Has anyone bought a Bobtach backhoe recently?
Once again thank you all for your time and valuable help. Regards, a desperate Bobcat owner.

Is the frame of the bob tach backhoe bent at all ? This could be forcing the pins back up when in use causing it to become looser as it wears. It looks like too much leverage is causing stress on the bobtach, you say the dealer has replaced it twice? Those pins are taking all the stress when digging , I dont believe it was designed properly for this to be happening . It needs to be bolted hard against the bobtach to stop the movement and take the load off the pins. Problem is then its not a fast change attachment, I would be talking seriously with your dealer about this not being up to the job!

 

[Sbdrums24]

Is the frame of the bob tach backhoe bent at all ? This could be forcing the pins back up when in use causing it to become looser as it wears. It looks like too much leverage is causing stress on the bobtach, you say the dealer has replaced it twice? Those pins are taking all the stress when digging , I dont believe it was designed properly for this to be happening . It needs to be bolted hard against the bobtach to stop the movement and take the load off the pins. Problem is then its not a fast change attachment, I would be talking seriously with your dealer about this not being up to the job!

We had the same problem on a t190... The bob tach hoe kept coming off because it was pulling the pins up and the back hoe plate was separating from the Bob tach plate. All we did was thicken the metal on the back hoe plate around the square hole on both sides. We laid extra metal on the top of the bottom squares (hope that makes sense) and the problem went away. Haven't had a problem since and used the back hoe a lot. We love this attachment. We added a thumb to it and off we went. We rip bushes out with ease, plant trees etc...

 

[new13]

We had the same problem on a t190... The bob tach hoe kept coming off because it was pulling the pins up and the back hoe plate was separating from the Bob tach plate. All we did was thicken the metal on the back hoe plate around the square hole on both sides. We laid extra metal on the top of the bottom squares (hope that makes sense) and the problem went away. Haven't had a problem since and used the back hoe a lot. We love this attachment. We added a thumb to it and off we went. We rip bushes out with ease, plant trees etc...

I had the same problem with the bob-tach backhoe plate and the bob-tach plate on my s160 separating when putting downward pressure on the bucket. I put a 5000 lb. ratchet strap around the backhoe plate and the skid steer plate and no more separation between the plates. It works great! Hope it helps.