My Bobcat 751 with Peugeot Engine Timing belt and water pump swap

[jerry]

After fully charging the battery the whine is still there, it goes away with high rpm it seems, I ran it for maybe 30 minutes yesterday so get hydraulics warm, but i dont think it's them it never did that before i tightened down the timing belt. Maybe i made it too tight. Or maybe its coming from the fam pulley.
Here is a vide of the noise
http://youtu.be/FnQ5i9MTGtA

If you had to use a ratchet to spin the water pump , that does not sound right. Maybe take another look at it in case it was the cause of the belt jumping. Nice to have the video though.

 

[shawn macananny]

If you had to use a ratchet to spin the water pump , that does not sound right. Maybe take another look at it in case it was the cause of the belt jumping. Nice to have the video though.

The injection pump and camshaft were both off almost 90degrees from what I could tell. I meant when I spun the engine with the ratchet not the water pump haha. I didn't try to spin the water pump itself. Maybe the teeth on my crank are messed up. I couldn't get ththe pulley off, tapping it with a hammer so I just left it and wrapped the belt back on. It wasn't covered in any oil or coolant or anything. Maybe I just tightened the timing belt too much and itll wear in a little and be fine

 

[Tazza]

The injection pump and camshaft were both off almost 90degrees from what I could tell. I meant when I spun the engine with the ratchet not the water pump haha. I didn't try to spin the water pump itself. Maybe the teeth on my crank are messed up. I couldn't get ththe pulley off, tapping it with a hammer so I just left it and wrapped the belt back on. It wasn't covered in any oil or coolant or anything. Maybe I just tightened the timing belt too much and itll wear in a little and be fine

If it was me, i'd remove the belt again, give the water pump a spin to see if it still feels smooth. I don't like that sound, not one bit.
Have you disconnected the alternator? just to be sure it's not as simple as a bearing in it.

 

[shawn macananny]

If it was me, i'd remove the belt again, give the water pump a spin to see if it still feels smooth. I don't like that sound, not one bit.
Have you disconnected the alternator? just to be sure it's not as simple as a bearing in it.

Yeah i dont like that sound at all, i cant imagine its a bent valve or damaged cam or anything, it runs too good, but the sounds was not there before this no start issue happened over the course of a week. I havent removed the alternator or fan belt yet to check it out. hopefully i will get around to it this weekend, ill be rebuilding both axles in my suburban and installing 4.88s on Saturday so if all that goes well ill get to it Sunday. I dont plan on using it, it seems very strange to me that this sound just started when i line the timing belt up. It was strang that i couldnt get the crank pulley off, it wasnt stuck when i orginally pulled it apart. I made some adjustments to the injection pump timing but i put it back where it was before i adjusted it and it all seems to run perfectly fine.

 

[shawn macananny]

Yeah i dont like that sound at all, i cant imagine its a bent valve or damaged cam or anything, it runs too good, but the sounds was not there before this no start issue happened over the course of a week. I havent removed the alternator or fan belt yet to check it out. hopefully i will get around to it this weekend, ill be rebuilding both axles in my suburban and installing 4.88s on Saturday so if all that goes well ill get to it Sunday. I dont plan on using it, it seems very strange to me that this sound just started when i line the timing belt up. It was strang that i couldnt get the crank pulley off, it wasnt stuck when i orginally pulled it apart. I made some adjustments to the injection pump timing but i put it back where it was before i adjusted it and it all seems to run perfectly fine.

Well it stopped raining out so i decided to go check it out tonight. I unhooked fan belt, still made the noise, unhooked the alternator, still made the noise. I dissembled it all and removed the timing belt, all idlers are fine, spin freely and no play, water pump spins freely maybe a tiny tiny bit if play but i would cal it normal. No grinding or anything when pulling sideways on it with a good amount of pressure and spinning it
the worst part is a tapped the crank pulley to remove it, because it was stuck, and i actually broke it, i tapped it with a rubber mallet too, not even a plastic or dead blow hammer. I gotta go try to find one of those now, i cant believe i broke that. It wouldnt budge i ended up heating it up gradually with a torch and banging it around with the rubber mallet and some pb blaster until it came free.

 

[shawn macananny]

Well it stopped raining out so i decided to go check it out tonight. I unhooked fan belt, still made the noise, unhooked the alternator, still made the noise. I dissembled it all and removed the timing belt, all idlers are fine, spin freely and no play, water pump spins freely maybe a tiny tiny bit if play but i would cal it normal. No grinding or anything when pulling sideways on it with a good amount of pressure and spinning it
the worst part is a tapped the crank pulley to remove it, because it was stuck, and i actually broke it, i tapped it with a rubber mallet too, not even a plastic or dead blow hammer. I gotta go try to find one of those now, i cant believe i broke that. It wouldnt budge i ended up heating it up gradually with a torch and banging it around with the rubber mallet and some pb blaster until it came free.

I've had no luck online finding a replacement pulley. all the peugeot pulleys i could find are 6 rip style. I was thinking of getting one then machines two grooves out of the 6 but i think it would be too close. The other option is the buy this pulley, and machine the boore from 1.125" to 1.161". I will call the dealer tomorrow and see if they can even get the part. I see one hole drilled for blancing but it weighs maybe 2lbs, not much so i am not sure how important it is to the engine being balanced, or how much damage it would cause if i couldnt get the right one for the http://www.ebay.com/itm/300718844951

 

[Tazza]

I've had no luck online finding a replacement pulley. all the peugeot pulleys i could find are 6 rip style. I was thinking of getting one then machines two grooves out of the 6 but i think it would be too close. The other option is the buy this pulley, and machine the boore from 1.125" to 1.161". I will call the dealer tomorrow and see if they can even get the part. I see one hole drilled for blancing but it weighs maybe 2lbs, not much so i am not sure how important it is to the engine being balanced, or how much damage it would cause if i couldnt get the right one for the http://www.ebay.com/itm/300718844951

That's some shitty luck rite there.... I see no problem at all machining the bore of the pulley out to make it fit the crank.
Still not good that you can't locate the noise, it's not the drive belt side either....
I'd doubt it's a valve too, that sounds different and the fact it runs well.

 

[shawn macananny]

That's some shitty luck rite there.... I see no problem at all machining the bore of the pulley out to make it fit the crank.
Still not good that you can't locate the noise, it's not the drive belt side either....
I'd doubt it's a valve too, that sounds different and the fact it runs well.

Haha yeah some bad luck i suppose, I'm seeing it as good luck though being my timing belt jumped so many teeth and didnt bend valves. I am thinking maybe the belt stretched some since you have to tighten the tensioner up and dont leave it to put pressure on it, so maybe it wont do it again. Everything was lined up still when i took it apart today
I don't have a lathe i was thinking maybe i could dremel the .035" out of the center of it haha but it wouldnt be even im sure. Though the keyway and bolt should hold 99% of the force of the pulley, and even if the pulley were out of round by the full .035" i dont think it would matter a whole heck of a lot. After i call bobcat tomorrow to see about getting one i will probably get that pulley there and just grind it out. It's only 4.45" and the stock pulley is 4.760" but i dont think a 1/4" will make a huge difference driving a fan and alternator.
Speaking of the fan how is it lubricated? I noticed mine looks like its wet in a few places, I've never added any fluid to the gear boxes/bearings for it is it just fed with engine oil or hydrailic fluid?

 

[Tazza]

Haha yeah some bad luck i suppose, I'm seeing it as good luck though being my timing belt jumped so many teeth and didnt bend valves. I am thinking maybe the belt stretched some since you have to tighten the tensioner up and dont leave it to put pressure on it, so maybe it wont do it again. Everything was lined up still when i took it apart today
I don't have a lathe i was thinking maybe i could dremel the .035" out of the center of it haha but it wouldnt be even im sure. Though the keyway and bolt should hold 99% of the force of the pulley, and even if the pulley were out of round by the full .035" i dont think it would matter a whole heck of a lot. After i call bobcat tomorrow to see about getting one i will probably get that pulley there and just grind it out. It's only 4.45" and the stock pulley is 4.760" but i dont think a 1/4" will make a huge difference driving a fan and alternator.
Speaking of the fan how is it lubricated? I noticed mine looks like its wet in a few places, I've never added any fluid to the gear boxes/bearings for it is it just fed with engine oil or hydrailic fluid?

I believe it runs 90 weight oil in the fan.
I'm not convinced that a dremel will do the job well enough, do you have any friends that have a lathe that may be able to do the work for you?
.035" is a fair bit to have it wobble around, you will never get it spot on with a dremel.

 

[shawn macananny]

I believe it runs 90 weight oil in the fan.
I'm not convinced that a dremel will do the job well enough, do you have any friends that have a lathe that may be able to do the work for you?
.035" is a fair bit to have it wobble around, you will never get it spot on with a dremel.

Yeah i think you are right. I can just take it to my machine shop that does my head work, he can do it no problem.

 

[shawn macananny]

Yeah i think you are right. I can just take it to my machine shop that does my head work, he can do it no problem.

Well i thoguht i'd update. I ended up ordering a pulley from the Bobcat dealer, $205, since i looked at it and it needs to recess into the timing gear on the crank and rather than saving about $50 by the time i drove to my machine shop and hour away twice, it just made more sense. I just got it all installed and the noise is still there. I'm pretty srue its from tightening the timing belt a little too much so i left it like that, i dont want it to stretch and slip teeth, i dont think it will break, but i'll be sure to let you know if it does haha.
I did look up the manual and find the fill plug for the fan differential. it's a 3/8" allen wrench. It does take 75w90 gear oil. I opened it up and couldnt see any oil in it, so i filled it up with some red line heavy shockproof oil, because its what i had extra laying around haha. It took a half quart, and this oil is the best ive found for any problem gear boxes, it's a 75w oil for viscosity but films to a 250w.

 

[Tazza]

Well i thoguht i'd update. I ended up ordering a pulley from the Bobcat dealer, $205, since i looked at it and it needs to recess into the timing gear on the crank and rather than saving about $50 by the time i drove to my machine shop and hour away twice, it just made more sense. I just got it all installed and the noise is still there. I'm pretty srue its from tightening the timing belt a little too much so i left it like that, i dont want it to stretch and slip teeth, i dont think it will break, but i'll be sure to let you know if it does haha.
I did look up the manual and find the fill plug for the fan differential. it's a 3/8" allen wrench. It does take 75w90 gear oil. I opened it up and couldnt see any oil in it, so i filled it up with some red line heavy shockproof oil, because its what i had extra laying around haha. It took a half quart, and this oil is the best ive found for any problem gear boxes, it's a 75w oil for viscosity but films to a 250w.

Good to hear you serviced the blower, they are always neglected, shame the noise is there still......

 

[jlpierce70]

The pics don't show up, not sure if shawn macananny is still active on this site, looks like he hasn't logged in in a while. If you are still out there, I'd love to have you email me the pics if you still have them on your computer. I'm thinking about doing the water pump and timing belt just as preventive maintenance since that seems to be the big worry on the Peugeot engine. Before anyone says it. I've heard it before.... "why put money into a Peugeot?" Bla bla bla. I own it. Its paid for. I'm happy with it. A few hundred dollars to try to keep it healthy is worth it to me. I'm just an average guy who uses it from time to time to move snow or other random jobs. It lives a pretty easy life overall and it would make less sense to buy a different machine and pay more plus pay tax. Besides I enjoy working on things so write it off as a hobby project. Anyway... Any advice about doing the job would be welcomed. Any other things to check out while I'm playing mechanic? Over looked maintenance that I should do?

 

[shawn macananny]

The pics don't show up, not sure if shawn macananny is still active on this site, looks like he hasn't logged in in a while. If you are still out there, I'd love to have you email me the pics if you still have them on your computer. I'm thinking about doing the water pump and timing belt just as preventive maintenance since that seems to be the big worry on the Peugeot engine. Before anyone says it. I've heard it before.... "why put money into a Peugeot?" Bla bla bla. I own it. Its paid for. I'm happy with it. A few hundred dollars to try to keep it healthy is worth it to me. I'm just an average guy who uses it from time to time to move snow or other random jobs. It lives a pretty easy life overall and it would make less sense to buy a different machine and pay more plus pay tax. Besides I enjoy working on things so write it off as a hobby project. Anyway... Any advice about doing the job would be welcomed. Any other things to check out while I'm playing mechanic? Over looked maintenance that I should do?

I am still around but do not have the pictures on my computer still. I actually just sold the machine last year, had it for over 8 years and several hundred hours. One frustrating issue i had with it was the glow plug system, which i found the relay lighting up and not actually engaging. That led to me thinking it was just hard to start. Once i replaced it with a manual button it would start down into the teens with no issues. The only reason i got rid of it was because i found a good deal on a 2 speed S220 with cab and AC. I'd check the fan out for oil level, the timing belt wasn't hard, i actually did have it skip a tooth once when a bolt from the plastic cover vibrated loose and went through the timing belt but didn't damage anything. I also broke a balancer pulley tapping it off one time. They are $240 from the dealer or so, i purchased a spare on Ebay at one point for like $35 when i saw one after i had forked out the dealer price. I also changed the injection pump and injectors at one point because i thought they were acting up but it turned out it was the glow plug relay not working properly. The injectors and injection pump i used was from a toro mower and they worked fine. Oh yeah, the biggest issue i had was the fuel tank. It was ALWAYS plugging up the suction strainer, then the tiny elbow on the fuel filter inlet. Then i had issues with the water freezing in the bottom of the tank and plugging it up. I ended up abandoning the tank entirely, mounting a 12 gallon round fuel tank to the rear door, a large fuel filter with water separator that gravity fed the pump and man did that make the biggest difference ever. Never had a single loss of power or fuel issue again. There's nothing wrong with the Peugeot engine. Had plenty enough power for the size of the machine.

 

[Tazza]

I am still around but do not have the pictures on my computer still. I actually just sold the machine last year, had it for over 8 years and several hundred hours. One frustrating issue i had with it was the glow plug system, which i found the relay lighting up and not actually engaging. That led to me thinking it was just hard to start. Once i replaced it with a manual button it would start down into the teens with no issues. The only reason i got rid of it was because i found a good deal on a 2 speed S220 with cab and AC. I'd check the fan out for oil level, the timing belt wasn't hard, i actually did have it skip a tooth once when a bolt from the plastic cover vibrated loose and went through the timing belt but didn't damage anything. I also broke a balancer pulley tapping it off one time. They are $240 from the dealer or so, i purchased a spare on Ebay at one point for like $35 when i saw one after i had forked out the dealer price. I also changed the injection pump and injectors at one point because i thought they were acting up but it turned out it was the glow plug relay not working properly. The injectors and injection pump i used was from a toro mower and they worked fine. Oh yeah, the biggest issue i had was the fuel tank. It was ALWAYS plugging up the suction strainer, then the tiny elbow on the fuel filter inlet. Then i had issues with the water freezing in the bottom of the tank and plugging it up. I ended up abandoning the tank entirely, mounting a 12 gallon round fuel tank to the rear door, a large fuel filter with water separator that gravity fed the pump and man did that make the biggest difference ever. Never had a single loss of power or fuel issue again. There's nothing wrong with the Peugeot engine. Had plenty enough power for the size of the machine.

I have nothing to say about the pug engines, i had a 751 for a while, it ran great, they are very smooth motorts, the starters are a bit small for my liking, but they do the job all the same.
I outlined what to do for replacing the water pump and timing belt in my earlier posts, if i got it down with hardly any tools, you can too.
For parts, check ebay.co.uk as ug cars are far more popular over there and easier to get them instead of the dealer. A pump, idler, belt do not need to be from the bobcat dealer.

 

[jlpierce70]

I am still around but do not have the pictures on my computer still. I actually just sold the machine last year, had it for over 8 years and several hundred hours. One frustrating issue i had with it was the glow plug system, which i found the relay lighting up and not actually engaging. That led to me thinking it was just hard to start. Once i replaced it with a manual button it would start down into the teens with no issues. The only reason i got rid of it was because i found a good deal on a 2 speed S220 with cab and AC. I'd check the fan out for oil level, the timing belt wasn't hard, i actually did have it skip a tooth once when a bolt from the plastic cover vibrated loose and went through the timing belt but didn't damage anything. I also broke a balancer pulley tapping it off one time. They are $240 from the dealer or so, i purchased a spare on Ebay at one point for like $35 when i saw one after i had forked out the dealer price. I also changed the injection pump and injectors at one point because i thought they were acting up but it turned out it was the glow plug relay not working properly. The injectors and injection pump i used was from a toro mower and they worked fine. Oh yeah, the biggest issue i had was the fuel tank. It was ALWAYS plugging up the suction strainer, then the tiny elbow on the fuel filter inlet. Then i had issues with the water freezing in the bottom of the tank and plugging it up. I ended up abandoning the tank entirely, mounting a 12 gallon round fuel tank to the rear door, a large fuel filter with water separator that gravity fed the pump and man did that make the biggest difference ever. Never had a single loss of power or fuel issue again. There's nothing wrong with the Peugeot engine. Had plenty enough power for the size of the machine.

Thanks for the response, I've been crazy busy lately, I read the responses on my phone but never got back on to thank you both!!!

 

[Tazza]

Thanks for the response, I've been crazy busy lately, I read the responses on my phone but never got back on to thank you both!!!

Not an issue, good luck with the repair!