Machining Referance Material

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OldMachinist

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I've uploaded some reference material to the photo section here.
http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=52&gallerypage=0&path=Machining
This material was from when I taught machine shop at the local tech school. I taught for about 10 years as a second job. Some of this material is my original work and is available for your personal use. Please do not publish elsewhere without permission. Please read the safety information before you attempt any home machining projects. If any of the images are not clear and you would like me to email them to let know. My upload speed is kind of slow so only request what really need.
 

Tazza

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Unfortunately when you upload to the media section it automatically lowers the quality to reduce the size taken. Can you possibly e-mail me these pages? as i really can't read the text...
taz38sup at yahoo.com.au
 
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OldMachinist

OldMachinist

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perry

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I've added to the material on PhotoBucket. This is all material copied from other sources.
http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Machine%20Shop/Batch%202/?albumview=grid
I also think that any one interested in the machinist trade should read the article at this link.
http://www.goiam.org/publications/pdfs/decradation_of_the_american_machinist.pdf
Thanks, good info. A fella down the road has a CNC and we were talking about the reduced costs of these machines over the last few years. He believes, in the 'near' future, the costs of a good used low end CNC will be within reach.
 

Fishfiles

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Thanks, good info. A fella down the road has a CNC and we were talking about the reduced costs of these machines over the last few years. He believes, in the 'near' future, the costs of a good used low end CNC will be within reach.
I can relate to machine work , I love to build things , this morning it is raining and the boat is in the shop getting some welding done , I can weld aluminum , but the spots are where I am going to have to look at the welds alot and I don't like looking at ugly , so I am out in the garage prepping some jobs to do and needed a 7/8 hole saw , but the set screw from the mandel was missing out the arbor , have got a a few arbors but only one that will work with a saw so small diameter , so armed with ESPN fishing on TV and a pot of coffee , I used a set screw I had and cut it in half of length , rethreaded the arbor to 1/4 28 , but needed a bottoming tap , which I couldn't find to do the job right and have the set screw recess into the arbor to allow the saw to fit over it , found a few starter 1/4 28's taps so I grinded the last few threads off and made a bottom tap , which got me to a couple of thousandths , so still had to grind a bit off the flat spot of the bit where the set screw impacts , but got it to work , could have easily went to Home Depot on this Sunday morning , stop and got some fresh donuts and coffee , read the paper in the time it took to do it , it exceeded the cost of what it was worth , but it was a satisfying accomplishment while passing the time watching the Shark Chalange --------Perry I see in the 'not too far off furtue' you will probally be able to put a "part "and a chuck of material into a microwave oven looking thing and it will scan and duplicate it while you get a drink
 
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OldMachinist

OldMachinist

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Thanks, good info. A fella down the road has a CNC and we were talking about the reduced costs of these machines over the last few years. He believes, in the 'near' future, the costs of a good used low end CNC will be within reach.
I have watched the CNC machines grow up from the first machines with thumb wheels that you spun for your coordinates and took days to program to the newest conversational machines that you just download your CAD developed solid model into and set your tools and go. I've programmed more different types of controls than I can remember and still do write some programs at home for a couple of shops.

The problem with CNC machines is their lifespan is not the same as the conventional machine shop equipment. In 5 years a CNC machine has been typically been run nearly 20 hours a day 5 days a week so would have more than 20,000 hours on it. Even a 30-year-old conventional machine wouldn't have that many hours. Now don't get me wrong I love the CNC machines for production work but for the home machinist the maintenance and repair costs are going to be hard to justify. After a machine is 7 years old the manufacturers don't have to stock parts for them any more and that's when things start getting real pricey because their business goal is to sell you a new machine every 5 years. And don't forget that unless it's conversational control you'll need CAD-CAM software to write programs to run it. For years some manufacturers have been toying with the idea of making machines controlled by a personal computer but until that happens you're at their mercy if something goes wrong with the control. I've seen shops sink thousands of dollars into a used machine trying to get it running only to give up and pass it along to the next sucker. I could go for hours here telling the horror stories of buying used CNC machines but I think you get the idea.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now and see what hornets nest I've stirred this time..
 

Fishfiles

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I have watched the CNC machines grow up from the first machines with thumb wheels that you spun for your coordinates and took days to program to the newest conversational machines that you just download your CAD developed solid model into and set your tools and go. I've programmed more different types of controls than I can remember and still do write some programs at home for a couple of shops.

The problem with CNC machines is their lifespan is not the same as the conventional machine shop equipment. In 5 years a CNC machine has been typically been run nearly 20 hours a day 5 days a week so would have more than 20,000 hours on it. Even a 30-year-old conventional machine wouldn't have that many hours. Now don't get me wrong I love the CNC machines for production work but for the home machinist the maintenance and repair costs are going to be hard to justify. After a machine is 7 years old the manufacturers don't have to stock parts for them any more and that's when things start getting real pricey because their business goal is to sell you a new machine every 5 years. And don't forget that unless it's conversational control you'll need CAD-CAM software to write programs to run it. For years some manufacturers have been toying with the idea of making machines controlled by a personal computer but until that happens you're at their mercy if something goes wrong with the control. I've seen shops sink thousands of dollars into a used machine trying to get it running only to give up and pass it along to the next sucker. I could go for hours here telling the horror stories of buying used CNC machines but I think you get the idea.
I'll climb down from my soapbox now and see what hornets nest I've stirred this time..
Talking about parts not available after so many years , I always thought a truck was 10 years , but just got burned with 8 1/2 years by Dodge , a 1999 turbo Cummins in a 3500 1 ton has some plastic throttle rod ball joints that had rubber inserts inside the cup , they deteriated and fell off and you can't rev the engine , Dodge no longer available part , tried country wide dealerships , Cummins engne distributors , Napa , Car Quest and all the after market outlets , tried heavy equipment parts deptments as the Cummins engines and in Kamatsu and Case to name a few , finally I found a marine dealer that had a balljoint that could be modified to work , the problem was 1/4 threads on a 60 series (3/8) ball joint , the joint on the governor arm was welded on and access was so that drilling it out and replacing the ball with out removing the governor arm was too much too tight , I think removing the pump would have been easier , my choice of modifing the ball joit end to fit was either get the 1/4 x 40 and enlarge the ball joint cup or get the 3/8 thread x 60 ball and fab a new rod which included a double bend and thread on both sides , so I enlarged the cup with a grinder wth a round carbide tip , it was much more heavy duty than the OEM
 

perry

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Talking about parts not available after so many years , I always thought a truck was 10 years , but just got burned with 8 1/2 years by Dodge , a 1999 turbo Cummins in a 3500 1 ton has some plastic throttle rod ball joints that had rubber inserts inside the cup , they deteriated and fell off and you can't rev the engine , Dodge no longer available part , tried country wide dealerships , Cummins engne distributors , Napa , Car Quest and all the after market outlets , tried heavy equipment parts deptments as the Cummins engines and in Kamatsu and Case to name a few , finally I found a marine dealer that had a balljoint that could be modified to work , the problem was 1/4 threads on a 60 series (3/8) ball joint , the joint on the governor arm was welded on and access was so that drilling it out and replacing the ball with out removing the governor arm was too much too tight , I think removing the pump would have been easier , my choice of modifing the ball joit end to fit was either get the 1/4 x 40 and enlarge the ball joint cup or get the 3/8 thread x 60 ball and fab a new rod which included a double bend and thread on both sides , so I enlarged the cup with a grinder wth a round carbide tip , it was much more heavy duty than the OEM
Oldmachinist, I can't even imagine the costs of CNC repair, heck!, I can't even spell that many zeros. I have a mill and a lathe but still much to learn before I tackle detailed projects.
Are there any sort of CNC machine sharing organizations?, sure would be nice.
 

Tazza

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Messages
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Oldmachinist, I can't even imagine the costs of CNC repair, heck!, I can't even spell that many zeros. I have a mill and a lathe but still much to learn before I tackle detailed projects.
Are there any sort of CNC machine sharing organizations?, sure would be nice.
My aunt/uncle had a CNC mill for making pectic injection molds. The repair costs were just insane!!! $10,000 or more for a computer PCB. One machine they bought NEW was very expensive, not sure exactly how much... anyway, the deal is they MUST provide spare parts for no less than 10 years over here. The PC part stooped working after say 5 years and they were told its no longer made and you would need to buy a new machine. Then the fighting started, as by law they must provide parts for no less than 10 years on a new machine. While they were fighting to get a new board they had to buy a new machine (from someone else of course) while the old one got repaired.
They are getting cheaper but still out of reach for the common handyman/woman.
 
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OldMachinist

OldMachinist

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I've added to the material on PhotoBucket. This is all material copied from other sources.
http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/calfranch/Machine%20Shop/Batch%202/?albumview=grid
I also think that any one interested in the machinist trade should read the article at this link.
http://www.goiam.org/publications/pdfs/decradation_of_the_american_machinist.pdf
I will be adding more material as I come across it in my files so you'll need to check the photobucket link occasionally for updates.
I've recently added info about v-belt grooves, pulley diameter chart and formulas for pulley speeds.
 

Tazza

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Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
16,840
I will be adding more material as I come across it in my files so you'll need to check the photobucket link occasionally for updates.
I've recently added info about v-belt grooves, pulley diameter chart and formulas for pulley speeds.
OldMachinist - can you send me an e-mail? i need to machine out the alloy housings that the steering levers clamp to. Mine have worn out where the nylon bushings go on the housing! I have an idea of how to machine them out, was just wondering if i could run it all past you and you may have better ideas. My e-mail is "taz38sup at yahoo.com.au" at = @ or course.
As i have said before, i have been taught a lot but never hurts to get another point of view.
 

Luthor

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OldMachinist - can you send me an e-mail? i need to machine out the alloy housings that the steering levers clamp to. Mine have worn out where the nylon bushings go on the housing! I have an idea of how to machine them out, was just wondering if i could run it all past you and you may have better ideas. My e-mail is "taz38sup at yahoo.com.au" at = @ or course.
As i have said before, i have been taught a lot but never hurts to get another point of view.
Tazza, I think you are refering to the housing that has the very thin, split nylon bushes. If so I would not attempt to machine it because you may ruin it, I have honed mine out right through to clean up wear and fitted oversize bushes to suit. Ring around for someone who has a honing machine with the right size long mandrel to do it for you and save all the hassle. It should only cost about $50 or so because the process is very fast.
 

Tazza

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Tazza, I think you are refering to the housing that has the very thin, split nylon bushes. If so I would not attempt to machine it because you may ruin it, I have honed mine out right through to clean up wear and fitted oversize bushes to suit. Ring around for someone who has a honing machine with the right size long mandrel to do it for you and save all the hassle. It should only cost about $50 or so because the process is very fast.
Hey Luthor, these are kinda beefy bushings actually, not the split ones like i have on my 743s. You are rite that the housing is sort of thin, but easily enough to machine a bit more to make the hole round and parallel again. I can then install bronze or nylon again. Honing is an option, but it would be very slow for someone to do, there is quite a lot of wear for some reason.
Essentially my idea was a boring bar to fit in the chuck of the lathe. Building it with a pilot to hold it parallel. Using my tail stock to hold the end of the housing flat (the pilot will help here too) then using the tail stock to advance the housing into the boring bar to cut the metal while holding the housing against the tail stock as a stop. I just hope it can hold the housing steady enough while its cutting. Even if it tie it back to the tail stock for stability. Both housings have the same wear on the outer sides, the part closest to the main frame. The inner part isn't worn anywhere near as bad.
Just another job to do i guess. I just need this weather to clear up so i can finish pulling the machine down to paint and get it moving a bit! its bees sitting for almost 6 months. All i have done is got the engine running and the pump cleaned and i flattened the swash plates while inside. The engine still needs a coat of paint and a pile of hoses!
 

Luthor

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Hey Luthor, these are kinda beefy bushings actually, not the split ones like i have on my 743s. You are rite that the housing is sort of thin, but easily enough to machine a bit more to make the hole round and parallel again. I can then install bronze or nylon again. Honing is an option, but it would be very slow for someone to do, there is quite a lot of wear for some reason.
Essentially my idea was a boring bar to fit in the chuck of the lathe. Building it with a pilot to hold it parallel. Using my tail stock to hold the end of the housing flat (the pilot will help here too) then using the tail stock to advance the housing into the boring bar to cut the metal while holding the housing against the tail stock as a stop. I just hope it can hold the housing steady enough while its cutting. Even if it tie it back to the tail stock for stability. Both housings have the same wear on the outer sides, the part closest to the main frame. The inner part isn't worn anywhere near as bad.
Just another job to do i guess. I just need this weather to clear up so i can finish pulling the machine down to paint and get it moving a bit! its bees sitting for almost 6 months. All i have done is got the engine running and the pump cleaned and i flattened the swash plates while inside. The engine still needs a coat of paint and a pile of hoses!
Tazza, can you post a photo of the part with a rule next to it to add some scale. I specialize in repair and overhaul, mainly of aircraft parts, and can always come up with a solution to a machining problem.
 

Tazza

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Tazza, can you post a photo of the part with a rule next to it to add some scale. I specialize in repair and overhaul, mainly of aircraft parts, and can always come up with a solution to a machining problem.
Sure, i'll have to do it when i get a chance.
OldMachinist has given me some pointers as well. Using an expanding reamer and a pilot on my lathe. I will need to confirm the inside of the housing is indeed machines out and not just rough cast and the ends machined..... My only concern is getting everything machined so its in-line.
 

Luthor

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Sure, i'll have to do it when i get a chance.
OldMachinist has given me some pointers as well. Using an expanding reamer and a pilot on my lathe. I will need to confirm the inside of the housing is indeed machines out and not just rough cast and the ends machined..... My only concern is getting everything machined so its in-line.
The expading reamer method may do the job but would not be my preffered method. Do you have access to one in the correct size and with a pilot? Make sure the cutting edges of the blades are sharp otherwise it mess up the hole. Even with a pilot you can still have problems keeping the bores in line with each other so be carefull. What material is the housing made from?
 

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