LS 180 Loss of hydraulic pressure in lift and tilting back

[Scottree]

My LS 180 has been a work horse. Today we lost power on the lift and also he tilting back of the bucket. No loss of power to the drive. When we try to lift it will barely move up with a load. We have not tried lifting without an attachment. We are a tree farm and run a tree spake on the machine full time. Thanks for any help.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Sounds like either the relief valve failed or the drive on the hydraulic pump broke resulting in no or minimal pressure in the hydraulic system.
The hydrostats the drive the wheels are a different circuit.
If it won't even try to lift the empty bucket, or spade in this case, kinda betting on the pump.
Of course this assumes you not low on oil or have a blown hose but if the wheels still drive that part must be fine.
Do you know if this machine has a separate pump for charge pressure for the hydrostats?
Many use the hydraulic pump for that as well, and if the drives still work you must still have charge pressure, that would rule out a broke pump on many models, but not if the charge pump is separate on your 180.
Also search tradebit.com for a pdf manual if you don't have one already. For @ 30 bucks you can't afford not to have one if your having trouble.
Also this post will get moved to the New Holland section, so be prepared to look for it there.
Skidsteer.ca

 

[Scottree]

Sounds like either the relief valve failed or the drive on the hydraulic pump broke resulting in no or minimal pressure in the hydraulic system.
The hydrostats the drive the wheels are a different circuit.
If it won't even try to lift the empty bucket, or spade in this case, kinda betting on the pump.
Of course this assumes you not low on oil or have a blown hose but if the wheels still drive that part must be fine.
Do you know if this machine has a separate pump for charge pressure for the hydrostats?
Many use the hydraulic pump for that as well, and if the drives still work you must still have charge pressure, that would rule out a broke pump on many models, but not if the charge pump is separate on your 180.
Also search tradebit.com for a pdf manual if you don't have one already. For @ 30 bucks you can't afford not to have one if your having trouble.
Also this post will get moved to the New Holland section, so be prepared to look for it there.
Skidsteer.ca

Thank you for your input skdisteer.ca This morning on a first test the machine is lifting and tilting. I will send it out and see what happens when it get the oil hot. I was assuming that the filter would also affect the hydrostat but maybe it does not and maybe the filter is restricting the flow. Yesterday when this happened we did a some lifting pressure but it was probably 3-5%. Not hardly enough to lift it and get it out of the field. Thanks for any further comments. Skip

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Thank you for your input skdisteer.ca This morning on a first test the machine is lifting and tilting. I will send it out and see what happens when it get the oil hot. I was assuming that the filter would also affect the hydrostat but maybe it does not and maybe the filter is restricting the flow. Yesterday when this happened we did a some lifting pressure but it was probably 3-5%. Not hardly enough to lift it and get it out of the field. Thanks for any further comments. Skip

Skip
Ok I'm going with something got caught in the relief valve and prevented it from sealing. But of course cold thick oil will make it hard for the il to leak away through the relief too. Hopefully it's still behaveing once its warm
I'd suggest finding what your relief pressure spec should be (psi) and conecting a guage to the front couplers and testing the systems pressure while the oil is cool and warm to see if the relief is holding all it should be.
Skidsteer.ca

 

[Jmyallen]

Skip
Ok I'm going with something got caught in the relief valve and prevented it from sealing. But of course cold thick oil will make it hard for the il to leak away through the relief too. Hopefully it's still behaveing once its warm
I'd suggest finding what your relief pressure spec should be (psi) and conecting a guage to the front couplers and testing the systems pressure while the oil is cool and warm to see if the relief is holding all it should be.
Skidsteer.ca

Hello, I know this is an old thread but figured I would try here before I started a new one on the same topic... I have an lx485 that is doing the same thing as this owners skid steer was doing.. the bucket and boom operates normal lifting tilting with out a load but will barley lift any weight for example an 900 lb round bale. My dad who was the mechanic unexpectedly passed away a few weeks ago at work so I'm trying to figure this out on my own. He had the cover off the controll body that is by your feet in the cab so he was trying to track down something. I've been reading about possibly the pressure relief valve but just found out there is 2, main pressure and boom pressure so not sure which one to try as the main is pretty expensive. I know I helped him about 2 years ago replace the charge pump I believe it was when the bolts broke off the bell housing and nothing worked at that time Thanks in advance. Jeremy

 

[walio123]

Hello, I know this is an old thread but figured I would try here before I started a new one on the same topic... I have an lx485 that is doing the same thing as this owners skid steer was doing.. the bucket and boom operates normal lifting tilting with out a load but will barley lift any weight for example an 900 lb round bale. My dad who was the mechanic unexpectedly passed away a few weeks ago at work so I'm trying to figure this out on my own. He had the cover off the controll body that is by your feet in the cab so he was trying to track down something. I've been reading about possibly the pressure relief valve but just found out there is 2, main pressure and boom pressure so not sure which one to try as the main is pretty expensive. I know I helped him about 2 years ago replace the charge pump I believe it was when the bolts broke off the bell housing and nothing worked at that time Thanks in advance. Jeremy

Are the bucket movements strong? If they are strong under load, the problem is probably the boom relief valve. If they are too weak The problem is in the main relief valve or the gear pump. These things are expensive and I recommend that you test the hydraulic system to make sure what is wrong. It is not good to buy something very expensive and it turns out that the damage is elsewhere.

 

[Jmyallen]

Are the bucket movements strong? If they are strong under load, the problem is probably the boom relief valve. If they are too weak The problem is in the main relief valve or the gear pump. These things are expensive and I recommend that you test the hydraulic system to make sure what is wrong. It is not good to buy something very expensive and it turns out that the damage is elsewhere.

The bucket and boom movement is normal without a load but weak under load for example pick up a hay bale or putting firewood in the bucket. The loader runs good moves good and turns good.

 

[walio123]

The bucket and boom movement is normal without a load but weak under load for example pick up a hay bale or putting firewood in the bucket. The loader runs good moves good and turns good.

It may be a relief valve stuck or bad gear pump. To adjust reliev valve you will need a tester., Also for checking pump. Do not force the valve without a pressure gauge, as it can cause a great deal of damage. Find someone who can find the damage with tester that can measure pressure and flow, both/pump and reliev valve/ are not cheap.

 

[Jmyallen]

It may be a relief valve stuck or bad gear pump. To adjust reliev valve you will need a tester., Also for checking pump. Do not force the valve without a pressure gauge, as it can cause a great deal of damage. Find someone who can find the damage with tester that can measure pressure and flow, both/pump and reliev valve/ are not cheap.

Ok thanks I will see if I can track someone down with guages then. The pressure relief valve on this unit is not adjustable thought, you have to replace it

 

[walio123]

Ok thanks I will see if I can track someone down with guages then. The pressure relief valve on this unit is not adjustable thought, you have to replace it

The valve is adjustable. Shims are placed between the spring and cap screw to increase pressure.

 

[Jmyallen]

The valve is adjustable. Shims are placed between the spring and cap screw to increase pressure.

Ok maybe I missing something. The repair manual says the non repairable, non adjustable, cartridge style pressure relief valve is set from the factory and must be replaced if defective. When I took it out of the controll valve it just looks like a bigger bolt with some holes drilled through the center with a screen and lock ring at the end The part number is #86507522 if you want to take a look at what I'm talking about Thanks

 

[walio123]

Ok maybe I missing something. The repair manual says the non repairable, non adjustable, cartridge style pressure relief valve is set from the factory and must be replaced if defective. When I took it out of the controll valve it just looks like a bigger bolt with some holes drilled through the center with a screen and lock ring at the end The part number is #86507522 if you want to take a look at what I'm talking about Thanks

I looked at the diagram and yes, the relief valve is not adjustable. If it is the reason the Aux hydraulics should also be weak. Is that correct? is bucket curl also weak under load ? And how it became the weakening of the hydraulics- smoothly, gradually or abruptly? Once the movements are fast without a load, the chances are that the damage is relif valve is great. If only the boom is weak, I can see that there is also a boom port relief valve. It is the probable cause in th case that only boom is weak under load. Boom relief valve is Item 29 on picture. https://partstore.construction.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr63392ar380160

 

[Jmyallen]

I looked at the diagram and yes, the relief valve is not adjustable. If it is the reason the Aux hydraulics should also be weak. Is that correct? is bucket curl also weak under load ? And how it became the weakening of the hydraulics- smoothly, gradually or abruptly? Once the movements are fast without a load, the chances are that the damage is relif valve is great. If only the boom is weak, I can see that there is also a boom port relief valve. It is the probable cause in th case that only boom is weak under load. Boom relief valve is Item 29 on picture. https://partstore.construction.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr63392ar380160

Ok thanks. You are correct the bucket curl and boom raise are both equally weak under load. I'm not certain about how it started because it was my dad's machine and this how it's been acting up for me the last couple times I'v tried running it. I know he had the cover off the controll valve so I'm betting he was either going to replace that relief valve or do a pressure test on it.

 

[walio123]

Ok thanks. You are correct the bucket curl and boom raise are both equally weak under load. I'm not certain about how it started because it was my dad's machine and this how it's been acting up for me the last couple times I'v tried running it. I know he had the cover off the controll valve so I'm betting he was either going to replace that relief valve or do a pressure test on it.

Remove the boom relief valve. examine the two valves well. Is it possible to exchange their positions ?, if possible do it. If only the boom remains weak, you will surely know the damage. If the bucket is still weak, the pump is probably damaged.

 

[tech.35058]

Remove the boom relief valve. examine the two valves well. Is it possible to exchange their positions ?, if possible do it. If only the boom remains weak, you will surely know the damage. If the bucket is still weak, the pump is probably damaged.

The part number you indicate is item#13 in the referenced drawing, described as 2475 psi relief valve, while item #29 is described as a 3500psi releif valve. Even if they fit, swapping them might not be a good idea. If you already have the valve out, how do the seals look? Also, pressing/depressing gthe valve "slug" with probe may let you wash out the valve with parts cleaner/ether/(anything else) and blow out with compressed air. Also consider ref#17. Seems like there should be more than one of these (2,3,4,or6?) A little debris goes a long way. If you find debris, what is it & where did it come from? Good luck ... ce

 

[Jmyallen]

The part number you indicate is item#13 in the referenced drawing, described as 2475 psi relief valve, while item #29 is described as a 3500psi releif valve. Even if they fit, swapping them might not be a good idea. If you already have the valve out, how do the seals look? Also, pressing/depressing gthe valve "slug" with probe may let you wash out the valve with parts cleaner/ether/(anything else) and blow out with compressed air. Also consider ref#17. Seems like there should be more than one of these (2,3,4,or6?) A little debris goes a long way. If you find debris, what is it & where did it come from? Good luck ... ce

Thanks guys for the help. The two valves were not interchangeable,the boom relief valve is external and the main is internal. However I found a guy who has a know working valve who let me borrow it from his machine and put it in mine.... Nothing changed. So I would say the gear pump is toast?. I found a new pump for $320. It looks like it's just 2 bolts and 2 hydraulic lines and and the pump is out and put the new one in, is that correct? Anything else I would need? Thanks