J.D. CTL-333D problem with Tilt (bucket)

[SkidTracks]

Having problems with Tilt (bucket) on John Deere CTL 333D. There are three problems related to Tilt. The problems may not be caused by the same thing. One of the three problems has been confirmed to exist on a different (brand new) CTL 333D. Thus that problem is likely a design or manufacturing defect. The dealer and John Deere have made no progress in fixing any of the Tilt problems. Wondering if anyone owning or using a CTL 333D (or possibly related CTL model) has seen one of these Tilt problems? ------------------------- Problem #1) When the auxiliary hydraulics are being used for example with a brush hog, the CTL's Tilt slowly goes downward as if there is slight leak. Easily exceeding the machine's specified maximum amount of leak Tilt down. The boom is not effected and remains where it was set. The slow Tilt disappears if the auxiliary hydraulics are not in use (brush hog not spinning) and the CTL is stationary. The speed of the Tilt increases if the load on the brush hog increases. This Tilt problem has been seen when the CTL is having to carry heavy bucket load up hill, in essence calling for lots of hydraulic power to go to the transmission. ------------------------- Problem #2) When the auxiliary hydraulics are being used fox example with a brush hog and the brush hog becomes bogged down (turning slowly or nearly stalled), commanding a Tilt Up (raise front of brush hog) the Tilt instead goes down very rapidly (drops the front of brush hog). This Tilt down (drop) of course bogs the brush hog down even worse and again commanding the CTL to Tilt Up has no effect. Like problem #1, the boom is unaffected. This problem like #1 will happen with another attachment that uses auxiliary hydraulics to power a hydraulic motor. ------------------------- Problem #3) A command to Tilt Downward (take a bigger bite with a bucket) following a command to Tilt Upward (lessen the bite of a bucket) results in the Tilt Downward initially doing the opposite (Tilt Upward), before finally Tilting Downward. This Tilt problem will happen with a bucket, forks, box blade, or other attachments regardless of whether the auxiliary hydraulics are being used. This problem has been seen on another (new) CTL 333D. The problem makes it very hard to do leveling or grading work, and nearly impossible to make saw cuts. The problem can be seen when attempting to raise the machine to proper height to set the Track Tension. ------------------------- Any John Deere CTL or Skid Steer owners / users seen one or more of these Tilt problems?

 

[Bobcatdan]

I don't know what to tell you other then it's a new machine, make deere make it right, thats what you buy a brand new machine for. I think it would be throwing money away to take it eleswhere and I wouldn't go trying to fix stuff myself, deere warranty isn't going to like that. There is nothing wrong trying to find info, but these should be deere's baby.

 

[SkidTracks]

I don't know what to tell you other then it's a new machine, make deere make it right, thats what you buy a brand new machine for. I think it would be throwing money away to take it eleswhere and I wouldn't go trying to fix stuff myself, deere warranty isn't going to like that. There is nothing wrong trying to find info, but these should be deere's baby.

I agree it should be Deere's baby. However, despite four requests (two through dealer and two direct) over several weeks to John Deere Corporate for a customer support person (Field Rep.) to contact me, no Field Rep has. The CTL-333D has now been at the selling dealer's for over three weeks, and is still not fixed. I was told by the dealer a John Deere tech had looked at the machine and decided a Hydraulic Spool needed replacing. The dealer does not know when the part(s) will arrive, how long it will take to install the part(s), or whether the part(s) will resolve all three Tilt problems. On the positive side, at least the dealer is finally going to replace something vs. just reading pressures, tweaking settings, and BSing. As for replacing part(s), that is something I suggested to the dealer should have happened during week #2. The response was it was too costly to them. My response, it was costing me, thus they should have to share the burden. A machine like it leases for roughly $4,000 / month! The dealer has made no progress on an unrelated intermittent problem that I was able to demonstrate to their repair guy. What I enquirered about the problem, what I got was a bunch of non-sense from the dealer's repair guy; that sounded like he had no working knowledge of the machine. Hopefully, this explains why I was trying to find out if anyone else has seen similar problems. I was getting no where with dealer or John Deere, and have lost confidence in their technical and trouble shooting abilities.

 

[Tazza]

I agree it should be Deere's baby. However, despite four requests (two through dealer and two direct) over several weeks to John Deere Corporate for a customer support person (Field Rep.) to contact me, no Field Rep has. The CTL-333D has now been at the selling dealer's for over three weeks, and is still not fixed. I was told by the dealer a John Deere tech had looked at the machine and decided a Hydraulic Spool needed replacing. The dealer does not know when the part(s) will arrive, how long it will take to install the part(s), or whether the part(s) will resolve all three Tilt problems. On the positive side, at least the dealer is finally going to replace something vs. just reading pressures, tweaking settings, and BSing. As for replacing part(s), that is something I suggested to the dealer should have happened during week #2. The response was it was too costly to them. My response, it was costing me, thus they should have to share the burden. A machine like it leases for roughly $4,000 / month! The dealer has made no progress on an unrelated intermittent problem that I was able to demonstrate to their repair guy. What I enquirered about the problem, what I got was a bunch of non-sense from the dealer's repair guy; that sounded like he had no working knowledge of the machine. Hopefully, this explains why I was trying to find out if anyone else has seen similar problems. I was getting no where with dealer or John Deere, and have lost confidence in their technical and trouble shooting abilities.

That is just stupid. Every day its down, you are loosing money. They should at least give you a machine to use while yours is being 'fixed'.
The problem is after you have bought the machine and you are claiming warranty, they basically have you by the nads. They don't really care how long it takes to repair as they have already have your money.
I hope they get it sorted out soon and that the problem is fixed for good.

 

[Bobcatdan]

That is just stupid. Every day its down, you are loosing money. They should at least give you a machine to use while yours is being 'fixed'.
The problem is after you have bought the machine and you are claiming warranty, they basically have you by the nads. They don't really care how long it takes to repair as they have already have your money.
I hope they get it sorted out soon and that the problem is fixed for good.

If they think there is a problem with a spool in the vavle, the whole vavle should be replaces, last I knew most parts in the control vavle are not available, have to get the whole vavle. I use to work for a Deere dealer. Deere warranty does not pay for dianogtic, just the repair. That said, there is no reason they should not be bending over backwards. It is not about selling you a machine, it about selling you machines for years to come.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

If they think there is a problem with a spool in the vavle, the whole vavle should be replaces, last I knew most parts in the control vavle are not available, have to get the whole vavle. I use to work for a Deere dealer. Deere warranty does not pay for dianogtic, just the repair. That said, there is no reason they should not be bending over backwards. It is not about selling you a machine, it about selling you machines for years to come.

The problem with the tilt dropping when the brush cutter stalls is common though through NH and Bobcat too. Once the aux hyd circuit goes over relief the tilt will have no power until you shut flow off to the brusher or get the cutter spinning again.
As for the rest I can't say...
Ken

 

[Bobcatdan]

The problem with the tilt dropping when the brush cutter stalls is common though through NH and Bobcat too. Once the aux hyd circuit goes over relief the tilt will have no power until you shut flow off to the brusher or get the cutter spinning again.
As for the rest I can't say...
Ken

Skidsteer you got me thinking. Does the brush hog have a pressure gauge on it so you can watch what you are running at? On a bobcat brushcat, there is a gauge on it you can see from the cab. There is an operating range that the operater needs to stay in to prevent stalling. The fact you say you are stalling it out, seems to tell me you are feeding the brush hog to fast.

 

[SkidTracks]

Skidsteer you got me thinking. Does the brush hog have a pressure gauge on it so you can watch what you are running at? On a bobcat brushcat, there is a gauge on it you can see from the cab. There is an operating range that the operater needs to stay in to prevent stalling. The fact you say you are stalling it out, seems to tell me you are feeding the brush hog to fast.

The brush hog does not have a pressure gauge. Best I can do is listen (through closed cab) for slow down and sounds of loading. However, by that time the Tilt has already quit responding. Raising the boom is dangerous because it can put the operator (aka me) in the path of the blades (flying objects).

 

[SkidTracks]

If they think there is a problem with a spool in the vavle, the whole vavle should be replaces, last I knew most parts in the control vavle are not available, have to get the whole vavle. I use to work for a Deere dealer. Deere warranty does not pay for dianogtic, just the repair. That said, there is no reason they should not be bending over backwards. It is not about selling you a machine, it about selling you machines for years to come.

I have gotten some slightly different information on the problem. I being told there is a problem with recycling circuit (although not listed in the Technical manual) and spool valves. To resolve the problem the dealer is going to replace the CTL-333D's hydraulic control spool valves with a different model's control (? CTL-329D ?). With Tilt problem #3 having been seen on another (brand new) CTL-333D and replacing the spool valves with different model, it appears there is a design issue unique to 333D hydraulic controls. Whether replacing the spool valves with a different model's to nix (disable) the recycling circuit (whatever that is) will actually fix all three Tilt problems and not cause new problems is unknown.

 

[Tazza]

I have gotten some slightly different information on the problem. I being told there is a problem with recycling circuit (although not listed in the Technical manual) and spool valves. To resolve the problem the dealer is going to replace the CTL-333D's hydraulic control spool valves with a different model's control (? CTL-329D ?). With Tilt problem #3 having been seen on another (brand new) CTL-333D and replacing the spool valves with different model, it appears there is a design issue unique to 333D hydraulic controls. Whether replacing the spool valves with a different model's to nix (disable) the recycling circuit (whatever that is) will actually fix all three Tilt problems and not cause new problems is unknown.

I sure hope it fixes the problem too. Seems they stuffed up with the redesign of the control block. Shame they don't get something working and leave it alone.
I know it's not doing you a whole lot of good with it at the dealer while it should be out making you money.

 

[SkidTracks]

This is just some free advice, based on the lacking and poor response from J.D. and after it taking numerous weeks of messing in the field, a total of 6-weeks (1-week @ local dealer + 5-weeks @ selling dealer) in repair; only to get back a yellow boat-anchor (more repair work has to be done). If you are small business (less than several million dollars in size) or a person (aka small landowner/farmer), you would be wise to avoid the CTL-333D. If you are large operator who can afford N+1 machines (aka spare) or a business big enough to have a Lawyer (aka mega-bucks), thus having some clout with a global sized company, then proceed with a CTL-333D - forewarned. If this sounds to harsh, bare in mind; you (or your company) could be forced to deal with repair and service issues for as long as your warranty lasts (multiple years or thousands of machine hours). In short, your married to it. To be fair, part of my negative views, is the result of the selling dealer and selling dealer's company, failing to make proper repairs in a timely and reasonable manner and taking the issues seriously. Still the dealer's company is an authorized J.D. warranty repair center for the CTL-333D. Thus, design defects or manufacturing problems are J.D.'s responsibility to see are properly and promptly repaired. If I were J.D., I would have taken the "Bull by the Horns" to make things right with the customer (loaner or reimbursement for leasing similar machine) and I would have put the selling dealer's company on notice they risk being dumped as a dealer.

 

[Tazza]

This is just some free advice, based on the lacking and poor response from J.D. and after it taking numerous weeks of messing in the field, a total of 6-weeks (1-week @ local dealer + 5-weeks @ selling dealer) in repair; only to get back a yellow boat-anchor (more repair work has to be done). If you are small business (less than several million dollars in size) or a person (aka small landowner/farmer), you would be wise to avoid the CTL-333D. If you are large operator who can afford N+1 machines (aka spare) or a business big enough to have a Lawyer (aka mega-bucks), thus having some clout with a global sized company, then proceed with a CTL-333D - forewarned. If this sounds to harsh, bare in mind; you (or your company) could be forced to deal with repair and service issues for as long as your warranty lasts (multiple years or thousands of machine hours). In short, your married to it. To be fair, part of my negative views, is the result of the selling dealer and selling dealer's company, failing to make proper repairs in a timely and reasonable manner and taking the issues seriously. Still the dealer's company is an authorized J.D. warranty repair center for the CTL-333D. Thus, design defects or manufacturing problems are J.D.'s responsibility to see are properly and promptly repaired. If I were J.D., I would have taken the "Bull by the Horns" to make things right with the customer (loaner or reimbursement for leasing similar machine) and I would have put the selling dealer's company on notice they risk being dumped as a dealer.

You are spot on there. I know if a dealer was doing the wrong thing that i'd pass on the word that they are doing so. That would hurt sales and the company that supplies them should think long and hard if they want them as a reseller or not. Bad reviews means they will shop for another brand.
If there was an issue and the dealer kept me in the loop and did all they could, i'd have no problem. But when they lie and stall, that's when i'd start to get cranky.
They should have loan machines so that you can still operate your business, every hour down, it's not making you money to pay for it! and every day in the shop is one more day of warranty gone too.