HELP. 743 axle seals

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Tazza

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Does anyone know what number the axle seals are on a 743? the ones i removed have no numbers on them, the bearings do at least.

I hope to not replace the wear rings, i hope to just linish the old ones (they have no wear marks on them).

Goodtech, the oil seal installation tool, are you able to get any measurements of one at all? i know you can buy them off clark but i bet they want a fortune for it. They look simple to make but i need dimensions if i can get them, if not i will have to just fudge it. As for tightening the bolts, the manual says like 450 ft lbs how on earth do you get them that tight? my torque wrench doesn't get anywhere near that. And you can't fit a socket on the bolt, never mind a wrench on to the end on the socket! I am leaning to the idea of just putting locktight on the threads and do them up around as tight as they were when i removed them.
 

goodtech

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Hey there Tazz, yes the tool is pretty spendy but they are simple, so I when I go back to work on Tuesday I will try and remember to get some measurements for you. As for the 450 ft lbs what I usaully do is start the machine with my wrench in there and let the machine tighten it, If the unit cannot run, I through a bunch of red loctite on the bolt and double wrench it the best as I can. One more thing to look at also make sure that your axle is tight it does not move in or out, if it does bobcat makes a thicker washer for the bolt and it will take any of your slop out of the axle. I will get you those specs though for that tool. Have a good new year, oh ya if we have a seal in stock I will try and get you a seal number also.
 

Tazza

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Hey there Tazz, yes the tool is pretty spendy but they are simple, so I when I go back to work on Tuesday I will try and remember to get some measurements for you. As for the 450 ft lbs what I usaully do is start the machine with my wrench in there and let the machine tighten it, If the unit cannot run, I through a bunch of red loctite on the bolt and double wrench it the best as I can. One more thing to look at also make sure that your axle is tight it does not move in or out, if it does bobcat makes a thicker washer for the bolt and it will take any of your slop out of the axle. I will get you those specs though for that tool. Have a good new year, oh ya if we have a seal in stock I will try and get you a seal number also.
Excellent, thank you.

I have worked out a way to get the axle seal in i think, i cut 2 bearing cups in half and used 2 hose clamps to hold them together, it did work to an extent on an old seal when i tested it but i'm sure it wasn't square. I would prefer to use the rite tool for the job. As for the bolts, i got a large ring spanner from a friend and held the bolt inside and i made an adaptor that bolts on to the hub. Here is a piccie of it, i hope it is bobcatapproved.

http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/bobcat/120_2099.jpg

I used this to remove the old bolts and they were no where near 450 ft lbs. They did have a small amount of axle float, i did read in my manual you get washers from bobcat to fix this. I will be replacing the bearings, bearing cups and seals so hopefully this float will be corrected, if not i will get some spacers. I swear the chain case was never cleaned, there was black sludge on the bottom. I removed the reduction gear box (had to do it to remove the chains) and there was sludge behind the gear box where it bolts to the chain case, with shards of metal in black sludge.... In the gear boxes there is NO movement in the shafts and almost no back lash on the gears, so i have no idea where this metal is from, there is only a small amount of it at least. I sure hope the bearings won't set me back too much, but its a job i really don't want to ever do again on a machine that is still assembled.

The manual says to use a slide hammer to get the axles out, LIES, i used a small hydraulic bottle jack, pumped it up quite tight then hit the other side with a copper hammer and BING it was free, very simple and effective.
Thanks again, and happy new year!
 

Tazza

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Excellent, thank you.

I have worked out a way to get the axle seal in i think, i cut 2 bearing cups in half and used 2 hose clamps to hold them together, it did work to an extent on an old seal when i tested it but i'm sure it wasn't square. I would prefer to use the rite tool for the job. As for the bolts, i got a large ring spanner from a friend and held the bolt inside and i made an adaptor that bolts on to the hub. Here is a piccie of it, i hope it is bobcatapproved.

http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/bobcat/120_2099.jpg

I used this to remove the old bolts and they were no where near 450 ft lbs. They did have a small amount of axle float, i did read in my manual you get washers from bobcat to fix this. I will be replacing the bearings, bearing cups and seals so hopefully this float will be corrected, if not i will get some spacers. I swear the chain case was never cleaned, there was black sludge on the bottom. I removed the reduction gear box (had to do it to remove the chains) and there was sludge behind the gear box where it bolts to the chain case, with shards of metal in black sludge.... In the gear boxes there is NO movement in the shafts and almost no back lash on the gears, so i have no idea where this metal is from, there is only a small amount of it at least. I sure hope the bearings won't set me back too much, but its a job i really don't want to ever do again on a machine that is still assembled.

The manual says to use a slide hammer to get the axles out, LIES, i used a small hydraulic bottle jack, pumped it up quite tight then hit the other side with a copper hammer and BING it was free, very simple and effective.
Thanks again, and happy new year!
Goodtech - the axle seal number i got is CR541523 - Chicago Rawhide. I hope this is the number that are on your seals. They guy my dad spoke with verified the sizes matched what we gave him for ID and OD.
For anyone wanting to replace bearings/seals here are the bearing and seal numbers.
Bearing Cup - LM104912
Race - LM104949
Seal - CR541523 Chicago Rawhide Brand (Hopefully Goodtech will confirm this number)
Now i just need to get some wear rings off bobcat.
Goodtech - do you put any Loctight 515 on the seals when you install them? or do they make a good seal in the housing on their own?
 

Luthor

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Goodtech - the axle seal number i got is CR541523 - Chicago Rawhide. I hope this is the number that are on your seals. They guy my dad spoke with verified the sizes matched what we gave him for ID and OD.
For anyone wanting to replace bearings/seals here are the bearing and seal numbers.
Bearing Cup - LM104912
Race - LM104949
Seal - CR541523 Chicago Rawhide Brand (Hopefully Goodtech will confirm this number)
Now i just need to get some wear rings off bobcat.
Goodtech - do you put any Loctight 515 on the seals when you install them? or do they make a good seal in the housing on their own?
Thanks Tazza, that information will be very handy, I will note those part numbers in my parts manual next to the Bobcat numbers. I assume that the inner and outer bearing assemblies are the same numbers. Lets hope that Goodtech can come up with a drawing or some dimensions of the genuine seal instalation tool so we can manufacture one.
 

Tazza

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Thanks Tazza, that information will be very handy, I will note those part numbers in my parts manual next to the Bobcat numbers. I assume that the inner and outer bearing assemblies are the same numbers. Lets hope that Goodtech can come up with a drawing or some dimensions of the genuine seal instalation tool so we can manufacture one.
Yes, the inside and outside bearing sets are indeed the same. As for the installation tool, i do have a pretty ood idea of what it looks like from the manual, but i can't work out how it releases after installation, as the seal will be holding the bearing in place which will hold the installation tool.
Now i need to hunt down some material to make one if goodtech can get some sizes for us. Not trying to push you, i know how busy you will be after x-mas and new years!
 

goodtech

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Excellent, thank you.

I have worked out a way to get the axle seal in i think, i cut 2 bearing cups in half and used 2 hose clamps to hold them together, it did work to an extent on an old seal when i tested it but i'm sure it wasn't square. I would prefer to use the rite tool for the job. As for the bolts, i got a large ring spanner from a friend and held the bolt inside and i made an adaptor that bolts on to the hub. Here is a piccie of it, i hope it is bobcatapproved.

http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/bobcat/120_2099.jpg

I used this to remove the old bolts and they were no where near 450 ft lbs. They did have a small amount of axle float, i did read in my manual you get washers from bobcat to fix this. I will be replacing the bearings, bearing cups and seals so hopefully this float will be corrected, if not i will get some spacers. I swear the chain case was never cleaned, there was black sludge on the bottom. I removed the reduction gear box (had to do it to remove the chains) and there was sludge behind the gear box where it bolts to the chain case, with shards of metal in black sludge.... In the gear boxes there is NO movement in the shafts and almost no back lash on the gears, so i have no idea where this metal is from, there is only a small amount of it at least. I sure hope the bearings won't set me back too much, but its a job i really don't want to ever do again on a machine that is still assembled.

The manual says to use a slide hammer to get the axles out, LIES, i used a small hydraulic bottle jack, pumped it up quite tight then hit the other side with a copper hammer and BING it was free, very simple and effective.
Thanks again, and happy new year!
Sorry boys for taking so long to get back to you. I looked up the seal number today and went back there and looked for a number on the seal, the only thing I could find is TTC G115, but otherwise it is a bobcat part # 6513277. as for the tool I found the mel # but just didn't get time to go find it, I'm slammed at work, the other bobcat tech is on a two week vacation. Sludge on the bottom of these chain cases is normal, that is why bobcat says to drain the fluid out every thousand hrs, not just check the fluid every thousand. Little metal flakes are normal they come from usually wear on the chain and sprockets, now if you finding bigger pieces of metal I would be concerned. As for taking the axles out, I take a big hammer and hit the back of the hub a couple of times and they usually pop right out. The bearing races I take and weld the race and they come right out and then I use a longer brass punch to install them. As for the loctite 515 that is a bobcat mechanics best friend, if it possible it can leak it goes on, that is at least my theory, I hate doing things twice, I will try and hopefully get back to you by friday with the dimisions on that hub installer. Have fun
 

Tazza

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Sorry boys for taking so long to get back to you. I looked up the seal number today and went back there and looked for a number on the seal, the only thing I could find is TTC G115, but otherwise it is a bobcat part # 6513277. as for the tool I found the mel # but just didn't get time to go find it, I'm slammed at work, the other bobcat tech is on a two week vacation. Sludge on the bottom of these chain cases is normal, that is why bobcat says to drain the fluid out every thousand hrs, not just check the fluid every thousand. Little metal flakes are normal they come from usually wear on the chain and sprockets, now if you finding bigger pieces of metal I would be concerned. As for taking the axles out, I take a big hammer and hit the back of the hub a couple of times and they usually pop right out. The bearing races I take and weld the race and they come right out and then I use a longer brass punch to install them. As for the loctite 515 that is a bobcat mechanics best friend, if it possible it can leak it goes on, that is at least my theory, I hate doing things twice, I will try and hopefully get back to you by friday with the dimisions on that hub installer. Have fun
I figured you would be run off your feet, being this time of year people go on holidays....
I ventured to the local bobcat dealer today to buy some wear rings for the axles, 25 bloody dollars each! for a tiny piece of steel, ooh well the old man didn't want me making my own. I had a look at the bearing installation tool so i think i know what i need to do, but dimensions would be great! It looks really quite simple to make.
As for installing the bearing cups, i think that may be the way i'll do it too, i'll get another person to help hold them in place and i will make an extension with a brass end to belt the internal ones in.
Thanks again for all your effort
 

Luthor

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I figured you would be run off your feet, being this time of year people go on holidays....
I ventured to the local bobcat dealer today to buy some wear rings for the axles, 25 bloody dollars each! for a tiny piece of steel, ooh well the old man didn't want me making my own. I had a look at the bearing installation tool so i think i know what i need to do, but dimensions would be great! It looks really quite simple to make.
As for installing the bearing cups, i think that may be the way i'll do it too, i'll get another person to help hold them in place and i will make an extension with a brass end to belt the internal ones in.
Thanks again for all your effort
Tazza, I think the inboard bearing cups need to be pulled in with a long threaded rod.
 

Tazza

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Tazza, I think the inboard bearing cups need to be pulled in with a long threaded rod.
Well, thats what the manual says :)
From how tight they were to remove, i think i will need to pull them in with threaded rod. I just hope the standard cyclone rod will be fine enough to give me enough force (the thread that is), i really don't want to make a puller for these bearing cups, i have enough to do! All work has basically halted because i need to finish the chain case, then move to another part its sooo frustrating. I will collect the wear rings tomorrow for the axles but then i need to wait for sizes on the seal installation tool then i need to make it, i may try and get sizes off it tomorrow if i can convince someone in the workshop to let me do it.
ooh, the axle seal, get it from bobcat. I got a price yesterday and they wanted $7.87 +GST, i got mine for about $6 so its up to you if you want to try and beat their price but for that its pretty damn good! but the bearings and cups were alot cheaper aftermarket, just make sure you get a good brand. The wear rings were about 25 bux...... that i thought was a bit pricy but i guess its peace of mind, a buddy said to just make them out of 41/40 i really don't want to have to replace them again when the machine is together!
 

Tazza

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Well, thats what the manual says :)
From how tight they were to remove, i think i will need to pull them in with threaded rod. I just hope the standard cyclone rod will be fine enough to give me enough force (the thread that is), i really don't want to make a puller for these bearing cups, i have enough to do! All work has basically halted because i need to finish the chain case, then move to another part its sooo frustrating. I will collect the wear rings tomorrow for the axles but then i need to wait for sizes on the seal installation tool then i need to make it, i may try and get sizes off it tomorrow if i can convince someone in the workshop to let me do it.
ooh, the axle seal, get it from bobcat. I got a price yesterday and they wanted $7.87 +GST, i got mine for about $6 so its up to you if you want to try and beat their price but for that its pretty damn good! but the bearings and cups were alot cheaper aftermarket, just make sure you get a good brand. The wear rings were about 25 bux...... that i thought was a bit pricy but i guess its peace of mind, a buddy said to just make them out of 41/40 i really don't want to have to replace them again when the machine is together!
Goodtech - i have managed to make a seal installer, i was at my local dealer today and had a look at the tool with my measuring stick, it was not the rite one however.... It gave me an idea of what i needed to do, so after a few hours on the lathe and LOTS of swarf i have an installer, it worked on a dry run with the old seals and bearings so fingers crossed.....
So of you haven't already measured the one at work, please don't bother. I will post pics and sizes of mine if anyone wants to make one.
 

Tazza

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Goodtech - i have managed to make a seal installer, i was at my local dealer today and had a look at the tool with my measuring stick, it was not the rite one however.... It gave me an idea of what i needed to do, so after a few hours on the lathe and LOTS of swarf i have an installer, it worked on a dry run with the old seals and bearings so fingers crossed.....
So of you haven't already measured the one at work, please don't bother. I will post pics and sizes of mine if anyone wants to make one.
Joy oh joy.....
A small note for anyone removing and re-installing your axles, when you go to re-install them make sure you have the chain on the sprocket when you attach it to the axle. If you don't, when you pull the bearing cup into place you have NO WAY to put the sprocket on the shaft without breaking the chain, believe me, i tried!.
Now, when re-installing the sprocket, you tighten the bolt up and it will pull the bearing cup into place for you, the only problem is the bolt on there isn't long enough to start the thread, so buy a bolt 1 - 1/2” longer and you are set, tighten it as far as you can then install the correct one and finish the job.
Goodtech - i managed to get both axles on the left side in, the rear one had .005” end float so i threw the washer in the lathe and took .005” off the inside face the same diameter as the axle and it worked a treat, no end float. The front one was perfect first go. Working out where the gear box is suposed to be is a bit of a guessing job, i think the chains are equal lengths, or equal slack. The axles seem to move the same amount, or very close to it. Id on't use my machine on ground that has any grip, i doubt it will do any damage.
 

goodtech

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Joy oh joy.....
A small note for anyone removing and re-installing your axles, when you go to re-install them make sure you have the chain on the sprocket when you attach it to the axle. If you don't, when you pull the bearing cup into place you have NO WAY to put the sprocket on the shaft without breaking the chain, believe me, i tried!.
Now, when re-installing the sprocket, you tighten the bolt up and it will pull the bearing cup into place for you, the only problem is the bolt on there isn't long enough to start the thread, so buy a bolt 1 - 1/2” longer and you are set, tighten it as far as you can then install the correct one and finish the job.
Goodtech - i managed to get both axles on the left side in, the rear one had .005” end float so i threw the washer in the lathe and took .005” off the inside face the same diameter as the axle and it worked a treat, no end float. The front one was perfect first go. Working out where the gear box is suposed to be is a bit of a guessing job, i think the chains are equal lengths, or equal slack. The axles seem to move the same amount, or very close to it. Id on't use my machine on ground that has any grip, i doubt it will do any damage.
Hey tazz, good job on fixing the axle float. The slop in the chains don't worry about, bobcat themselves don't even have specs on them, so as long as there even your good to go. I'm glad that you where able to make a installer, mel 1399 was missing in action, so I'm glad that you got something made. There pretty simple aren't they? As for putting the axle in on the sprocket, yes most of the time you do need the chain on the sprocket unless you have a link, but i have never had to buy a longer bolt, it may make the job easier. I slide the axle in most of the way, throw the bearing on it, then put a strap on the hub to hold it in place, start working the sprocket on, tighten the strap a little more and so on. On the newer machines, or the two piece axle, they are a little bit more of a challenge, but then again you don't have to take your axle out to change the seals also. Well good luck and holler if ya have anymore ?'s
 

Tazza

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Hey tazz, good job on fixing the axle float. The slop in the chains don't worry about, bobcat themselves don't even have specs on them, so as long as there even your good to go. I'm glad that you where able to make a installer, mel 1399 was missing in action, so I'm glad that you got something made. There pretty simple aren't they? As for putting the axle in on the sprocket, yes most of the time you do need the chain on the sprocket unless you have a link, but i have never had to buy a longer bolt, it may make the job easier. I slide the axle in most of the way, throw the bearing on it, then put a strap on the hub to hold it in place, start working the sprocket on, tighten the strap a little more and so on. On the newer machines, or the two piece axle, they are a little bit more of a challenge, but then again you don't have to take your axle out to change the seals also. Well good luck and holler if ya have anymore ?'s
Yeah, my dealer didn't have one either... Mine does the trick, so its all good, took me long enough to make too....
Thanks for all your help to date and i'm sure there will be more problems!
I have taken your advise and left the hydro pump alone, it is fairly easy to remove if needed, i have learnt to remove the hoses at the motors NOT the pump.
I just have to place a rather large order of spares.... just one part they want just under 500 bux for! it needs a new blower housing, how they can charge that much for some plastic is beyond me. This is one of the times i wish i worked for bobcat
 

Luthor

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Yeah, my dealer didn't have one either... Mine does the trick, so its all good, took me long enough to make too....
Thanks for all your help to date and i'm sure there will be more problems!
I have taken your advise and left the hydro pump alone, it is fairly easy to remove if needed, i have learnt to remove the hoses at the motors NOT the pump.
I just have to place a rather large order of spares.... just one part they want just under 500 bux for! it needs a new blower housing, how they can charge that much for some plastic is beyond me. This is one of the times i wish i worked for bobcat
Tazza, if i am reading your previous post correctly you are saying that you pulled the inboard bearing cups in using the axle and its bolt as a puller. the only problem I can see with this is that the cups may not be fully home against the shoulder of the axle housing and may move in service allowing an increase in end float.
 

Tazza

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Tazza, if i am reading your previous post correctly you are saying that you pulled the inboard bearing cups in using the axle and its bolt as a puller. the only problem I can see with this is that the cups may not be fully home against the shoulder of the axle housing and may move in service allowing an increase in end float.
Na, i seated the cups with a 1” bar and a pully that i machined to fit the end and belted it with a hammer to seat them. Basically the same effect as using what the manual says with the threaded bar and tightning the nuts. The cups were fully home, you could feel and hear the clang of the aloy hitting the cup when it was home, it wasn't soft it was a hard feeling. I then felt the back for any room behind them, there was none. The fronts all seemed to be seated the same too.
I used the bolt and sprocket to pull the bearing cone home on the shaft, the bearing is a press fit on the axle, the bolt just pulls this into place, i then measured end float on the axles, well more of feeling for any float, if none was heard or felt i took it as correct.
Sorry if i confused you on that.
I just painted the chain case in 2 pack, it looks pretty nice too, i will post piccies soon.
I want to attach the wheels just so i can move it around, but they look all scruffy and will make it all look like crap (untill i paint these too).
 

Luthor

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Na, i seated the cups with a 1” bar and a pully that i machined to fit the end and belted it with a hammer to seat them. Basically the same effect as using what the manual says with the threaded bar and tightning the nuts. The cups were fully home, you could feel and hear the clang of the aloy hitting the cup when it was home, it wasn't soft it was a hard feeling. I then felt the back for any room behind them, there was none. The fronts all seemed to be seated the same too.
I used the bolt and sprocket to pull the bearing cone home on the shaft, the bearing is a press fit on the axle, the bolt just pulls this into place, i then measured end float on the axles, well more of feeling for any float, if none was heard or felt i took it as correct.
Sorry if i confused you on that.
I just painted the chain case in 2 pack, it looks pretty nice too, i will post piccies soon.
I want to attach the wheels just so i can move it around, but they look all scruffy and will make it all look like crap (untill i paint these too).
Now I get it, you pulled the cones onto the axle with the bolt.
 

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