General path to repair 863

[mogman]

My 863 has been smoking badly for some time but running well, it smokes even at idle. So I have been changing the oil on an accelerated schedule because of oil contamination and I had removed the air intake and the turbo did spin easily although I have never heard the turbo. So this weekend I was doing some trenching at high idle for a long period and when I climbed off the machine it was smoking from the engine compartment, turns out I had developed a major exhaust leak in the engine compartment and pretty much cooked everything so some major maint. is in order. The temp gauge never read over normal, so the cooling system seems to be working OK. The leak appears to be coming from the right side of the engine even though it partially melted the air filter housing. (looking at this it could be a failed muffler and the heat is coming out of both sides of the heat shield but there is so much smoke it is hard to tell) SO here is the plan... Check compression, remove engine/pump to inspect for damage and troubleshoot the exhaust leak. If no problem is found with the compression, go ahead and replace the turbo, timing belt (it is time) and of course the cause of the exhaust leak and any damage found. This will put the engine back in place with any issues that could be in the front of the engine to rest and if there are farther issues it should be confined to the fuel system which is accessible with the engine in the machine. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Any "must replace" hoses that should be done while the engine is out?? Thanks!

 

[bobbie-g]

Wow, pulling the engine is a bit above my paygrade! Not sure what you need to pull it for. Compression check presumably thru glowplug ports only requires disconnecting a few fuel lines. Muffler change would seem to be fairly easy (haven't done it on my 863 yet). Timing belt is pretty accessible with engine in place (did mine last winter, about 3 hrs and I'm a perfectionist). --- I would advise replacing the fuel pickup line in the tank plus the fuel hose if you pull the engine. The pickup can be changed out with engine in place, with some difficulty and perhaps some vocabulary expansion... Did that once, took a few hours but went OK. Those pickup lines are prone to aging then breaking off right at the pickup elbow, so to get the machine to run, you need to fill the tank clear full, up into the filler neck, then add a quart of diesel every 5 or 10 minutes while you drive it to the shop. Best I can do..... --- Bobbie-G

 

[mogman]

Wow, pulling the engine is a bit above my paygrade! Not sure what you need to pull it for. Compression check presumably thru glowplug ports only requires disconnecting a few fuel lines. Muffler change would seem to be fairly easy (haven't done it on my 863 yet). Timing belt is pretty accessible with engine in place (did mine last winter, about 3 hrs and I'm a perfectionist). --- I would advise replacing the fuel pickup line in the tank plus the fuel hose if you pull the engine. The pickup can be changed out with engine in place, with some difficulty and perhaps some vocabulary expansion... Did that once, took a few hours but went OK. Those pickup lines are prone to aging then breaking off right at the pickup elbow, so to get the machine to run, you need to fill the tank clear full, up into the filler neck, then add a quart of diesel every 5 or 10 minutes while you drive it to the shop. Best I can do..... --- Bobbie-G

Thanks! actually I had a pickup problem several years ago, I "fixed" it by splitting the fill hose and inserting a steel pipe with a 90 deg. fitting welded into it allowing a pickup hose and filter to extend into the tank works fine, but repairing the original pickup would be on the list if the engine is removed. As it turns out I don't think I have a compression problem, I ran a test on 3 cylinders and had 390-400lb on each cylinder, unfortunately someone along the line cross threaded the #4 glow plug so I am waiting for a repair kit to arrive, but considering most blown head gaskets are between two cylinders I do not expect to find an issue with compression, it is pretty clear while cranking the engine there is not a major compression problem (all "hit" evenly) but thought a check was in order. I think pulling the engine is a good idea to look for any more heat damage and would make is much easier to replace the turbo, inspect all the manifolds etc. and really clean out the engine compartment. I am still a little mystified why it smokes SOOO badly even at idle but runs "well" unless there is some kind of intake restriction, past experience with defective diesel injectors ether ran bad or knocked. BTW there is NOTHING easy to repair on an 863, talk about 500lb of crap stuffed into a 5lb bag!!!

 

[bobbie-g]

Thanks! actually I had a pickup problem several years ago, I "fixed" it by splitting the fill hose and inserting a steel pipe with a 90 deg. fitting welded into it allowing a pickup hose and filter to extend into the tank works fine, but repairing the original pickup would be on the list if the engine is removed. As it turns out I don't think I have a compression problem, I ran a test on 3 cylinders and had 390-400lb on each cylinder, unfortunately someone along the line cross threaded the #4 glow plug so I am waiting for a repair kit to arrive, but considering most blown head gaskets are between two cylinders I do not expect to find an issue with compression, it is pretty clear while cranking the engine there is not a major compression problem (all "hit" evenly) but thought a check was in order. I think pulling the engine is a good idea to look for any more heat damage and would make is much easier to replace the turbo, inspect all the manifolds etc. and really clean out the engine compartment. I am still a little mystified why it smokes SOOO badly even at idle but runs "well" unless there is some kind of intake restriction, past experience with defective diesel injectors ether ran bad or knocked. BTW there is NOTHING easy to repair on an 863, talk about 500lb of crap stuffed into a 5lb bag!!!

Not to argue, or try to talk you out of pulling the engine, but..... I found the timing belt change was pretty simple. And I did remove and replace the turbo with the engine in place. Think I had to pull the muffler, if I recall correctly. I did manage to replace the fuel pickup-assembly too. Bummer about the cross-threaded glow plug. ---Bobbie-G

 

[mogman]

Not to argue, or try to talk you out of pulling the engine, but..... I found the timing belt change was pretty simple. And I did remove and replace the turbo with the engine in place. Think I had to pull the muffler, if I recall correctly. I did manage to replace the fuel pickup-assembly too. Bummer about the cross-threaded glow plug. ---Bobbie-G

Managed to successfully chase the threads and with a hot battery I am getting 420-440LB on all cylinders, puts the blown head head gasket theory to bed, it is the muffler that is leaking in the engine compartment, $400.00 PLUS for a muffler GEEZ!! I may have ye ol muffler shop build me a straight pipe!!!

 

[bobbie-g]

Managed to successfully chase the threads and with a hot battery I am getting 420-440LB on all cylinders, puts the blown head head gasket theory to bed, it is the muffler that is leaking in the engine compartment, $400.00 PLUS for a muffler GEEZ!! I may have ye ol muffler shop build me a straight pipe!!!

Proud of those mufflers, aren't they! As I said, I'm pretty sure I removed my muffler to access the turbo. I think Bobcat wanted $2500 for a new turbo, and MemoParts wanted $500??? Been awhile. At any rate, when I pulled the turbo (not simple, but not too hard) turned out it had some broken studs on the turbo itself. Machinist friend got the broken pieces out and I refit and reinstalled. Hardest part seemed to be an oil line that pressed into a grommet way down low behind the engine. I think a couple of cut-to-fit 2x4 pieces put enuf pressure on the line to reinstall it. At any rate, if you do spring for the muffler, that would be the time to check out the turbo. ---Bobbie-G

 

[mogman]

Proud of those mufflers, aren't they! As I said, I'm pretty sure I removed my muffler to access the turbo. I think Bobcat wanted $2500 for a new turbo, and MemoParts wanted $500??? Been awhile. At any rate, when I pulled the turbo (not simple, but not too hard) turned out it had some broken studs on the turbo itself. Machinist friend got the broken pieces out and I refit and reinstalled. Hardest part seemed to be an oil line that pressed into a grommet way down low behind the engine. I think a couple of cut-to-fit 2x4 pieces put enuf pressure on the line to reinstall it. At any rate, if you do spring for the muffler, that would be the time to check out the turbo. ---Bobbie-G

I did get the muffler off, noticed a plate covering an exhaust "notch" in the back door, I have seen this being used on another model machine (Kubota engine?) anyway it is just in the right place to exit a "straight" pipe so I got the boys at ye ol muffler shop to bend be a 60 and 90 deg pieces of 2.5" cost me $30.. including the flippen flopper to go on top and a flange gasket,, and will fit and weld them to the original flange and nipple that can be cut off of the old muffler and fit a support bracket. The only reason the muffler rusts out is the moronic engineering that went into believing a turned exhaust pipe will not fill up with water, must be the same engineer that worked for Massey Ferguson at one time. I can always add a muffler externally later if needed,(or install a factory muffler as I am not doing anything permanent) I even found one with an offset inlet that could be mounted horizontally, but I am deaf anyway so what's the point!! THE BAD news is that bozo the clown has done allot of maintenance to this machine before I bought it and it is evident everywhere try to work on it. The muffler/alternator bracket that is bolted to the side of the head,,, One bolt was twisted off, one bolt stripped/cross threaded, and the other was loose, the only thing holding it all together is the fact it is all stuffed in there so tight it cannot move. Oh well as long as it gets out the door!! Seems like it might be easier to unbolt the manifolds to replace the turbo, intake first of course.

 

[mogman]

I did get the muffler off, noticed a plate covering an exhaust "notch" in the back door, I have seen this being used on another model machine (Kubota engine?) anyway it is just in the right place to exit a "straight" pipe so I got the boys at ye ol muffler shop to bend be a 60 and 90 deg pieces of 2.5" cost me $30.. including the flippen flopper to go on top and a flange gasket,, and will fit and weld them to the original flange and nipple that can be cut off of the old muffler and fit a support bracket. The only reason the muffler rusts out is the moronic engineering that went into believing a turned exhaust pipe will not fill up with water, must be the same engineer that worked for Massey Ferguson at one time. I can always add a muffler externally later if needed,(or install a factory muffler as I am not doing anything permanent) I even found one with an offset inlet that could be mounted horizontally, but I am deaf anyway so what's the point!! THE BAD news is that bozo the clown has done allot of maintenance to this machine before I bought it and it is evident everywhere try to work on it. The muffler/alternator bracket that is bolted to the side of the head,,, One bolt was twisted off, one bolt stripped/cross threaded, and the other was loose, the only thing holding it all together is the fact it is all stuffed in there so tight it cannot move. Oh well as long as it gets out the door!! Seems like it might be easier to unbolt the manifolds to replace the turbo, intake first of course.

Not welded up yet but this is what I was talking about, has to be much cooler in the engine compartment and just look at all the room! https://imgur.com/a/22lq2oM

 

[mogman]

Not welded up yet but this is what I was talking about, has to be much cooler in the engine compartment and just look at all the room! https://imgur.com/a/22lq2oM

It will also be nice not having the exhaust blowing in my face as I try to do ANYTHING behind the machine.

 

[mogman]

It will also be nice not having the exhaust blowing in my face as I try to do ANYTHING behind the machine.

So much for that idea, can't remove the intake with the exhaust manifold in place, can't remove the exhaust manifold with the turbo mounted, may as well remove the entire head ass. and what is up with all the P.O.S. E-TORX bolts? I have little faith any of the manifold bolts can be removed considering they are not in blind holes leaving the treads exposed to the elements, spent some years working on Mercedes Benz engines, I have never seen bad German engineering until today.

 

[mogman]

Not to argue, or try to talk you out of pulling the engine, but..... I found the timing belt change was pretty simple. And I did remove and replace the turbo with the engine in place. Think I had to pull the muffler, if I recall correctly. I did manage to replace the fuel pickup-assembly too. Bummer about the cross-threaded glow plug. ---Bobbie-G

How did you change the timing belt? there seems to be an engine mount blocking the crankshaft alignment hole.

 

[bobbie-g]

How did you change the timing belt? there seems to be an engine mount blocking the crankshaft alignment hole.

If you'll put your email adr in your profile, I'll send you my .doc file, complete with pix. Also, check out this very nice video by Northern Tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae13eR-I1rU ---Bobbie-G

 

[mogman]

If you'll put your email adr in your profile, I'll send you my .doc file, complete with pix. Also, check out this very nice video by Northern Tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae13eR-I1rU ---Bobbie-G

I did find the crank "plug", I also received my manual yesterday and it appears none of the videos I have seen are actually correct according to the manual (I have seen the one you posted and a couple others), unlike the cam locating tool the crank tool does not lock the crank, it only prevents the crank from turning any farther in the normal rotational direction, but it can be turned backwards, this means one must hold the crankshaft in the normal rotational direction while tightening the cam bolt to insure the crank is in the proper position.

 

[mogman]

I did find the crank "plug", I also received my manual yesterday and it appears none of the videos I have seen are actually correct according to the manual (I have seen the one you posted and a couple others), unlike the cam locating tool the crank tool does not lock the crank, it only prevents the crank from turning any farther in the normal rotational direction, but it can be turned backwards, this means one must hold the crankshaft in the normal rotational direction while tightening the cam bolt to insure the crank is in the proper position.

I put my email in my profile, there is a stud/nut just outside of the belt halfway between the oil pump and cam pulleys that is interfering with using the tension gauge as shown in the video, I have not researched what it is yet and hesitate to just jerk it out, looks like it may possibly be a stop for the injector rack.

 

[mogman]

I put my email in my profile, there is a stud/nut just outside of the belt halfway between the oil pump and cam pulleys that is interfering with using the tension gauge as shown in the video, I have not researched what it is yet and hesitate to just jerk it out, looks like it may possibly be a stop for the injector rack.

In one manual it is referred to as an adjustment capsule, in another it is called a torque capsule, it looks like it can be carefully removed and then replaced with a new o-ring, no reference to this in any of the videos, none of the manuals I looked at refers to this during timing belt replacement because they all show the tension gauge built into the tension roller.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

In one manual it is referred to as an adjustment capsule, in another it is called a torque capsule, it looks like it can be carefully removed and then replaced with a new o-ring, no reference to this in any of the videos, none of the manuals I looked at refers to this during timing belt replacement because they all show the tension gauge built into the tension roller.

start from the top post started in April. as I understand you got a smoky Deutz bfm 41011f. several generations of this eng all basically the same. the diferance being short stroke long stroke external crankcase breather. (alum block lft hand upright) or tin cup on alve cover. AS TO WHAT I DO ON A SMOKY DEUETZ.COMPLAINT. 1. VERIFY OIL LEVEL 2MAKE SURE DIP STICK IS NON RIBBED. IF RIBBED HOW MUCH PLASTIC IS MISSING.3 VERIFY TIMING.(easy to miss a tooth without proper tools. will start and run though. fuel quality of course. pull muffler visual inspect turbo. no side to side no visable wear marks or external oil leakage. run a compression test 400 plus good no than 10 % between even if it is she will run. pull the head send it out to head dude. wait for answer inspect push rods. reassemble usually good. NOW AS TO THE NUICENCES OF THIS ENG IF SHES BEEN BABIED THE RINGS GLAZE AND SHE WILL SMOKE LIKE HELL. THIS B FACT. NOT OPION. COMPRESSION TEST SHOULD REVAL THIS UNLESS YOU TAKE INTO ACCONT THAT OIL IS DRIPPING PAST HEAD GASKET THERBY INCREASING COMPRESSION,. . YES ALL POSSIBLE SCENIRO BEING A LITTLE LONG WINDED HERE SORRY. TO THE POINT . REMOVE MUFFLER YANK HEAD SEND TO COMPENT HEAD DUDE. INSPECT TURBO VERIFY TIMING INSPECT PUSH RODS. REASMBLE SHOULD BE GOOD. IF SHE DID GLAZE THE RINGS.. BECAUSE NOT RUNNING WIDE THE F OPEN WHICH SHE LIKES. A RESTRICTOR PLATE OVER THE EXHAUST OUTPUT bring down to one inch hole get to temp and dog it down will reseat rings you aint gonnna hurt her just make it happy by breaking glaze ON BORES even at 10000 hrs cross hatch is still visable on these engs. there tough well designed and dam near bullet proof. don't over think it