Converting PTO to HYDRAULIC

[Skid_der]

Is there anyone that could help me with this one.... My skidsteer puts out 15.6 GPM @ 3300 psi...I m looking to install a new hydraulic motor on this snowblower.... What would be the desired RPM and torque formy skidsteer... I phone a couple places that sells hydraulic motors and they are asking me those questions. Thank You.

 

[Skid_der]

It s a 2004 CAT 226B....maybe if someone has a snowblower on his I could get the Motor model number off his. Thank You

 

[TriHonu]

It s a 2004 CAT 226B....maybe if someone has a snowblower on his I could get the Motor model number off his. Thank You

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Are you converting a PTO driven snowblower for use on your skidsteer?
If so, the blower was designed to operate at either 540 RPM or 1000 RPM. (These are the 2 common speeds for tractor PTO's).
The issue with sizing a hydraulic motor for any snowblower is determining what RPM the snowblower was designed to operate at. Each snowblower manufacturer designs the components so the auger feeds the snow to the fan at a rate where the fan can launch it at a speed where the chute can handle the volume and maintain a good throw distance.
If the fan is not spinning fast enough, the snow will not be thrown with enough speed and the unit will not operate properly. If the unit is run too fast the auger will not deliver it to the fan properly and you can damage blower components.
If you can determine your blower's design speed, we can help you select a motor. The additional questions we will have for you are:
Is the motor going to be attached directly to the blower fan?
Are you going to use a chain or belt drive from the motor to the fan?
If the blower has a PTO power shaft, what is the diameter and spline count of the coupler that attached to the tractor?
The motors I use on skidsteer attachments are Charlynn 2000 series motors. They were designed to handle 3000 psi.
If you are converting a 3-point tractor snowblower, they sell hydraulic motors that have a standard PTO shaft as the output shaft on the motor. For example: Ag PTO Output Hydraulic Motors - Surplus Center. Notice they come in different displacements. For a given hydraulic flow, the larger the displacement the slower the motor will spin.
Some people build a 3-point adapter for their skidsteers so the motor is not dedicated to one attachment. These allow you to use powered and un-powered 3-point equipment.

Skidsteer Solutions Motorized 3-Point Adapter.

 

[Skid_der]

&nbsp
Are you converting a PTO driven snowblower for use on your skidsteer?
If so, the blower was designed to operate at either 540 RPM or 1000 RPM. (These are the 2 common speeds for tractor PTO's).
The issue with sizing a hydraulic motor for any snowblower is determining what RPM the snowblower was designed to operate at. Each snowblower manufacturer designs the components so the auger feeds the snow to the fan at a rate where the fan can launch it at a speed where the chute can handle the volume and maintain a good throw distance.
If the fan is not spinning fast enough, the snow will not be thrown with enough speed and the unit will not operate properly. If the unit is run too fast the auger will not deliver it to the fan properly and you can damage blower components.
If you can determine your blower's design speed, we can help you select a motor. The additional questions we will have for you are:
Is the motor going to be attached directly to the blower fan?
Are you going to use a chain or belt drive from the motor to the fan?
If the blower has a PTO power shaft, what is the diameter and spline count of the coupler that attached to the tractor?
The motors I use on skidsteer attachments are Charlynn 2000 series motors. They were designed to handle 3000 psi.
If you are converting a 3-point tractor snowblower, they sell hydraulic motors that have a standard PTO shaft as the output shaft on the motor. For example: Ag PTO Output Hydraulic Motors - Surplus Center. Notice they come in different displacements. For a given hydraulic flow, the larger the displacement the slower the motor will spin.
Some people build a 3-point adapter for their skidsteers so the motor is not dedicated to one attachment. These allow you to use powered and un-powered 3-point equipment.

Skidsteer Solutions Motorized 3-Point Adapter.

The snowblower is rated at 540 rpm and I plan on putting the motor directly to the blower fan..I calculated flow for sizing a motor...here is a Char Lynn 2000 series motor that I looked up....what do you think about the specs according to my skidsteer flow.???,.Char-Lynn 2000 series: 1 1/4 Shaft, 6.2 CID, SAE 10, 742 RPM, 2630 Tq, 254083 torque is 2630 in.lbs. Thanks for all the excellent feedback!!!

 

[Skid_der]

The snowblower is rated at 540 rpm and I plan on putting the motor directly to the blower fan..I calculated flow for sizing a motor...here is a Char Lynn 2000 series motor that I looked up....what do you think about the specs according to my skidsteer flow.???,.Char-Lynn 2000 series: 1 1/4 Shaft, 6.2 CID, SAE 10, 742 RPM, 2630 Tq, 254083 torque is 2630 in.lbs. Thanks for all the excellent feedback!!!

And yes!!! I am converting a PTO snowblower to run on my skidsteer... Thank you

 

[Skid_der]

And yes!!! I am converting a PTO snowblower to run on my skidsteer... Thank you

Another thing I would like your opinion on is what do you think is best for what I m trying to do a 540 or 1000 rpm blower???? And what about blades on the blower fan...does it make a difference in 4 or 5 blades???? Thank you

 

[TriHonu]

Another thing I would like your opinion on is what do you think is best for what I m trying to do a 540 or 1000 rpm blower???? And what about blades on the blower fan...does it make a difference in 4 or 5 blades???? Thank you

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The 6.2 CID motor will theoretically give you 523 RPM with your loader at max RPM.
The 5.5 CID motor will theoretically give you 589 RPM so you could run the loader at less than max RPM and still have the fan at speed.
The 6.2 produces more torque than the 5.5. I'm in Minnesota and we don't get the heavy wetter snows that some other regions receive. For our typical snow, I have not had any issue with the blower bogging down and needing additional torque. Travel speed determines how much snow you are feeding the blower so you don't start pushing it ahead of the blower. When I'm in snow up to the top of the housing or above, I raise the blower and take it off in layers.
A larger diameter fan will need more torque in heavier/wetter snow.
If you keep your loader in a heated building, leave the blower outside. If you have a warm blower and pull it out and start blowing snow, you will find that snow will melt and then freeze to the fan (and housing and auger). Snow frozen to the fan will decrease the amount and distance it will be thrown.
As to choosing a 540 or 1000 RPM blower, farmers must choose a blower to match the PTO speed on the tractor. A 540 RPM unit will typically have a larger diameter fan. The size of the fan will determine the speed (MPH or Feet per second) at the tips of the fan blades. The speed will affect the distance you can throw the snow. A fan turning at 1000 RPM will typically have a smaller diameter fan and will still throw the same or further distance. In theory a fan spinning faster should stay cleaner.
I can't give you an answer whether 4 or 5 blades are better. The higher number will bunch the snow into smaller chunks that must be fed through the throat and out the chute. The shape and size of the throat and chute will be matched to the fan and auger. The performance is determined by all these design elements, and must also perform with a wide range of snow conditions. My blower has a 3 blade fan and performs just fine.
For efficiency, any snow you can plow, plow it. Blowers excel where you can blow the snow one time (blowing snow that has already been blown once is far more difficult) or for dealing with snow that you can't plow.
Do you already have the blower? If so, what is the diameter of the fan?

 

[Skid_der]

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The 6.2 CID motor will theoretically give you 523 RPM with your loader at max RPM.
The 5.5 CID motor will theoretically give you 589 RPM so you could run the loader at less than max RPM and still have the fan at speed.
The 6.2 produces more torque than the 5.5. I'm in Minnesota and we don't get the heavy wetter snows that some other regions receive. For our typical snow, I have not had any issue with the blower bogging down and needing additional torque. Travel speed determines how much snow you are feeding the blower so you don't start pushing it ahead of the blower. When I'm in snow up to the top of the housing or above, I raise the blower and take it off in layers.
A larger diameter fan will need more torque in heavier/wetter snow.
If you keep your loader in a heated building, leave the blower outside. If you have a warm blower and pull it out and start blowing snow, you will find that snow will melt and then freeze to the fan (and housing and auger). Snow frozen to the fan will decrease the amount and distance it will be thrown.
As to choosing a 540 or 1000 RPM blower, farmers must choose a blower to match the PTO speed on the tractor. A 540 RPM unit will typically have a larger diameter fan. The size of the fan will determine the speed (MPH or Feet per second) at the tips of the fan blades. The speed will affect the distance you can throw the snow. A fan turning at 1000 RPM will typically have a smaller diameter fan and will still throw the same or further distance. In theory a fan spinning faster should stay cleaner.
I can't give you an answer whether 4 or 5 blades are better. The higher number will bunch the snow into smaller chunks that must be fed through the throat and out the chute. The shape and size of the throat and chute will be matched to the fan and auger. The performance is determined by all these design elements, and must also perform with a wide range of snow conditions. My blower has a 3 blade fan and performs just fine.
For efficiency, any snow you can plow, plow it. Blowers excel where you can blow the snow one time (blowing snow that has already been blown once is far more difficult) or for dealing with snow that you can't plow.
Do you already have the blower? If so, what is the diameter of the fan?

I am looking at a blower that has a 24" fan...540 rpm....64" wide....4 blades... PTO shaft has a 1 1/4" key....same as the hydraulic motor....I was looking at the Char-Lynn 2000 series: 1 1/4 Shaft, 6.2 CID, SAE 10, 742 RPM, 2630 Tq, 254083 torque is 2630 in.lbs. i want to connect it straight on to the propeller with a keyed adapter We have lots of snow at times...wouldn't want to sacrifice the torque....what do you think? Where can I find a motor at a decent price? Thank you

 

[Skid_der]

I am looking at a blower that has a 24" fan...540 rpm....64" wide....4 blades... PTO shaft has a 1 1/4" key....same as the hydraulic motor....I was looking at the Char-Lynn 2000 series: 1 1/4 Shaft, 6.2 CID, SAE 10, 742 RPM, 2630 Tq, 254083 torque is 2630 in.lbs. i want to connect it straight on to the propeller with a keyed adapter We have lots of snow at times...wouldn't want to sacrifice the torque....what do you think? Where can I find a motor at a decent price? Thank you

Also looking at the same motor but SAE 12...

 

[Skid_der]

Also looking at the same motor but SAE 12...

You think I m going to loose performance from the blower at 523 rpm? How much torque difference is there between the 5.5 and the 6.2? Tx

 

[Skid_der]

You think I m going to loose performance from the blower at 523 rpm? How much torque difference is there between the 5.5 and the 6.2? Tx

When I looked up the flow on the char Lynn 2000 series on the 6.2 it shows MAX Speed (RPM) @ flow continuous to be at 742 rpm...and in the chart it show the Pressure (psi) continuous to be 3000 psi. Does this mean that at 3000 psi this 6.2 CID motor should turn 742 rpm? How did you came up with 523 rpm? Are we looking at the same motor? Here is a copy of the link that I found ...Thanks for helping me out TriHonu!! https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://psifluidpower.ca/sites/psifluidpower.ca/files/media/product/Char-Lynn%2520Motors_0.pdf&ved=0CCIQFjABahUKEwiwg-Kt8JTJAhWILYgKHXG5D6I&usg=AFQjCNGVNVe6Ofmt0u6rKdVERYA-dX7WZA&sig2=H2DjHNJcJrY0BDYyepg7Ng

 

[SkidRoe]

When I looked up the flow on the char Lynn 2000 series on the 6.2 it shows MAX Speed (RPM) @ flow continuous to be at 742 rpm...and in the chart it show the Pressure (psi) continuous to be 3000 psi. Does this mean that at 3000 psi this 6.2 CID motor should turn 742 rpm? How did you came up with 523 rpm? Are we looking at the same motor? Here is a copy of the link that I found ...Thanks for helping me out TriHonu!! https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://psifluidpower.ca/sites/psifluidpower.ca/files/media/product/Char-Lynn%2520Motors_0.pdf&ved=0CCIQFjABahUKEwiwg-Kt8JTJAhWILYgKHXG5D6I&usg=AFQjCNGVNVe6Ofmt0u6rKdVERYA-dX7WZA&sig2=H2DjHNJcJrY0BDYyepg7Ng

Some quick guidance: Pressure determines torque, flow determines speed. Torque and speed together determine horsepower.
The 6.2 cid motor that you are looking at will only generate 742 rpm if you have the flow to spin it that fast. Based on your machines max flow, the best you will achieve is 523 rpm.
I personally would go with this motor. It is rated at 3000 psi continuous, which means that some excursions above 3000 psi are acceptable. The only time you will be hitting 3000 psi is when you are under high load and about to stall your blower.
Spinning it faster is not necessarily going to help you, as under high load, you will be closer to stalling the blower a higher percentage of the time. You will perceive this as the blower lacking staying power when under load.
HTH - SR

 

[TriHonu]

Some quick guidance: Pressure determines torque, flow determines speed. Torque and speed together determine horsepower.
The 6.2 cid motor that you are looking at will only generate 742 rpm if you have the flow to spin it that fast. Based on your machines max flow, the best you will achieve is 523 rpm.
I personally would go with this motor. It is rated at 3000 psi continuous, which means that some excursions above 3000 psi are acceptable. The only time you will be hitting 3000 psi is when you are under high load and about to stall your blower.
Spinning it faster is not necessarily going to help you, as under high load, you will be closer to stalling the blower a higher percentage of the time. You will perceive this as the blower lacking staying power when under load.
HTH - SR

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I ran some comparisons in the past and pulled my data for low flow blowers from a number of manufactures. Using the diameter of the fan and the RPM of the motor most manufactures have the tips of the fans moving at around 40 MPH.
The 24 in fan in your blower spinning at 540 RPM would produce a fan tip speed of 38.6 MPH. (In the range of the commercial units I compared).
The 6.2 motor spinning at 523 RPM would have a fan tip speed of 37.3 MPH not much below its design speed, and you will have to run the loader at WOT.
The 4.9 motor with your motor at WOT would produce 589 RPM with a fan tip speed of 42.1 MPH. Not excessive but at the higher end of the speed range that I compared. By running the motor at less than WOT your flow will be less and the blower will spin slower. You would have about 215 Ft Lbs of torque @ 3300 PSI
If the snow in your area tends to be heavy, or you will be blowing snow that has fallen and settled, or has gone through thaw/freeze cycles you may want the higher torque of the 6.2 motor. You will have more torque (about 272 ft lbs @ 3300 PSI) but a little less throwing distance.
Much of a blowers performance is based on the type of snow. Anyone who has operated walk behind blowers has seen how some snow will blow exceptionally well and others not well or not at all.
When you plumb it, you want 3/4" hoses. Minimize the number of fittings, especially 90 degree elbows. They increase the resistance in lines slowing the flow and heating the oil. Bring the loader to an idle before you stop the auxiliary hydraulics. This will minimize the shock as the motor is stopped.
I plumbed a one way valve between the pressure and return lines near the motor. When I stop the Aux, the motor can continue to spin down as the one way valve allows the return flow to open the one way valve and feed the oil back into the pressure side of the motor removing the shock of a sudden stop.

 

[TriHonu]

&nbsp
I ran some comparisons in the past and pulled my data for low flow blowers from a number of manufactures. Using the diameter of the fan and the RPM of the motor most manufactures have the tips of the fans moving at around 40 MPH.
The 24 in fan in your blower spinning at 540 RPM would produce a fan tip speed of 38.6 MPH. (In the range of the commercial units I compared).
The 6.2 motor spinning at 523 RPM would have a fan tip speed of 37.3 MPH not much below its design speed, and you will have to run the loader at WOT.
The 4.9 motor with your motor at WOT would produce 589 RPM with a fan tip speed of 42.1 MPH. Not excessive but at the higher end of the speed range that I compared. By running the motor at less than WOT your flow will be less and the blower will spin slower. You would have about 215 Ft Lbs of torque @ 3300 PSI
If the snow in your area tends to be heavy, or you will be blowing snow that has fallen and settled, or has gone through thaw/freeze cycles you may want the higher torque of the 6.2 motor. You will have more torque (about 272 ft lbs @ 3300 PSI) but a little less throwing distance.
Much of a blowers performance is based on the type of snow. Anyone who has operated walk behind blowers has seen how some snow will blow exceptionally well and others not well or not at all.
When you plumb it, you want 3/4" hoses. Minimize the number of fittings, especially 90 degree elbows. They increase the resistance in lines slowing the flow and heating the oil. Bring the loader to an idle before you stop the auxiliary hydraulics. This will minimize the shock as the motor is stopped.
I plumbed a one way valve between the pressure and return lines near the motor. When I stop the Aux, the motor can continue to spin down as the one way valve allows the return flow to open the one way valve and feed the oil back into the pressure side of the motor removing the shock of a sudden stop.

One correction above: where I typed 4.9 motor, I should have put 5.5 motor.

 

[eeek]

One correction above: where I typed 4.9 motor, I should have put 5.5 motor.

I think TriHonu is on the money. I blew snow in northern Minnesota commercially for a few years with our 853H. In my opinion you're way better off turning the blower a little faster than stock rather than slower. Your machine has roughly 26 hydraulic horse power available, enough to run a blower, but not an over abundance.