Bobcat 743 V2203 install broke rear crankshaft bolts

[KC743]

Need ideas. I am doing an overhaul on a 1989 743 that came with a V1702. It sat with exhaust uncovered, engine got filled with water, froze and cracked oil pan. Purchased a V2203 upgrade with intake to oil pan and mounts switched to fit. During shipping, the freight company damaged the engine. It fell on its side and crushed the small pallet it was on. Replaced fuel pump, throttle brackets, oil filter, small things damaged as it fell on the intake side. Installed and upon initial start up it had a strange noise. Turned off and double checked oil etc.. Started it back up and moved machine a little. I then raised arms all the way up, on the way back down I heard a critical noise, lost hydraulics and shut down immediately. I tried to restart but the new starter just spun like it was a stripped gear. I removed starter and it was perfect. Felt the teeth on the flywheel and the flywheel moved. I pulled engine and all 6 bolts holding the flywheel on were snapped with clean marks. I am assuming the freight company used a forklift on the rear fan when putting it on another pallet. Has anyone ever had this happen before? I tested the hydro pump by putting a pipe wrench on it and turning clockwise, it turns with no sounds, play, stutters anything. Feels tight with perfect splines. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jerry]

I think you should talk to a lawyer first, this should be the freight company's problem. Maybe will not go that way but $100 at a law office may be worth it.

 

[mark18mwm]

I think you should talk to a lawyer first, this should be the freight company's problem. Maybe will not go that way but $100 at a law office may be worth it.

It can't hurt looking into having them try to pay for damages. However, I have been a truck driver all my life and know that if you singed the bill of lading or proof of delivery slip without noting the damages on paper they most likely will not pay. As unless the damages are noted they will lay the responsibility on you, saying you may have damaged it after it left their custody/ responsibility. Hope fully you have noted the damage, then it would be hard for them to weasel out of paying. They will (or should have) have insurance for freight damage, but might just pay for the damages them selves to keep their insurance from getting a claim and rising. I'v seen this (and been involved in) several of these type claims before. If it's on paper, you should be in good shape!

 

[KC743]

It can't hurt looking into having them try to pay for damages. However, I have been a truck driver all my life and know that if you singed the bill of lading or proof of delivery slip without noting the damages on paper they most likely will not pay. As unless the damages are noted they will lay the responsibility on you, saying you may have damaged it after it left their custody/ responsibility. Hope fully you have noted the damage, then it would be hard for them to weasel out of paying. They will (or should have) have insurance for freight damage, but might just pay for the damages them selves to keep their insurance from getting a claim and rising. I'v seen this (and been involved in) several of these type claims before. If it's on paper, you should be in good shape!

Your both right. The shipper shipped as used equipment and initially the freight company has stated they only pay .05 per pound for damaged items. I did sign the pick up form but I made sure they took pictures and sent to me via email and signed showing the dock received it from the original carrier in that shape. The shipper did not insure. Does anyone think that a hydro pump on this 743 could or would ever lock up hard enough to sheer off 6 crankshaft bolts? Thanks for the input guys!

 

[antfarmer2]

Your both right. The shipper shipped as used equipment and initially the freight company has stated they only pay .05 per pound for damaged items. I did sign the pick up form but I made sure they took pictures and sent to me via email and signed showing the dock received it from the original carrier in that shape. The shipper did not insure. Does anyone think that a hydro pump on this 743 could or would ever lock up hard enough to sheer off 6 crankshaft bolts? Thanks for the input guys!

No way there is key under the spline on the hydro shaft

 

[jerry]

No way there is key under the spline on the hydro shaft

Is it possible that the bolts were not tight? When you installed the engine did you check them? I cant remember exactly how the u joint attaches to the flywheel. I know you can put enough load on the pump to kill the engine dead which would put a lot of strain on everything because i have done that a time or two and it the bolts were loose at all possibly things could break.
Whenever I have killed the engine it is very sudden , instantly stops running.

 

[Tazza]

Is it possible that the bolts were not tight? When you installed the engine did you check them? I cant remember exactly how the u joint attaches to the flywheel. I know you can put enough load on the pump to kill the engine dead which would put a lot of strain on everything because i have done that a time or two and it the bolts were loose at all possibly things could break.
Whenever I have killed the engine it is very sudden , instantly stops running.

The bolts, are they the ones holding the flywheel to the engine or the 4 to the U-joints?
If it was the flywheel to the crank, i thought there was like a key pin that aligns the flywheel to the crank. I honestly don't believe there would be enough torque from the engine to sheer all those bolts and pin in one hit. I'd go with the idea that the bolts were not tightened up properly or over tightened and were so stressed that they just failed.
I don't think the freight company caused that damage, they did the other damage, but i can't see it being the bolts
As the pump turns, i'd like to rule that out. There are parts inside that are a lot weaker than the bolts that broke. These would fail before the bolts.

 

[KC743]

The bolts, are they the ones holding the flywheel to the engine or the 4 to the U-joints?
If it was the flywheel to the crank, i thought there was like a key pin that aligns the flywheel to the crank. I honestly don't believe there would be enough torque from the engine to sheer all those bolts and pin in one hit. I'd go with the idea that the bolts were not tightened up properly or over tightened and were so stressed that they just failed.
I don't think the freight company caused that damage, they did the other damage, but i can't see it being the bolts
As the pump turns, i'd like to rule that out. There are parts inside that are a lot weaker than the bolts that broke. These would fail before the bolts.

Thank you for the reply Tazza! It is the 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft. The alignment pin sheered off as well as it was just a little dowel pin. I agree that they had to be over tightened and stressed as I did not feel any play when installing the u-joints and aligning onto pump shaft during engine installation. I now have 6 bolts stuck in the crankshaft and have broke off 2 extractors after drilling out the bolts and counting threads to ensure I did not go all the way through the bolt. I matched the size of bolt to extractor and bit. I am going to take the engine to a welder / fabricator to get bolts out. I also agree Tazza that the pump can be ruled out. Hope all goes well and thank you guys for your input, I really like this site and it's members! I have pictures but am unable to copy the HTML from photo bucket to this message box.

 

[antfarmer2]

Thank you for the reply Tazza! It is the 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft. The alignment pin sheered off as well as it was just a little dowel pin. I agree that they had to be over tightened and stressed as I did not feel any play when installing the u-joints and aligning onto pump shaft during engine installation. I now have 6 bolts stuck in the crankshaft and have broke off 2 extractors after drilling out the bolts and counting threads to ensure I did not go all the way through the bolt. I matched the size of bolt to extractor and bit. I am going to take the engine to a welder / fabricator to get bolts out. I also agree Tazza that the pump can be ruled out. Hope all goes well and thank you guys for your input, I really like this site and it's members! I have pictures but am unable to copy the HTML from photo bucket to this message box.

I agree with Tazza but while you have it apart check your ujoint bolts I just replaced mine on my 743 from loadersourceparts and had to buy 4 shorter bolts because they were too long and would put the ujoints in a bind

 

[KC743]

I agree with Tazza but while you have it apart check your ujoint bolts I just replaced mine on my 743 from loadersourceparts and had to buy 4 shorter bolts because they were too long and would put the ujoints in a bind

I do see how the u-joints being in a bind could be an issue. When I installed the engine, I used the same original 4 bolts from when the v1702 was in it. I assume they are fine. Thank you again for your comments! : )

 

[antfarmer2]

I do see how the u-joints being in a bind could be an issue. When I installed the engine, I used the same original 4 bolts from when the v1702 was in it. I assume they are fine. Thank you again for your comments! : )

Just letting you know what problem I found with new ujoints in case you put new in also I would put new in or at least new bolts don't forget the lock tight or you will be doing it again and might bend the shaft

 

[KC743]

I do see how the u-joints being in a bind could be an issue. When I installed the engine, I used the same original 4 bolts from when the v1702 was in it. I assume they are fine. Thank you again for your comments! : )

Makes sense to me. My u-joints are tight with no play in them and full of grease so I am confident in them. Would you suggest using the blue Loctite on the u-joint bolts and the crankshaft bolts? Thanks.

 

[antfarmer2]

Makes sense to me. My u-joints are tight with no play in them and full of grease so I am confident in them. Would you suggest using the blue Loctite on the u-joint bolts and the crankshaft bolts? Thanks.

Yes that is what I used and would be a good time to clean your oil cooler and radiator also there are two steel lines behind the shroud that are bad for failing I can talk you through if interested

 

[KC743]

Makes sense to me. My u-joints are tight with no play in them and full of grease so I am confident in them. Would you suggest using the blue Loctite on the u-joint bolts and the crankshaft bolts? Thanks.

Also I looked in the service manual and it says 72-80 ft.-lbs torque. Does everyone agree with this in the hopes I will not over tighten the 6 bolts as someone may have done before me. Also in the service manual it said there was a ring gear on the flywheel which is an interference fit. Says to heat the ring gear to a temperature of 450-500 degrees before putting ring gear on flywheel. I did not have a ring gear on my v1702 when removed nor on the v2203.

 

[KC743]

Also I looked in the service manual and it says 72-80 ft.-lbs torque. Does everyone agree with this in the hopes I will not over tighten the 6 bolts as someone may have done before me. Also in the service manual it said there was a ring gear on the flywheel which is an interference fit. Says to heat the ring gear to a temperature of 450-500 degrees before putting ring gear on flywheel. I did not have a ring gear on my v1702 when removed nor on the v2203.

 

[antfarmer2]

Also I looked in the service manual and it says 72-80 ft.-lbs torque. Does everyone agree with this in the hopes I will not over tighten the 6 bolts as someone may have done before me. Also in the service manual it said there was a ring gear on the flywheel which is an interference fit. Says to heat the ring gear to a temperature of 450-500 degrees before putting ring gear on flywheel. I did not have a ring gear on my v1702 when removed nor on the v2203.

Yes you have the ring gear on both lol it is the teeth on the fly wheel your starter engages also when you use lock tight you get higher torque because of the lubercation from the lock tight

 

[antfarmer2]

Yes you have the ring gear on both lol it is the teeth on the fly wheel your starter engages also when you use lock tight you get higher torque because of the lubercation from the lock tight

Not sure if you need lock tight on the flywheel bolts

 

[KC743]

Yes you have the ring gear on both lol it is the teeth on the fly wheel your starter engages also when you use lock tight you get higher torque because of the lubercation from the lock tight

I installed a brand new radiator and cap, took the oil cooler to a radiator shop sealed and had them pressure test it and clean it. The two metal lines behind the fan shroud were disconnected in the past and replaced with rerouted soft lines to get back in service. I do have one small leak which happens to be near the back bottom behind shroud I am going to repair before engine goes back in for easy access! I am eager to see if there is a large difference between the v1702 and the upgraded hp v2203. They will be running the same rpm so I don't feel it will have any effect on the hydro pump and system, maybe just a little more grunt when digging? I read many other forums about the switch and have seen nothing negative. I removed the thermostat after discussing with other users of the same engine as well as contacting bobcat. Just an extra measure to ensure it stays cool. Fresh hydro fluid, filter, battery, belt, alternator, new starter, and all new sensors. Hoping it becomes a reliable machine again. Is there another filter in the hydro pump I should look at? I changed the large canister filter but read there may be a smaller on inline somewhere on the pump? In the service manual it also says there are locking tabs for the bolts, are they necessary as neither flywheel had them?

 

[antfarmer2]

I installed a brand new radiator and cap, took the oil cooler to a radiator shop sealed and had them pressure test it and clean it. The two metal lines behind the fan shroud were disconnected in the past and replaced with rerouted soft lines to get back in service. I do have one small leak which happens to be near the back bottom behind shroud I am going to repair before engine goes back in for easy access! I am eager to see if there is a large difference between the v1702 and the upgraded hp v2203. They will be running the same rpm so I don't feel it will have any effect on the hydro pump and system, maybe just a little more grunt when digging? I read many other forums about the switch and have seen nothing negative. I removed the thermostat after discussing with other users of the same engine as well as contacting bobcat. Just an extra measure to ensure it stays cool. Fresh hydro fluid, filter, battery, belt, alternator, new starter, and all new sensors. Hoping it becomes a reliable machine again. Is there another filter in the hydro pump I should look at? I changed the large canister filter but read there may be a smaller on inline somewhere on the pump? In the service manual it also says there are locking tabs for the bolts, are they necessary as neither flywheel had them?

My flywheel did not have them either but did not mess with it if your ser# is under 5000 there is another filter if over your good sound like your doing the same thing as me........ pick it up and do a push pull on the wheels hope there is no play