Bobcat 443 Pump Belt Idler Bent.

[OldMachinist]

I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the heads up. I did some more digging and head scratching, regarding the engine+/-pump removal and I think I see what i was missing. Pump is attached to engine via item #9 from your diagram, so they do come out together. They can either come out together, or the pump first, and then the engine. Did I get it figured out right in my head? Sorry to be so snivelling about this, I can pull car engines and transmissions all day, this is new to me, and the parts are a chore to get, and its such a dirty mess its hard to make heads or tails of the unfamiliar components.......so I'm being extra cautious. Tomorrow is the big day, going to hit a whopping 30 degrees so I'm locking myself in the garage and at least getting it out, and hopefully finish up the diagnosis so I can order parts by end of day. Wish me luck, and thank for all the input, invaluable.

Yes, I think if you really wanted to you could remove the pump without the engine but getting the pulley off the pump with it all still in there would be a pain. Once you pull the assembly a couple of times it gets pretty easy. I use my 453 in the woods pulling logs out and I have to pull the assembly to clean it out at least every other year or the leaf litter builds up too much.
One thing that will cut down on some of the oil mess is to get caps for the lines and ports that are opened. I use the plastic ones like what comes on new fittings. I bought bags of them from McMaster Carr.

 

[skayser2]

Yes, I think if you really wanted to you could remove the pump without the engine but getting the pulley off the pump with it all still in there would be a pain. Once you pull the assembly a couple of times it gets pretty easy. I use my 453 in the woods pulling logs out and I have to pull the assembly to clean it out at least every other year or the leaf litter builds up too much.
One thing that will cut down on some of the oil mess is to get caps for the lines and ports that are opened. I use the plastic ones like what comes on new fittings. I bought bags of them from McMaster Carr.

Don't mean to "highjack" this thread. I bought my plastic plug set through Speedway in Lincoln, Nebr. 72 piece, threaded various sizes. Had plenty to plug and seal everything during my engine/pump R&R. Kept the dirt out and some of the oil in. $15 is about the cheapest I've seen anywhere. I bought em several years ago in anticipation of the eventual pulley swap. Order two sets to make sure ya have enough of the larger size. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Plastic-AN-Cap-and-Plug-Kit-72-Pieces,8621.html
Steve

 

[Nickyjpd]

Don't mean to "highjack" this thread. I bought my plastic plug set through Speedway in Lincoln, Nebr. 72 piece, threaded various sizes. Had plenty to plug and seal everything during my engine/pump R&R. Kept the dirt out and some of the oil in. $15 is about the cheapest I've seen anywhere. I bought em several years ago in anticipation of the eventual pulley swap. Order two sets to make sure ya have enough of the larger size. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Plastic-AN-Cap-and-Plug-Kit-72-Pieces,8621.html
Steve

No apology necessary at all. That is valuable information. I understand this is a common failure, and I hope this information is as useful to others as it has been to me. I wish I had known earlier, I'm going to make a mess!!! But its coming out tomorrow. No if and or buts about it.

 

[Nickyjpd]

No apology necessary at all. That is valuable information. I understand this is a common failure, and I hope this information is as useful to others as it has been to me. I wish I had known earlier, I'm going to make a mess!!! But its coming out tomorrow. No if and or buts about it.

OK, got held up today because one of my brilliant tenants decided to flush her tampons for the last month. So after 4 hours of work on bobcat. Engine compartment is done aside from engine mounts and a fuel line that would be best addressed when the engine is half out. Still have lines and two bolts under cab to deal with, but I'm all set, Not unhappy with my progress for 4 hours for the first time, with the thing being such a mess. Questions. I am set to pull engine and was going to hoist from ceiling rafters, but I think I'm just going to build a platform to slide it onto, or even buy a hydraulic table. Any thoughts or suggestions? The wiring is a mess, it needs a lot of cleaning, so I think the $150 hydraulic table might be a good investment, also considering I can use for motorcycles and snowblowers, and lawn mowers etc.

 

[skayser2]

OK, got held up today because one of my brilliant tenants decided to flush her tampons for the last month. So after 4 hours of work on bobcat. Engine compartment is done aside from engine mounts and a fuel line that would be best addressed when the engine is half out. Still have lines and two bolts under cab to deal with, but I'm all set, Not unhappy with my progress for 4 hours for the first time, with the thing being such a mess. Questions. I am set to pull engine and was going to hoist from ceiling rafters, but I think I'm just going to build a platform to slide it onto, or even buy a hydraulic table. Any thoughts or suggestions? The wiring is a mess, it needs a lot of cleaning, so I think the $150 hydraulic table might be a good investment, also considering I can use for motorcycles and snowblowers, and lawn mowers etc.

Actually, that's how I slid mine out. Jack stands under the back w/plywood over three 5 gallon buckets. Slid the motor/pump assembly onto the plywood by myself, not bad. Going in, I used a short 5/16" chain strung between the upper frames of the machine, close to the ROP pivot points. Set a 6' section of 2" pipe on the chain with the other end on a sturdy ladder. Used short choker chains to hang the motor/pump assembly on the pipe and slide the assembly in alittle at a time. Wish I had taken pictures cause it worked pretty well. Pump end of the unit is the heavy end so picking it up while being slid in was necessary. Your hydraulic table idea would be the way to go for sure. Really watch how the wiring and hoses are run as you pull the unit out cause there is little room for error going back in. Best of luck to ya!! Steve

 

[Nickyjpd]

Actually, that's how I slid mine out. Jack stands under the back w/plywood over three 5 gallon buckets. Slid the motor/pump assembly onto the plywood by myself, not bad. Going in, I used a short 5/16" chain strung between the upper frames of the machine, close to the ROP pivot points. Set a 6' section of 2" pipe on the chain with the other end on a sturdy ladder. Used short choker chains to hang the motor/pump assembly on the pipe and slide the assembly in alittle at a time. Wish I had taken pictures cause it worked pretty well. Pump end of the unit is the heavy end so picking it up while being slid in was necessary. Your hydraulic table idea would be the way to go for sure. Really watch how the wiring and hoses are run as you pull the unit out cause there is little room for error going back in. Best of luck to ya!! Steve

sorry, this must be a stupid question. Why jackstands, and how? No suspension, and damn this thing is low to the ground. My jack stands are for cars and trucks, and they at shortest length they are not 6" tall. Are you using special jackstands?

 

[antfarmer2]

sorry, this must be a stupid question. Why jackstands, and how? No suspension, and damn this thing is low to the ground. My jack stands are for cars and trucks, and they at shortest length they are not 6" tall. Are you using special jackstands?

I used cinder blocks and 2*6 lifted the cat up and slide it out a bit of crow bar while you drop the cat

 

[Nickyjpd]

I used cinder blocks and 2*6 lifted the cat up and slide it out a bit of crow bar while you drop the cat

Ant farmer, can you please give a bit more detail. I don't understand. Also I misstated hours. Had a buddy with me, he says 5:30 to 6:45. Been a shitty day. But I did have the advantage that the blower and alternator were already out. Another 2 hours to go as best I can figure. All of a sudden I'm getting concerned about supporting this thing, I thought without a suspension I didn't have to care..

 

[OldMachinist]

Ant farmer, can you please give a bit more detail. I don't understand. Also I misstated hours. Had a buddy with me, he says 5:30 to 6:45. Been a shitty day. But I did have the advantage that the blower and alternator were already out. Another 2 hours to go as best I can figure. All of a sudden I'm getting concerned about supporting this thing, I thought without a suspension I didn't have to care..

No need to support the machine on blocks or stands to take the engine out. First couple of times I took the engine out of my 453 I used a engine hoist. Since then I've added a overhead hoist in the shop and used it ever since. Take the radiator and oil cooler out, then the engine will lift and pull right out.

 

[Nickyjpd]

No need to support the machine on blocks or stands to take the engine out. First couple of times I took the engine out of my 453 I used a engine hoist. Since then I've added a overhead hoist in the shop and used it ever since. Take the radiator and oil cooler out, then the engine will lift and pull right out.

Old Machinist, you have exactly hit my question, If I slide, I don't need to remove radiator or oil cooler (which I have yet to see). If I slide, I can pull half way out, and remove oil line on way out. I was ready to hoist, but worried about the weight of the ass end being an issue.

 

[OldMachinist]

Old Machinist, you have exactly hit my question, If I slide, I don't need to remove radiator or oil cooler (which I have yet to see). If I slide, I can pull half way out, and remove oil line on way out. I was ready to hoist, but worried about the weight of the ass end being an issue.

Oil cooler sits in the shroud under the radiator.
Once the coolant hoses are removed the radiator is only held in by a couple of bolts.

 

[skayser2]

Oil cooler sits in the shroud under the radiator.
Once the coolant hoses are removed the radiator is only held in by a couple of bolts.

Reason I supported the machine on stands at the back corners was to remove all 4 wheels. Made removing the wheel motor covers easier to unhook the oil lines. I also would raise and lower the ROP cab often to check my progress with lines/wires etc. The ROP being top heavy, and over center, increases the risk of the machine tipping backwards when the cab is raised. I might have made more work for myself but it seemed to work okay. Removing the radiator, cooler and shroud really opens it up back there and is pretty easy. Steve

 

[skayser2]

Reason I supported the machine on stands at the back corners was to remove all 4 wheels. Made removing the wheel motor covers easier to unhook the oil lines. I also would raise and lower the ROP cab often to check my progress with lines/wires etc. The ROP being top heavy, and over center, increases the risk of the machine tipping backwards when the cab is raised. I might have made more work for myself but it seemed to work okay. Removing the radiator, cooler and shroud really opens it up back there and is pretty easy. Steve

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/skayser2/engineout2001_zpsb2e38286.jpg

 

[OldMachinist]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/skayser2/engineout2001_zpsb2e38286.jpg

After the engine is out and you've cleaned all the gunk from the engine bay, inspect the steel lines that run under the engine for rusting and pitting. If one them springs a leak later you'll have to pull the assembly again to fix it. Also depending on which one fails the lift arms can fall rapidly. Not any fun when you have a full load of bricks when it happens.

 

[Nickyjpd]

After the engine is out and you've cleaned all the gunk from the engine bay, inspect the steel lines that run under the engine for rusting and pitting. If one them springs a leak later you'll have to pull the assembly again to fix it. Also depending on which one fails the lift arms can fall rapidly. Not any fun when you have a full load of bricks when it happens.

I was planning on it. Great suggestion worth mentioning though. It is a disgusting mess in there, and I always clean up. Makes maintenance and troubleshooting much easier. I'm going to have to wait 3 or 4 days for parts, so at that time, I'll do the clean up, and straighten out the wiring harness issues as well. I'm not sure I'm able, but should this thread be changed to include engine and pump removal? Should be more helpful for future users. I'm heading out after lunch, will let you all know how it goes.

 

[Nickyjpd]

I was planning on it. Great suggestion worth mentioning though. It is a disgusting mess in there, and I always clean up. Makes maintenance and troubleshooting much easier. I'm going to have to wait 3 or 4 days for parts, so at that time, I'll do the clean up, and straighten out the wiring harness issues as well. I'm not sure I'm able, but should this thread be changed to include engine and pump removal? Should be more helpful for future users. I'm heading out after lunch, will let you all know how it goes.

OK, all is done except for the hoses to the motors. Any suggestions or do I just pull the wheels and covers? I'm going to take a quick break and go get my hydraulic table.

 

[OldMachinist]

OK, all is done except for the hoses to the motors. Any suggestions or do I just pull the wheels and covers? I'm going to take a quick break and go get my hydraulic table.

One hose to each motor can be removed from the top of the pump. The other ones you have to disconnect at the motors. You only have to remove the motor covers to get to them but it will make it easier if you remove the wheels. You may have to loosen the jam nut on the fittings at the motor to rotate them to get a wrench on hose.

 

[OldMachinist]

One hose to each motor can be removed from the top of the pump. The other ones you have to disconnect at the motors. You only have to remove the motor covers to get to them but it will make it easier if you remove the wheels. You may have to loosen the jam nut on the fittings at the motor to rotate them to get a wrench on hose.

Another thing I just remembered. Make a good mental note of route the hoses take to get to the motors or better yet take some pictures.

 

[Nickyjpd]

Another thing I just remembered. Make a good mental note of route the hoses take to get to the motors or better yet take some pictures.

Pictures taken. One problem, I don't have the right size wrench for the hose fittings at the motors. It appears as though its the rear most fitting on the left side. Can you tell me what size wrench I need? My set goes to 19, and no way can I put an adjustable wrench in there. These two hoses are the only problem I've had, and they are kicking my ass. Other than them, I'm ready to pull.

 

[OldMachinist]

Pictures taken. One problem, I don't have the right size wrench for the hose fittings at the motors. It appears as though its the rear most fitting on the left side. Can you tell me what size wrench I need? My set goes to 19, and no way can I put an adjustable wrench in there. These two hoses are the only problem I've had, and they are kicking my ass. Other than them, I'm ready to pull.

Should be 1-1/16".