Biased track loader comparison

[500K_773]

I saw this website and just had to check out the comparison of the Bobcat track loader to the Cat track loader with ASV suspension. It is a rental store that deals with Cat equipment, so obviously they are hyping their brands, but I wouldn't want to be driving the Bobcat machine over the course they have laid out.
http://www.nebraskarents.com/default-multiterrainloader.asp
Have you ever rode that rough in your Bobcat track loader? Obviously a smart person would slow down, but it is their sales demo

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Saw that one before and posted it somewhere... either on here or the lawnsite.com forum. Don't remember which. Yeah, the suspension of the ASV undercarriage is... it's very nice, to put it mildly. ASV is also the only company to offer a suspended undercarriage. Go figure.

 

[500K_773]

Saw that one before and posted it somewhere... either on here or the lawnsite.com forum. Don't remember which. Yeah, the suspension of the ASV undercarriage is... it's very nice, to put it mildly. ASV is also the only company to offer a suspended undercarriage. Go figure.

I did hear that there are some problems with the suspension system, but did not hear the specifics. This did come from my Bobcat salesman. He's pretty honest with me and does not try talk down the competition, but did give me a lead to investigate and make my own decision. After seeing this video, I am at least going to go down to the Cat dealer and test their track machine.

 

[864wood]

I did hear that there are some problems with the suspension system, but did not hear the specifics. This did come from my Bobcat salesman. He's pretty honest with me and does not try talk down the competition, but did give me a lead to investigate and make my own decision. After seeing this video, I am at least going to go down to the Cat dealer and test their track machine.

I went head to head with the same machine in question on a Pulte jobsite. All that we had to do was push heavy mud and spread. The things that I really really didn't like about the machine was; #1 after 5hrs heavy running the tracks and drive mechanism had generated so much heat that it was cooking the mud to the undercarrige and drive parts(smoke was coming out from it). #2 there are @3 large hydr lines that come out of the undercarrige through an open area in the drive linkage area below the drive sprocket and that set up looks like a disaster. What happens when you pick up a large #2 stone after the tracks are gummed up with dirt and mud. Looks to me like the lines would get damaged and wouldn't they be a treat to replace. Finally the engine was way under powered for what we were using it for. I had an 84" combo bucket on my machine and I could push and lift all day long . The Cat/Asv had a mini low profile and it was bogging down to keep up. All in all I didn't care for the Cat one bit! My 864G kicked its ass all day long and was easier to clean at the end of the day. Not to mention the 3rd degree burns my freind got trying to clean his tracks.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I went head to head with the same machine in question on a Pulte jobsite. All that we had to do was push heavy mud and spread. The things that I really really didn't like about the machine was; #1 after 5hrs heavy running the tracks and drive mechanism had generated so much heat that it was cooking the mud to the undercarrige and drive parts(smoke was coming out from it). #2 there are @3 large hydr lines that come out of the undercarrige through an open area in the drive linkage area below the drive sprocket and that set up looks like a disaster. What happens when you pick up a large #2 stone after the tracks are gummed up with dirt and mud. Looks to me like the lines would get damaged and wouldn't they be a treat to replace. Finally the engine was way under powered for what we were using it for. I had an 84" combo bucket on my machine and I could push and lift all day long . The Cat/Asv had a mini low profile and it was bogging down to keep up. All in all I didn't care for the Cat one bit! My 864G kicked its ass all day long and was easier to clean at the end of the day. Not to mention the 3rd degree burns my freind got trying to clean his tracks.

:lol: Yeah, no one says the ASV is perfect... :chuckling: The tracks got that hot, huh? You'd think that Cat and ASV would stop talking about how their tracks will last longer... because it sounds like it'll melt first!

 

[bvmjethead]

:lol: Yeah, no one says the ASV is perfect... :chuckling: The tracks got that hot, huh? You'd think that Cat and ASV would stop talking about how their tracks will last longer... because it sounds like it'll melt first!

I don't see any bias at all. They are both going the same speed through the same course. Slow down? Why? Then you get less done per day.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I don't see any bias at all. They are both going the same speed through the same course. Slow down? Why? Then you get less done per day.

Every test is biased in some way. Academically, tests are biased toward those who study or who know their material. This test is designed to really show how the suspension works the operator less. However, there are very, very few courses or paths in real-life excavation that have these 4x4 blocks every two feet. Even in operation, the operator WOULD slow down on the Cat machine, simply because it's putting a LOT of wear on components by running the machine that hard into those blocks. Granted it's more hurt to the Bobcat, but the point is to sell the Cat machine. It's simply biased because it makes use of something the Cat has but the Bobcat does not.

 

[Farmall]

Every test is biased in some way. Academically, tests are biased toward those who study or who know their material. This test is designed to really show how the suspension works the operator less. However, there are very, very few courses or paths in real-life excavation that have these 4x4 blocks every two feet. Even in operation, the operator WOULD slow down on the Cat machine, simply because it's putting a LOT of wear on components by running the machine that hard into those blocks. Granted it's more hurt to the Bobcat, but the point is to sell the Cat machine. It's simply biased because it makes use of something the Cat has but the Bobcat does not.

Cat/ASV's advantage is also its disadvantage. Great ride but lots of little expensive bits spinning under great tension in mud and rocks. The full report would include undercarriage rebuild costs over 5000 hours. The test is biased because any good operator would change the conditions rather than endure them. That's what the bucket is for. Smooth out the work route. Any operator who doesn't do this you wouldn't want to hire anyway. Skids are all about cycle times, and CTLs are all about cycle times, traction, and stability. Smooth work routes are something you need to create and maintain. Funny how many people don't get this. The cat vid is like the JD video where they ran three skids into a pile of dirt until all but the JD stalled. This was supposed to show JD's reserve torque. What it really showed was what are not supposed to do. Didn't prove anything. Pure advertising.

 

[bobcat_ron]

Cat/ASV's advantage is also its disadvantage. Great ride but lots of little expensive bits spinning under great tension in mud and rocks. The full report would include undercarriage rebuild costs over 5000 hours. The test is biased because any good operator would change the conditions rather than endure them. That's what the bucket is for. Smooth out the work route. Any operator who doesn't do this you wouldn't want to hire anyway. Skids are all about cycle times, and CTLs are all about cycle times, traction, and stability. Smooth work routes are something you need to create and maintain. Funny how many people don't get this. The cat vid is like the JD video where they ran three skids into a pile of dirt until all but the JD stalled. This was supposed to show JD's reserve torque. What it really showed was what are not supposed to do. Didn't prove anything. Pure advertising.

You said brother, I have become a much better and more productive operator since buying my new 247 MTL from Cat, grading on rough uneven terrain is a snap, big difference, it's like operating a tractor with the front oscillating axle locked up versus one that is unlocked, no more tipping down into ruts and what not, even the tracks and rollers have surpassed my expectations in the first 20 hours of a harsh environment that I ran through. Learn how to work the bucket while pushing is the trick, if it was done in the Deere vid, Cat and ASV would have caught up with the Deere. My T190 would have cost over $7000 to keep running, new rear idlers, new front idlers, new sprockets and tracks and labour and shipping costs, all this after not even 1800 hours, my 247 is cheaper, I am replacing individual parts like squirrel cage rollers and track rollers over the 2000 hrs, it's much cheaper to pay a couple of hundred bucks over a few months once in a while than it is to pay over $7000 in one month.