2008 NH C185 injection pump

[chezmichaelanthony]

I tried to make this as brief as possible. 2008 New Holland C185 began running a little sluggish, and hard starting. It would run well after starting, but would bog down under heavy load. Probably had this issue for about 15 or more starts and runs. Turned the machine off one day, a couple of hours later, crank no start, no smoke. Checked for fuel and air delivery, replaced filters on both. Based on the fuel filter condition, went ahead and replaced the mechanical fuel pump (and it didn't seem to have much pressure when trying to prime). When I cracked the 1st fuel line on the injection pump (a VE3) I discovered the pump was loose. After further investigation I found a sheared mounting bolt, a missing bolt and a small break on the pump housing where the sheared bolt was located (found the broken piece and bolt in the bottom of the engine bay). I can't fully see the interior/engine side of the pump, but it doesn't look like there is a mounting bolt, looks like only a guide pin of some type (as seen thru a digital scope). Knowing little, but willing to learn, I took a lot of pictures until my phone died as I started removing lines and electricals to get the pump out. The pump was loose, I could twist it less than an inch using moderate force, but it wouldn't come out. Assuming at this point there must be something additional attached, I raised the seat and removed a small metal plate held with two bolts that exposed the end of the pump that's mounted to a gear. I removed the bolt holding it to the gear, but it still could not get the pump out. I assume I need a gear puller to get it off the gear, but can't find mine, so currently in a holding pattern (also have to go back to work) When I twist the pump, the gear moves a little loosely as well, just wiggles a little. Questions are many. Should there be 3 mounting bolts or just 2 and a guide pin on the engine side of the pump? If there is supposed to be 3, I have no idea how any tool could get in the small hidden spot. Are there any other bolts or mountings after I get the pump off the gear? I have to get the small area of the pump welded that broke at the sheared bolt and remove the sheared bolt from the engine, but should I also get the pump tested once removed? If the pump is okay, do I need to worry about timing? The engine and pump at this point hasn't been turned. Should the gear inside the engine while looking through the opening created after removing the metal plate behind the seat move when I twist the pump move around slightly? The gear moves a little along with the pump, it doesn't seem to be damaged, but when I get the pump off the gear, the gear seems as though it will just drop and isn't connected to anything else. Any thoughts on why this may have occurred, the bolt shearing? I'm not sure if the bottom bolt is sheared or just wasn't there when we bought the machine about 3 years ago. Thanks for any thoughts and I'm sure I likely forgot more questions, just kinda spent right now.

 

[tech.35058]

Greetings.
I am not familiar with the C185, so consider any & every thing I say as a load of baloney.

That disclaimer out of the way, on some of the smaller engines, there was a timing pin-bolt, you shifted a spacer that either went into a slot, or "clamped" a shaft so the pump would not turn while you removed & installed it. ( in the shop I worked in, some guys worked on the small engines, others worked on big engines, we were not really cross trained on the different engine families) honestly, they tried to leave the pump mounted to the front plate if they could.
Looking at images on the internet, I have not dealt with the VE3 pump. The shaft appears to be tapered, does it have a key locating the gear on the shaft?
is the gear now loose on the shaft?
The engine performance you describe indicates the injection was not properly in time with the firing stroke, which would have been caused by the pump being "adrift" in the mounting slots.
clean the area around the slots & look carefully for scribe marks that might indicate where the pump was originally located if there are a scribe mark on the plate and a corresponding mark on the pump housing, and if the gear has not been loosened, moved on the shaft, or if it has a key to locate the gear to the shaft ... boy, that,'s alot of "if"s !
The machine was running before. so the pump may continue to run the engine. If you "have the pump checked" you will probably be told it is "bad", needs to be built, or replaced, & since the housing is broken, does not qualify as a core.
So, the pump should have been attached with 3 studs, nuts & probably washers. The designers are so inconsiderate of the service tech's when they do these things.
the ( probably o-ring) seal between the pump housing & the front plate is probably destroyed since the pump was so loose. (or maybe not? )
The inaccessible pin that you can not get to, was probably a stud was supposed to have a nut & washer on it. ( or, maybe not.). the last person possibly decide it was too hard to get to, thought they could get way with just 2 bolts, now you get to deal with the results.
If you can get the pump back in time ( did you find those scribe marks?) and re secure the pump back to the front plate, & if the gear is secure on the shaft (is the gear still secure on the shaft? with out the proper tooling & clearance to work they can be very! difficult to remove. Even with proper tooling.)
If you accomplish all this, the engine may start & continue to power the machine. ( even if it may or may not leak oil from this joint). If not, & you have to go deeper, start by placing the machine to top center firing stroke number one piston.
( a service manual would be great to find instructions on how to do all this.)
Any further advice from me, beyond this point would be "blind leading blind" so I must shut up before leading you astray. I am sorry not to be familiar with this machine & pump.
Good Luck ... CE

 

[chezmichaelanthony]

Update. Injector pump removed. Not sure if the permanently mounted bolt is factory, doesn't seem to be per the tack weld.