Upgrade/Replace/Re-engine/Set on fire

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peebeeaitch

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
115
Hello list,
After the saga of the repair of the little machine (see here), still not 100% complete due to money making requirements to fund this little (mis)adventure, I really needed it on Saturday to clear snow.
It started out fine, but at some point I must have engaged the aux hydraulics (I forgot to put the lock-out bolt in place). I could not disengage them (I think the spool is stuck) and so was forced to drive the right yankem over to the right hard in order to get the bucket to lift and tilt. This was strange as I thought that driving the stick to the right engages the auxiliary hydraulics, not disengages them. I soldiered on, and 27 seconds before the final push of snow I ran out of fuel. At this point the hydraulics and engine were nice and warm and things were going very smoothly.
I tried then to restart the machine after refueling and it fired up once, splutteringly idled for 10 seconds and then quit. Starter fluid, cranking, praying and swearing could not get it started again.
The symptoms are: crank and fiddle the throttle and choke till the starter is laboring less, the machine seems to be almost starting, but not quite catching, minute adjustment of the choke and throttle get it to spin a little faster. The engine smoke coming out of the exhaust is "normal" in colour - this is after about 5 minutes of cranking. The engine is hot after my cranking - I don't care about the starter at the moment as a Bobcat without a working engine doesn't need a starter.
I replaced the plugs. I took off the carburetor and serviced it (without removing the jets). No crud in the bowl. Float pin seems to cut the fuel off fine.
When I crank it I hear a grinding noise, every 5th or 6th revolution.
In my repair post, I showed the oil coming from the sump which was basically gray. Tazza's comment was that I might have a rebuild coming. I think that time has now come.
I really would prefer to get a newer engine in the thing. I read on this forum about ThermoKing engines, that I can get on eBay for <$1000. Is this an option? The engine is 2.2l Diesel, while I have a 1.8l petrol/gas. Will this matter and am I opening myself to another huge project?
Should I get another gas/petrol engine, and if so, which one? And where?
Or should I pull the fuel line to the carb, and allow the fuel which used to run through the carb and then engine instead to flow over the carb and engine, light a cigarette and off-handedly toss it into the engine bay, creating a brief, but spectacular, Christmas eve entertainment event?
 
With the price of gas needed to do a decent job of burning it and the cigarette bad for your health you might as well fix it or donate it to someone you really dont like.
 
With the price of gas needed to do a decent job of burning it and the cigarette bad for your health you might as well fix it or donate it to someone you really dont like.
If your aux is engaged it is loading up and making it hard to start it will have a better chance of starting after sitting for a while so it unloads but need too unstick it don't burn it yer
 
Thanks Jerry. It's stuck in the driveway so I'll probably have to pay someone I don't like to haul it off.
Thanks AntFarmer2
I've left it for 3 days in the freezing cold. Today was quite a nice day (40F/2C), so I thought I would give it a bash getting the old girl running.

The problem is the grating noise that I hear every 5 or 6 revolutions. I am almost convinced that there are deep issues inside the engine - especially since the little machine has fired and run about 8 times since the rebuild without issue. It is only once I used it for more than 1 hour consecutively that the deeper issues surfaced.
Given the oil (and general) state of the machine when I bought it, I can only surmise that, sadly, the Wisconsin has moved on to a better place.
 
Thanks AntFarmer2
I've left it for 3 days in the freezing cold. Today was quite a nice day (40F/2C), so I thought I would give it a bash getting the old girl running.

The problem is the grating noise that I hear every 5 or 6 revolutions. I am almost convinced that there are deep issues inside the engine - especially since the little machine has fired and run about 8 times since the rebuild without issue. It is only once I used it for more than 1 hour consecutively that the deeper issues surfaced.
Given the oil (and general) state of the machine when I bought it, I can only surmise that, sadly, the Wisconsin has moved on to a better place.
What is it? Does it have belt or ujoint drive the ujoint can make the noise
 
What is it? Does it have belt or ujoint drive the ujoint can make the noise
I see it is a 630 air cooled so it would have the u joint. The guys I know who have rebuilt wisconsin engines have said parts are very expensive and it costs upwards of 2000 to completely do one. There is a site on the web that sells repower kits to replace the wisconsin engine. You have put a lot of time into it so far and it is a good little machine when working properly so may as well dig in and fix it. After all if the gas tank is full its worth quite a bit right there.
 
Not sure what (good nick) means but if you hear the noise every 5 or 6 revs might not be the engine
Good nick = good condition. Originally the phrase referred to race-horses, so I suppose it is generally not applicable to SkidSteers and specifically not mine.
 
Good nick = good condition. Originally the phrase referred to race-horses, so I suppose it is generally not applicable to SkidSteers and specifically not mine.
I too think it's loaded down from the aux being stuck on. Yet your head in the back of the machine and remove the 2 allen bolts on the rear cap for the aux hydraulics, it should at least allow you to start it again.
When they wear, the balls can get stuck, no amount of force can get the rotten things to move.
 
I too think it's loaded down from the aux being stuck on. Yet your head in the back of the machine and remove the 2 allen bolts on the rear cap for the aux hydraulics, it should at least allow you to start it again.
When they wear, the balls can get stuck, no amount of force can get the rotten things to move.
What can I say? The little machine is now back in the circle-of-trust in the garage. Thanks again list - the removal of the detent cap did the trick (10k Tazza). The knocking was coming from the starter being loose !?!
One question remains. How do I find the neutral point for the aux hydraulic spool and lock it there forever? Now that the cap is removed, the slightest movement on the right stick causes the motor to bog down until another slight move disengages the aux hydraulics at which point the machine again operates like a champ - in other words, the movement from bogged down aux hydraulics on to off seems really small and I want to lock them off for the foreseeable future to prevent arson thoughts popping into my head again.
Thanks
 
What can I say? The little machine is now back in the circle-of-trust in the garage. Thanks again list - the removal of the detent cap did the trick (10k Tazza). The knocking was coming from the starter being loose !?!
One question remains. How do I find the neutral point for the aux hydraulic spool and lock it there forever? Now that the cap is removed, the slightest movement on the right stick causes the motor to bog down until another slight move disengages the aux hydraulics at which point the machine again operates like a champ - in other words, the movement from bogged down aux hydraulics on to off seems really small and I want to lock them off for the foreseeable future to prevent arson thoughts popping into my head again.
Thanks
Good job cheap and easy just the way I like it!!!!Just guessing here but if you work the stick back and forth and it freed up put the plug back and see how it works might be able just to disconnect the aux if you have to,
 
Good job cheap and easy just the way I like it!!!!Just guessing here but if you work the stick back and forth and it freed up put the plug back and see how it works might be able just to disconnect the aux if you have to,
On the base of the right hand stick there is a spot for you to drop in a 3/8 bolt to keep the aux in neutral. You have to take off the central plate to get at it I think. It's been a while since I did it.
 
On the base of the right hand stick there is a spot for you to drop in a 3/8 bolt to keep the aux in neutral. You have to take off the central plate to get at it I think. It's been a while since I did it.
Thanks Jerry, know the little hole well. Every time I took off the seat pan I reminded myself to drop the bolt in, and then forgot. Not again
I think I'm going to put the bolt in, remove the linkage from the right stick, find the neutral point of the aux (by motor laboring noises), drill a hole in the side of the chassis and bolt the linkage in there.
Unless I hear that this is stupid and dangerous, I'm going to go and get at it.
 
Thanks Jerry, know the little hole well. Every time I took off the seat pan I reminded myself to drop the bolt in, and then forgot. Not again
I think I'm going to put the bolt in, remove the linkage from the right stick, find the neutral point of the aux (by motor laboring noises), drill a hole in the side of the chassis and bolt the linkage in there.
Unless I hear that this is stupid and dangerous, I'm going to go and get at it.
Thanks AntFarmer.
Tazza was correct that the little balls had frozen in place. But, it looks like the spool is fully "pulled out", ie: when I removed the cap, I had to pull the spool back a little to disengage the aux hyd. Pulling it even further back seems to labour up the engine again. So, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, the aux hyd spool seems to have two positions for engaging the aux hyd function - forward and back, with a center position where the aux is disengaged.
I assume that the stick motion is supposed to prevent the forward spool position from engaging, meaning that the spool can either be centre (disengage aux hyd) or back (stick right, engage aux hyd).
My stick hinge is so sloppy that I think I managed to pull the spool forward, causing the spool to engage aux hyd (but in the "opposite" manner). Perhaps when I pulled it forward, the springs and balls fell in behind the spool, preventing it from moving backward into the centre position. I'll let the list know.
 
Thanks AntFarmer.
Tazza was correct that the little balls had frozen in place. But, it looks like the spool is fully "pulled out", ie: when I removed the cap, I had to pull the spool back a little to disengage the aux hyd. Pulling it even further back seems to labour up the engine again. So, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, the aux hyd spool seems to have two positions for engaging the aux hyd function - forward and back, with a center position where the aux is disengaged.
I assume that the stick motion is supposed to prevent the forward spool position from engaging, meaning that the spool can either be centre (disengage aux hyd) or back (stick right, engage aux hyd).
My stick hinge is so sloppy that I think I managed to pull the spool forward, causing the spool to engage aux hyd (but in the "opposite" manner). Perhaps when I pulled it forward, the springs and balls fell in behind the spool, preventing it from moving backward into the centre position. I'll let the list know.
The spring is meant to move the spool back into neutral. I wouldn't go so far to disengage the aux hydraulics. Replace the balls and you should be good to go for some time.
With the cap off, there is nothing there to hold it in neutral.
The aux hydraulics do move in both directions, that's why it bogs when you move it past neutral in both directions. For things like a 4 in 1 bucket, you need to be able to open and close it, moving the lever makes it go in 2 directions.
 

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