Thomas Backhoe

[Jyuma]

Here i was, all happy that it was working so well, then i read the next post saying it piddled a bit on the floor. Hopefully just a fitting *crosses fingers again*

The good news is that it was only a hose that blew... the bad news is that it was the bucket curl hose, the longest at 13 feet 4 inches, and the most buried.
Long story short... given the amount of dismantling required to replace the bucket hoses, I decided to replace all six hoses that travel up (and in) the boom. I’m trying the reusable fittings… no crimping required… the book says they meet or exceed the specs. Seventy feet of hose and the various required fittings cost just under $275 (with shipping) so I figure I’m way ahead of the game if the reusable fittings work out.

 

[SkidRoe]

The good news is that it was only a hose that blew... the bad news is that it was the bucket curl hose, the longest at 13 feet 4 inches, and the most buried.
Long story short... given the amount of dismantling required to replace the bucket hoses, I decided to replace all six hoses that travel up (and in) the boom. I’m trying the reusable fittings… no crimping required… the book says they meet or exceed the specs. Seventy feet of hose and the various required fittings cost just under $275 (with shipping) so I figure I’m way ahead of the game if the reusable fittings work out.

Hi Ed, I don't know if you have ever used re-useable fittings before, but a couple of things to note: 1) make sure you get a style of fitting that does not require the hose to be skived (have the outer cover of the hose removed where the body of the fitting sits). Skiving the hose is a pain in the rear, and is dificult to do properly with out the proper equipment; 2) use oil when assembling the fitting, it makes the threads go together much more smoothly. Good luck - SR

 

[Jyuma]

Hi Ed, I don't know if you have ever used re-useable fittings before, but a couple of things to note: 1) make sure you get a style of fitting that does not require the hose to be skived (have the outer cover of the hose removed where the body of the fitting sits). Skiving the hose is a pain in the rear, and is dificult to do properly with out the proper equipment; 2) use oil when assembling the fitting, it makes the threads go together much more smoothly. Good luck - SR

I ordered SAE100R2AT hose and R2-06-608 fittings. The supplier says these are the fittings that go with that hose.
I'm told the fittings come apart and you thread the outer fitting right over the hose (left hand) until it bottoms and then back 1/2 turn to allow for stretch. Then clamp the outer portion in a vise... apply hydro or oil to the inner portion... and then thread it into the hose as far as it goes. The instructions I viewed say it take a whole heap of pressure to thread the inner portion all the way.

 

[SkidRoe]

I ordered SAE100R2AT hose and R2-06-608 fittings. The supplier says these are the fittings that go with that hose.
I'm told the fittings come apart and you thread the outer fitting right over the hose (left hand) until it bottoms and then back 1/2 turn to allow for stretch. Then clamp the outer portion in a vise... apply hydro or oil to the inner portion... and then thread it into the hose as far as it goes. The instructions I viewed say it take a whole heap of pressure to thread the inner portion all the way.

That sounds like the kind that I am familiar with. Sanding a slight chamfer on the end helps get the outer shell started. The worst part is getting the thread started on the inner part; this is where the oil comes in. Once you have it started, winding in the inner takes some effort, but is a pretty smooth operation. Cheers.

 

[Tazza]

That sounds like the kind that I am familiar with. Sanding a slight chamfer on the end helps get the outer shell started. The worst part is getting the thread started on the inner part; this is where the oil comes in. Once you have it started, winding in the inner takes some effort, but is a pretty smooth operation. Cheers.

They are quite firm to screw down, but its not that bad, especially for the size hose you will be using.
I do love the fact you can use these fittings to make up your own hoses, especially when you are in a bind and need something now. They have saved me more than once! I have a few used ones that i wouldn't part with, you never know when one will be needed.

 

[Jyuma]

They are quite firm to screw down, but its not that bad, especially for the size hose you will be using.
I do love the fact you can use these fittings to make up your own hoses, especially when you are in a bind and need something now. They have saved me more than once! I have a few used ones that i wouldn't part with, you never know when one will be needed.

Do you guys know why they don't make a male reusable fitting that you can thread into a fixed female fitting without having the hose spin along with the male fitting?

 

[Tazza]

Do you guys know why they don't make a male reusable fitting that you can thread into a fixed female fitting without having the hose spin along with the male fitting?

That sounds right, the way they are designed they can't spin. Its not too bad if you have a female swivel on the other end, you tighten up the male, let the hose rotate with it and fasten the other end as it it doesn't need to spin the hose.
Thinking about the way they are made, i'm not sure how you would go about making it so it could swivel. Its rare that it would be needed so though.

 

[Jyuma]

That sounds right, the way they are designed they can't spin. Its not too bad if you have a female swivel on the other end, you tighten up the male, let the hose rotate with it and fasten the other end as it it doesn't need to spin the hose.
Thinking about the way they are made, i'm not sure how you would go about making it so it could swivel. Its rare that it would be needed so though.

On the BH 108 backhoe the boom hoses are clamped to the boom underneath the boom cylinder. They pass beyond the end of the cylinder (pointing toward the dipper stick knuckle) and then turn back 180 degrees to connect to the stationary end of the boom cylinder. There is no way to make the connection to the cylinder first and then feed the hoses under the cylinder, through the clamps, down to the pivot point of the boom and then through the hose protector sleeve and up to the valves.
To get around the problem of connecting male non-swivel fittings to the cylinder fitting I ordered all female swivel fittings for the hoses and NPT to JIC adapters for the cylinder connections.

 

[Tazza]

On the BH 108 backhoe the boom hoses are clamped to the boom underneath the boom cylinder. They pass beyond the end of the cylinder (pointing toward the dipper stick knuckle) and then turn back 180 degrees to connect to the stationary end of the boom cylinder. There is no way to make the connection to the cylinder first and then feed the hoses under the cylinder, through the clamps, down to the pivot point of the boom and then through the hose protector sleeve and up to the valves.
To get around the problem of connecting male non-swivel fittings to the cylinder fitting I ordered all female swivel fittings for the hoses and NPT to JIC adapters for the cylinder connections.

Don't you love it when the person(s) that designed the cylinders/hose setup never thought about the poor sod that needs to service it at a later date?

 

[SkidRoe]

On the BH 108 backhoe the boom hoses are clamped to the boom underneath the boom cylinder. They pass beyond the end of the cylinder (pointing toward the dipper stick knuckle) and then turn back 180 degrees to connect to the stationary end of the boom cylinder. There is no way to make the connection to the cylinder first and then feed the hoses under the cylinder, through the clamps, down to the pivot point of the boom and then through the hose protector sleeve and up to the valves.
To get around the problem of connecting male non-swivel fittings to the cylinder fitting I ordered all female swivel fittings for the hoses and NPT to JIC adapters for the cylinder connections.

Do you have a picture of this? I think I understand it, and may have a solution for you, but a picture would help.

 

[Jyuma]

Do you have a picture of this? I think I understand it, and may have a solution for you, but a picture would help.

Unfortunately I have the boom and all the cylinders completely disassembled but later today I will position the boom on the shop floor and lay the cylinder in position to show the hose routing.

 

[Jyuma]

Unfortunately I have the boom and all the cylinders completely disassembled but later today I will position the boom on the shop floor and lay the cylinder in position to show the hose routing.

Begin rant!!!
Maybe it's me but wouldn't you expect that if a hydraulic parts supplier takes your money, that they actually have the parts they just sold you and are able to deliver them as promised within a reasonable length of time? Well... not if the supplier is named Discount Hydraulic Hose.
Discount Hydraulic Hose thinks that it is perfectly acceptable to take your money and not make any attempt at letting you know that they don't have the parts that you just ordered and that they won't have the parts for at least a month. Then... after a few weeks wait... when you finally start thinking that maybe something isn't right and you go to their site and lookup your order status, that's when you first learn that the parts are on backorder and won't be coming anytime soon. Now alerted to this company's cavalier attitude toward your downtime you decide to check on the second order you placed a few days ago only to find that they can't make delivery on that one either.
Maybe it's me but I can't see myself dealing with a supplier who has demonstrated a total lack of concern for their customers needs. I will never deal with this company again.
End of rant!!!

 

[Tazza]

Begin rant!!!
Maybe it's me but wouldn't you expect that if a hydraulic parts supplier takes your money, that they actually have the parts they just sold you and are able to deliver them as promised within a reasonable length of time? Well... not if the supplier is named Discount Hydraulic Hose.
Discount Hydraulic Hose thinks that it is perfectly acceptable to take your money and not make any attempt at letting you know that they don't have the parts that you just ordered and that they won't have the parts for at least a month. Then... after a few weeks wait... when you finally start thinking that maybe something isn't right and you go to their site and lookup your order status, that's when you first learn that the parts are on backorder and won't be coming anytime soon. Now alerted to this company's cavalier attitude toward your downtime you decide to check on the second order you placed a few days ago only to find that they can't make delivery on that one either.
Maybe it's me but I can't see myself dealing with a supplier who has demonstrated a total lack of concern for their customers needs. I will never deal with this company again.
End of rant!!!

That's really poor service. My dad works in the hydraulic industry, the companies he deals with, when you place an order and they are not in stock they tell you and generally they are here over night. Over 4 weeks is un-acceptable, if they are the manufacturer i can understand it, the need to tool up etc, but if they are a supplier they should be able to get the parts fast. I bet they are consolidating orders to save on their freight and bugger the poor sod that is in need of the parts.....
What did they have to say when you complained about the service, or lack there of?

 

[Jyuma]

That's really poor service. My dad works in the hydraulic industry, the companies he deals with, when you place an order and they are not in stock they tell you and generally they are here over night. Over 4 weeks is un-acceptable, if they are the manufacturer i can understand it, the need to tool up etc, but if they are a supplier they should be able to get the parts fast. I bet they are consolidating orders to save on their freight and bugger the poor sod that is in need of the parts.....
What did they have to say when you complained about the service, or lack there of?

Tazza
I emailed their customer support people and let them know in no uncertain terms how shocked and disappointed I was by their lack of concern for the customers needs. I notified them that it was obvious that they were/are not in a position to deliver the parts they accepted payment for and I demanded that they cancel both orders and immediately refund the full purchase price. They have not yet responded.
Of particular interest is the fact that the adapters that Discount Hydraulic Hose needs a month to locate were readily available at my local Grainger Supply house. I took a 20 minute ride to Grainger the other day and picked up the adapters I needed. It is clear from this experience that Discount Hydraulic Hose does not stock adapters... maybe they stock hoses but they sure don't stock adapters if it takes them a month to ship a very common standard adapter.

 

[Jyuma]

Do you have a picture of this? I think I understand it, and may have a solution for you, but a picture would help.

SkidRoe
Maybe the following picture will help.

The boom cylinder is the lower one with the ram pointing back at the loader. Notice the 4 hydro lines emerging from the lower swing pivot point and traveling up the boom under the boom cylinder (there are two more traveling on top of the boom and connecting to the dipper stick cylinder).
You can see the two curl cylinder lines emerging from the dipper stick pivot point and connecting to the cylinder (large loop at the top) but what you can't see are the other two lines that are concealed by the boom and loop back to connect to the right side of the boom cylinder.
If the boom cylinder could be disconnected from the boom (right side in the photo) and pivoted up, I might be able to get to the clamps under the boom cylinder but there is a welded cross member just below and to the right of the two large oblong holes at approximately the mid-section of the boom. (you can see the cross member through one of the large oblong holes) This welded cross member prevents the boom cylinder from being pivoted up and causes you to remove both ends (pins) of the boom cylinder and then slide it up the boom to clear the cross member before the boom cylinder can be removed. In other words... it grew there.

 

[SkidRoe]

SkidRoe
Maybe the following picture will help.

The boom cylinder is the lower one with the ram pointing back at the loader. Notice the 4 hydro lines emerging from the lower swing pivot point and traveling up the boom under the boom cylinder (there are two more traveling on top of the boom and connecting to the dipper stick cylinder).
You can see the two curl cylinder lines emerging from the dipper stick pivot point and connecting to the cylinder (large loop at the top) but what you can't see are the other two lines that are concealed by the boom and loop back to connect to the right side of the boom cylinder.
If the boom cylinder could be disconnected from the boom (right side in the photo) and pivoted up, I might be able to get to the clamps under the boom cylinder but there is a welded cross member just below and to the right of the two large oblong holes at approximately the mid-section of the boom. (you can see the cross member through one of the large oblong holes) This welded cross member prevents the boom cylinder from being pivoted up and causes you to remove both ends (pins) of the boom cylinder and then slide it up the boom to clear the cross member before the boom cylinder can be removed. In other words... it grew there.

Huh, that is a bit of a dillema / PITA. The hose swiveling issue could be overcome by replacing the rigid male JIC hose ends with female JIC swivel hose ends and a pair of JIC tube unions (Parker P/N 8 HTX ,assuming that they are 1/2“ fittings), if there is room.
I am guessing that the factory assembly method used was to apply the boom cylinder to the boom prior to the boom assembly being applied to the the swing pivot assembly. Doesn't really help you that much, as that is a lot of disassemby to perform just to replace the hoses.
I am guessing that the 'engineer' who came up with this design did not have an agricultural background...
HTH,
SR

 

[Wm McNett]

I wish it were that easy. The #6 valve has a “service port restrictor“ connected to both working ports and they are male -10 ORB on one end and female -10 ORB on the other. I need an adapter to go from the new valves female work port size of -8 ORB to the existing male “service port restrictor -10 ORB. Then everything else will connect fine.
Here is a photo of the “service port restrictor” with the JIC fitting attached.

In the photo above you can see the JIC fitting which connects to the right side of the “Service Port Restrictor“ via a -10 ORB. The JIC side is where the hydraulic line connects. The left side of the “Service Port Restrictor“ connects directly to the valve. The old valve was -10 ORB and the new valve is -8 ORB. I need an adapter to go from male -8 ORB to female -10 ORB.

I didnt think about it before but the surplus center has lots O fittings
SAE 8M TO SAE 10F ADAPTER
Male "O" Ring to Female "O" Ring Adapter
Size SAE 8 male to SAE 10 female. Shpg 1/2 lb
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6410-8-10&catname=hydraulic

 

[Jyuma]

I didnt think about it before but the surplus center has lots O fittings
SAE 8M TO SAE 10F ADAPTER
Male "O" Ring to Female "O" Ring Adapter
Size SAE 8 male to SAE 10 female. Shpg 1/2 lb
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6410-8-10&catname=hydraulic

Thanks. I added them to my favorites bar and next time I'll try them first.

 

[Tazza]

Thanks. I added them to my favorites bar and next time I'll try them first.

They are pretty good at surplus center. I got a box of goodies from them last week for my next project (high pressure compressor). Its scary when the freight costs the same as the gear i wanted to buy

 

[skidsteer.ca]

They are pretty good at surplus center. I got a box of goodies from them last week for my next project (high pressure compressor). Its scary when the freight costs the same as the gear i wanted to buy

Yes surplus center has always been good to deal with.
I got some flat faced couplers from DHH and was less then satisfied too. Sent back 5 of 16 that leaked from the moment they where installed. I did not return them quick enough for warranty (pita for me to travel a hour to the border to ship back a $40 part)
I was installing them as needed on attachments. The duds kept adding up and when I got a few I called and they said “unusual“. Ended up sending them back for “flushing”, called to remind them once after and months later still no parts back. I'll spend the extra 25 on genuine Fasters now.
Ken