The new Cat CTL machines!

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bobcat_ron

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So if you have visited Lawnsite recently, there was a pic posted of a Caterpillar internal memo with a pic of the new Cat 299C CTL with their new Rubber/Steel undercarriage. The post has since been removed due to what could be Cat executives contacting the forum owners, but asmy memory serves me, there are 3 options now for Cat tracked loaders, (1) MTL (ASV) Undercarriages, good for high floatation and traction and ride comfort. (2) CTL, true rubber with steel imbeds (Bridgestone tracks) Cat built undercarriage (with ASV torsion axles, not 100% sure) good for Rental and rocky applications and all out beating on (3) XDL, Loegering VTS equipped SSL's with bigger drive trains.

According to a member on LawnSite.com, these new CTL's have an electronic torque management which will give them a huge amount of pushing power.
Look for the new 279, 289, 299 C Series to hit the dealers in August 2008.
 

siduramaxde

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Maybe in 5 years I'll be able to buy one these newer machines. Right now the T200 is going to have to do for the 100 or so hours I put on in a year.
 

ccstrebe

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The Cat dealer just left me some info and pictures of an in the field test unit in Phoenix on the new CTL's. He said I could go try it out if I want. They do have the torsion system.
 
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bobcat_ron

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The Cat dealer just left me some info and pictures of an in the field test unit in Phoenix on the new CTL's. He said I could go try it out if I want. They do have the torsion system.
I hope you like it, Torsion systems are the way to go!
 

ccstrebe

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I hope you like it, Torsion systems are the way to go!
What can you tell me about the torsion system, what do you like about them. After reading all that I can on the forums, I'm starting to lean towards to 297c over the 450ct. I think it will depend on the price and what they will give me on my trade-in. I only have 330 hr on my 450 ct and the Case dealer doesn't seem to want to deal much. To me the ultimate machine would be the 297c with the Case radial linkage arms, (the cycle time for scoop/dump is so fast) and the way that Case has the fuel and hydro fluid built into the frame (no plastics tanks).
 
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bobcat_ron

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What can you tell me about the torsion system, what do you like about them. After reading all that I can on the forums, I'm starting to lean towards to 297c over the 450ct. I think it will depend on the price and what they will give me on my trade-in. I only have 330 hr on my 450 ct and the Case dealer doesn't seem to want to deal much. To me the ultimate machine would be the 297c with the Case radial linkage arms, (the cycle time for scoop/dump is so fast) and the way that Case has the fuel and hydro fluid built into the frame (no plastics tanks).
It's the same deal like I mentioned to you on the phone, it lets the tracks move easier over rough terrain, this last job I did, I was travelling over the road over and on top of a lawn, I had to go over a 6 inch concrete curb (the type that is meant to be driven over by vehicles, but still large enough to slow them down) and I could hit it at a good speed and not get jolted around, the torsion axles even allowed me to keep my bucket edge level to start digging into my pile, even when I was at a 45 degree angle coming off the road.
Last year my brother and I demo'ed a Deere 700J versus a our Cat D4, even though it was an apples to oranges comparison, be both said the ride was better because of the equalizer bars that allow the tracks to pivot in the middle, and the machine maintained more traction, the D4 just didn't want to do the same, so it is exactly the same as a rigid frame versus suspended frame CTL, the ride and traction control is much better.
Cat's hydraulic tanks are plastic, but there are no problems with it, even in the far north where plastic gets brittle, the fuel tanks are in the belly of the machine, this adds to the lower center of gravity than Case, and again it is plastic, which reduces weight, cost and condensation build up. If I had to buy a C Series right now, I would be more than willing to negotiate a trade off for a 277C, I like the radius path design, with the cylinder in the rear, this gives better visibility like the vertical paths have.
 
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bobcat_ron

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It's the same deal like I mentioned to you on the phone, it lets the tracks move easier over rough terrain, this last job I did, I was travelling over the road over and on top of a lawn, I had to go over a 6 inch concrete curb (the type that is meant to be driven over by vehicles, but still large enough to slow them down) and I could hit it at a good speed and not get jolted around, the torsion axles even allowed me to keep my bucket edge level to start digging into my pile, even when I was at a 45 degree angle coming off the road.
Last year my brother and I demo'ed a Deere 700J versus a our Cat D4, even though it was an apples to oranges comparison, be both said the ride was better because of the equalizer bars that allow the tracks to pivot in the middle, and the machine maintained more traction, the D4 just didn't want to do the same, so it is exactly the same as a rigid frame versus suspended frame CTL, the ride and traction control is much better.
Cat's hydraulic tanks are plastic, but there are no problems with it, even in the far north where plastic gets brittle, the fuel tanks are in the belly of the machine, this adds to the lower center of gravity than Case, and again it is plastic, which reduces weight, cost and condensation build up. If I had to buy a C Series right now, I would be more than willing to negotiate a trade off for a 277C, I like the radius path design, with the cylinder in the rear, this gives better visibility like the vertical paths have.
Any updates???
 

ccstrebe

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Any updates???
I got prices for a new 450ct, a 397c, and a 399c. The Cat CTL is about 3 grand cheaper than the Cat MTV. For my application, if I go with Cat I'm leaning toward the MTV over the CTL. I think I want the Cat (but I still havn't seen one in person yet) over the Case, but it is about 10 grand more than the Case. The Cat guy said he can fine tune the price and he still needs to figure out the trade in. (I havn't told him I'm looking at Case yet) I hope he might do a good deal because there are no Cat track units in this town and they want some exposure, he has to talk to the higher ups. I still havn't seen the new Case yet either. Next week I hope to go to San Diego and see the new Cases and Cats to make a final determination. Without seeing either machine I want the Cat but if Case has made major cab improvments and the Cat price doesn't get better I don't have a problem staying with Case even though for my application I think the Cat would be better.
 
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bobcat_ron

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I got prices for a new 450ct, a 397c, and a 399c. The Cat CTL is about 3 grand cheaper than the Cat MTV. For my application, if I go with Cat I'm leaning toward the MTV over the CTL. I think I want the Cat (but I still havn't seen one in person yet) over the Case, but it is about 10 grand more than the Case. The Cat guy said he can fine tune the price and he still needs to figure out the trade in. (I havn't told him I'm looking at Case yet) I hope he might do a good deal because there are no Cat track units in this town and they want some exposure, he has to talk to the higher ups. I still havn't seen the new Case yet either. Next week I hope to go to San Diego and see the new Cases and Cats to make a final determination. Without seeing either machine I want the Cat but if Case has made major cab improvments and the Cat price doesn't get better I don't have a problem staying with Case even though for my application I think the Cat would be better.
I do know that Cat's cabs are much, much wider than Case.


I'll say a prayer for you!!!
 

ksss

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I do know that Cat's cabs are much, much wider than Case.


I'll say a prayer for you!!!
Ron are spreading lies over here as well. The new CASE cab and the CAT cab are near identical in width. You will notice in the C series as well as the Series 3 that if your a bigger guy your legs are up against the control towers in both machines. I found myself pinning my legs against them in the 256C. Neither are overly spacious. I will make a couple quick points on this topic. If your used to a 450CT and are considering a Cat be sure to demo the CAT for a full day, doing what you do before you sign on the line. I spent a good day in a 256C and really thought CAT would field a better control system. Granted this did not have the AMICS system so maybe thats some of it. It was a dissapointment. Also you will be giving up about 70 foot pounds of torque between the two machines. The cycle times are not near what you have become used to with the 450. There is not another machine like the 450 on the market. After looking at the spec sheet I actually thought the 256C with the counter weights looked to compete in that market with the 450. The reality was it could not keep up with a 440 to say nothing of the 450. The CAT cab was comfortable, there have been others not happy with the pressurized system in them, but it was wet and cold when I demoed so I cant speak of that personally. A good demo will speak for itself.
 

ccstrebe

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Ron are spreading lies over here as well. The new CASE cab and the CAT cab are near identical in width. You will notice in the C series as well as the Series 3 that if your a bigger guy your legs are up against the control towers in both machines. I found myself pinning my legs against them in the 256C. Neither are overly spacious. I will make a couple quick points on this topic. If your used to a 450CT and are considering a Cat be sure to demo the CAT for a full day, doing what you do before you sign on the line. I spent a good day in a 256C and really thought CAT would field a better control system. Granted this did not have the AMICS system so maybe thats some of it. It was a dissapointment. Also you will be giving up about 70 foot pounds of torque between the two machines. The cycle times are not near what you have become used to with the 450. There is not another machine like the 450 on the market. After looking at the spec sheet I actually thought the 256C with the counter weights looked to compete in that market with the 450. The reality was it could not keep up with a 440 to say nothing of the 450. The CAT cab was comfortable, there have been others not happy with the pressurized system in them, but it was wet and cold when I demoed so I cant speak of that personally. A good demo will speak for itself.
I finally got to see the 297C today. I ran over to San Diego (3hr one way) and got to demo one. All I can say is WOW!! Comparing my 450ct to the 297c is like comparing an International pickup truck to to a Caddilac Escalde. I don't even know where to start on how much better the engineering is and how well thought out this machine is. It is way more ergonomic and user friendly and the engine access is unreal. I am at a loss of words on how much better this machine is. It was fully loaded, which is the same way I would get one. If the numbers are good I'm placing my order tomorrow. PS: When I compose my posts I have paragraphs but when posted no paragraphs, whats up with that?
 
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bobcat_ron

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I finally got to see the 297C today. I ran over to San Diego (3hr one way) and got to demo one. All I can say is WOW!! Comparing my 450ct to the 297c is like comparing an International pickup truck to to a Caddilac Escalde. I don't even know where to start on how much better the engineering is and how well thought out this machine is. It is way more ergonomic and user friendly and the engine access is unreal. I am at a loss of words on how much better this machine is. It was fully loaded, which is the same way I would get one. If the numbers are good I'm placing my order tomorrow. PS: When I compose my posts I have paragraphs but when posted no paragraphs, whats up with that?
Hit the enter key twice. Like this.

How was the ride quality? Do the torsion axles isolate the vibrations?
 

Tazza

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Hit the enter key twice. Like this.

How was the ride quality? Do the torsion axles isolate the vibrations?
To fix paragraphs, go to your profile and click the box that says:
"Use HTML Editor (Free Text Box)" then save the change
Problem solved! my bill will be in the mail :)
 

ccstrebe

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Hit the enter key twice. Like this.

How was the ride quality? Do the torsion axles isolate the vibrations?
I didn't get to demo it in really rough stuff but what I did demo it in, compared to my 450ct on the same type of terrean, it was like floating on air. The air suspension seat alone with its 6" of travel makes me feel like a king sitting on a throne. I didn't notice any vibrations and the cab noise seems to be about half of what the Case cab noise is. On the Case I wear noise cancelling head phones and I have to turn off the engine to answer a cell phone call.
There are so many things I like about this machine. I really like the split arm rests and the fact that they are adjustable. I like the location of the hand throttle, very easy to get to. I like the foot throttle pressure, the Case foot throttle is so stiff that it is usless, I wound up just keeping it full throttle at all times.
The machine I demoed didn't have the switch for the Case h pattern so I was a little lost with the pilot handles but they felt good.
 

lyndsaydean

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I didn't get to demo it in really rough stuff but what I did demo it in, compared to my 450ct on the same type of terrean, it was like floating on air. The air suspension seat alone with its 6" of travel makes me feel like a king sitting on a throne. I didn't notice any vibrations and the cab noise seems to be about half of what the Case cab noise is. On the Case I wear noise cancelling head phones and I have to turn off the engine to answer a cell phone call.
There are so many things I like about this machine. I really like the split arm rests and the fact that they are adjustable. I like the location of the hand throttle, very easy to get to. I like the foot throttle pressure, the Case foot throttle is so stiff that it is usless, I wound up just keeping it full throttle at all times.
The machine I demoed didn't have the switch for the Case h pattern so I was a little lost with the pilot handles but they felt good.
This month the CAT 299C should be released. I found all the specs online, as well as a picture (www.ransome.com). It looks like they definitely beefed up their torsion suspension and looks like a real sweet machine. Can't wait to test drive one.
 
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bobcat_ron

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This month the CAT 299C should be released. I found all the specs online, as well as a picture (www.ransome.com). It looks like they definitely beefed up their torsion suspension and looks like a real sweet machine. Can't wait to test drive one.
http://www.ransome.com/index.php?action=view&id=65&module=resourcesmodule&src=@random4884e79156b64
http://www.ransome.com/index.php?action=view&id=66&module=resourcesmodule&src=@random4884e79156b64
http://www.ransome.com/index.php?action=view&id=67&module=resourcesmodule&src=@random4884e79156b64
 
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