T190 or over the tire tracks?

[jbc]

Hey guys, I have a S185, and lately I have found myself needing greater flotation and traction. I do alot of backfilling around new home foundations and site clean up. Due to the tight spaces that I work in, any machine bigger than a 185 will be too big. I was thinking of buying a set of over the tire tracks with rubber pads, or trading for a T190. I know the 190 has a reputation for being underpowered, but what about the new 61 hp version? I run on asphalt alot going to different houses in the subdivision, so I think metal tracks are out. Has anyone had any experience with a 190 or tracks? Thanks Blake

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I would take a serious look at the Loegering VTS system. It seems to be extremely impressive and a few people have already reported tremendous positive results. They are pretty expensive ($15k), but given their strength and ease of removal, they seem like a better alternative than spending extra money on a T190. Seriously, however, if you are considering a track loader, do make sure you have the opportunity to use it. 864wood was able to do more with his loader -- but if you, as you say, will be going across concrete all day long, tracks of any sort won't be helpful. Turning on hot asphalt will mar the asphalt; turning on hard concrete will burn your tracks. My stance is that unless you have a plan to use the machine in flotation-necessary places a great deal of the time, dedicated tracks might not be for you. 864wood may have some other comments, given that he's given up his 864 and now has a S300...

 

[500K_773]

jbc,
I too have a 773T (previous naming convention for the S185) and find that I need more floatation and traction at times. My machine has the floatation tires (31.5”x13“x16.5”) so I may even have more traction that you, but is still not enough. I would love a track machine in addition to my tire equipped machine, but can't justify the cost of another machine. I do utilize my machine on asphalt, snow, and ice where a track loader may not be the best choice.
We have had a lot of snow this year and I expect a very wet spring. This means I will not be able to begin work until it dries up enough for my machine with tires to get around. I checked on the Loegering VTS system (which BobcatS250 mentioned), but it is not available for the wheelbase of our machines. I am currently looking at either McLaren Industries ProTrac systems (http://www.mclarenindustries.com/new/products.php?pID=3&PHPSESSID=e149ece287b75c280ff7f556e78d29d1) which are available in grouser bar, rubber pad, or magnum pad models. Contact McLaren industries for some information and they will send you an awesome DVD demonstating their tracks. Grouser Products (http://www.grouser.com/products/tracks/index.html) also offers their tracks in grouser, rubber, and steel pad models. I believe Grouser is the brand which Bobcat sells as their own cross bar tracks. I also believe Bobcat resells Loegering tracks as their loegering tracks. My dealer ordered a Bobcat part number for wheel spacers (to utilize chains on my loader) and the product which came in where Grouser brand spacers. BTW, Grouser will not sell direct, but can put you in contact with a dealer near you.
Overall, I believe you will get the additional traction and floatation that you require at a fraction of the cost compared to buying a T190. It is somewhere around a $16,000 - $20,000 price increase from a rubber tired skidsteer to a compact track loader. You should be able to get a set of over the tire tracks and wheel spaces for about $4,000. This will also give you the option of removing the tracks if tires are needed on asphalt.
Hope this helps.

 

[jbc]

jbc,
I too have a 773T (previous naming convention for the S185) and find that I need more floatation and traction at times. My machine has the floatation tires (31.5”x13“x16.5”) so I may even have more traction that you, but is still not enough. I would love a track machine in addition to my tire equipped machine, but can't justify the cost of another machine. I do utilize my machine on asphalt, snow, and ice where a track loader may not be the best choice.
We have had a lot of snow this year and I expect a very wet spring. This means I will not be able to begin work until it dries up enough for my machine with tires to get around. I checked on the Loegering VTS system (which BobcatS250 mentioned), but it is not available for the wheelbase of our machines. I am currently looking at either McLaren Industries ProTrac systems (http://www.mclarenindustries.com/new/products.php?pID=3&PHPSESSID=e149ece287b75c280ff7f556e78d29d1) which are available in grouser bar, rubber pad, or magnum pad models. Contact McLaren industries for some information and they will send you an awesome DVD demonstating their tracks. Grouser Products (http://www.grouser.com/products/tracks/index.html) also offers their tracks in grouser, rubber, and steel pad models. I believe Grouser is the brand which Bobcat sells as their own cross bar tracks. I also believe Bobcat resells Loegering tracks as their loegering tracks. My dealer ordered a Bobcat part number for wheel spacers (to utilize chains on my loader) and the product which came in where Grouser brand spacers. BTW, Grouser will not sell direct, but can put you in contact with a dealer near you.
Overall, I believe you will get the additional traction and floatation that you require at a fraction of the cost compared to buying a T190. It is somewhere around a $16,000 - $20,000 price increase from a rubber tired skidsteer to a compact track loader. You should be able to get a set of over the tire tracks and wheel spaces for about $4,000. This will also give you the option of removing the tracks if tires are needed on asphalt.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the replies. I called McLaren and requested info on the rubber pad tracks. I think these will fit my needs best. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Bob Horrell]

Thanks for the replies. I called McLaren and requested info on the rubber pad tracks. I think these will fit my needs best. Thanks again for the replies.

I have an S250 and used Grouser over the tire tracks. I now have the Loegering VTS system. It is awsome. I have a friend that wants them for his S185 so I called the Loegering Rep and asked when they would be available. He said he heard that they would announce them as available at the ConExpo show in Vegas and start taking orders right after. When they first came out they were not available for the S250 and the Rep kept me posted on availability and he was right on with all comments. McLaren makes good products, although a little pricey. I think the fact that the magnum and rubber track systems have interchangeable pads is a real plus for a lot of businesses. They can be swapped out while the tracks are on the machine although it will take some time. Over the tire tracks make a huge difference in the capability of a skidsteer. Not only the traction improves but the stability when loading etc. is significantly better. Although expensive, the VTS system is another giant step up from over the tire tracks. Their suspension system is a real plus and they have a very open design that makes them very easy to keep clean when working in muddy conditions (this is necessary for component longevity).

 

[Tigerotor77W]

jbc,
I too have a 773T (previous naming convention for the S185) and find that I need more floatation and traction at times. My machine has the floatation tires (31.5”x13“x16.5”) so I may even have more traction that you, but is still not enough. I would love a track machine in addition to my tire equipped machine, but can't justify the cost of another machine. I do utilize my machine on asphalt, snow, and ice where a track loader may not be the best choice.
We have had a lot of snow this year and I expect a very wet spring. This means I will not be able to begin work until it dries up enough for my machine with tires to get around. I checked on the Loegering VTS system (which BobcatS250 mentioned), but it is not available for the wheelbase of our machines. I am currently looking at either McLaren Industries ProTrac systems (http://www.mclarenindustries.com/new/products.php?pID=3&PHPSESSID=e149ece287b75c280ff7f556e78d29d1) which are available in grouser bar, rubber pad, or magnum pad models. Contact McLaren industries for some information and they will send you an awesome DVD demonstating their tracks. Grouser Products (http://www.grouser.com/products/tracks/index.html) also offers their tracks in grouser, rubber, and steel pad models. I believe Grouser is the brand which Bobcat sells as their own cross bar tracks. I also believe Bobcat resells Loegering tracks as their loegering tracks. My dealer ordered a Bobcat part number for wheel spacers (to utilize chains on my loader) and the product which came in where Grouser brand spacers. BTW, Grouser will not sell direct, but can put you in contact with a dealer near you.
Overall, I believe you will get the additional traction and floatation that you require at a fraction of the cost compared to buying a T190. It is somewhere around a $16,000 - $20,000 price increase from a rubber tired skidsteer to a compact track loader. You should be able to get a set of over the tire tracks and wheel spaces for about $4,000. This will also give you the option of removing the tracks if tires are needed on asphalt.
Hope this helps.

Mmm, you're right. I was under the impression that the acceptable wheelbase size went down to 39. Whoops. It was interesting to note that two models listed as compatible with the VTS still had wheelbases shorter than 43... not sure what they're thinking. In any case, good to hear, Bob, that you've found this site as well! Good to have you here. And good to hear, also, that Loegering may be coming out with a smaller model for the smaller machines.

 

[500K_773]

Mmm, you're right. I was under the impression that the acceptable wheelbase size went down to 39. Whoops. It was interesting to note that two models listed as compatible with the VTS still had wheelbases shorter than 43... not sure what they're thinking. In any case, good to hear, Bob, that you've found this site as well! Good to have you here. And good to hear, also, that Loegering may be coming out with a smaller model for the smaller machines.

Bob,
Thanks for the info on the upcoming VTS from Loegering for the S185 / 773 sized machines. I sent them an e-mail right after I read this post last night and they responded first thing this morning. They stated that it would be August before it was released for the smaller machines.
What type of Grouser tracks were you using on your machine before you went with the VTS system? Open-bar or rubber/steel pad? Was the additional cost of the VTS system worth and performance increase from increased floatation or traction? The VTS system weighs nearly 3400#, which is quite a bit more than the 1500# over the tire tracks. Was any of the floatation benefit cancelled out by the added weight?
Thanks again for the great info.

 

[Bob Horrell]

Bob,
Thanks for the info on the upcoming VTS from Loegering for the S185 / 773 sized machines. I sent them an e-mail right after I read this post last night and they responded first thing this morning. They stated that it would be August before it was released for the smaller machines.
What type of Grouser tracks were you using on your machine before you went with the VTS system? Open-bar or rubber/steel pad? Was the additional cost of the VTS system worth and performance increase from increased floatation or traction? The VTS system weighs nearly 3400#, which is quite a bit more than the 1500# over the tire tracks. Was any of the floatation benefit cancelled out by the added weight?
Thanks again for the great info.

I had (still have, but want to sell) the open bar Grouser tracks. They are excellent in mud and regular dirt. They fell short in sandy conditions and there is a lot of that around where I work. I was always taking them on and off because of it. I have yet to take my VTS system off. The VTS system is more stable due a lot to the extra weight but also do to the much greater surface area in contact with the ground. They touch the ground well in front of and well behind where over the tire tracks make contact and they are significantly wider. We had the 100 year rainstorms here in Southern California right after I purchased my VTS system so I was able to use them extensively in areas where not much else could work. My timing was good. One of the things I do is build Motocross tracks and I just built one last weekend for the first time using the VTS system. It is like they were made for it. I charge more when using the VTS system and it is a good thing because I saved at least 30% of my normal time using these tracks. I will only take them off when I have a job that would really be difficult using them (and one that I just wouldn't want to do with my skiploader). Although pricey, for a guy like me they are ideal. I can't afford to have both a regular skidsteer and a track loader and this is a much cheaper way to go and have the availability of both machines. I have come up with a way to install and de-install pretty quickly so if you end up getting them let me know and I will tell you about my method.

 

[864wood]

I had (still have, but want to sell) the open bar Grouser tracks. They are excellent in mud and regular dirt. They fell short in sandy conditions and there is a lot of that around where I work. I was always taking them on and off because of it. I have yet to take my VTS system off. The VTS system is more stable due a lot to the extra weight but also do to the much greater surface area in contact with the ground. They touch the ground well in front of and well behind where over the tire tracks make contact and they are significantly wider. We had the 100 year rainstorms here in Southern California right after I purchased my VTS system so I was able to use them extensively in areas where not much else could work. My timing was good. One of the things I do is build Motocross tracks and I just built one last weekend for the first time using the VTS system. It is like they were made for it. I charge more when using the VTS system and it is a good thing because I saved at least 30% of my normal time using these tracks. I will only take them off when I have a job that would really be difficult using them (and one that I just wouldn't want to do with my skiploader). Although pricey, for a guy like me they are ideal. I can't afford to have both a regular skidsteer and a track loader and this is a much cheaper way to go and have the availability of both machines. I have come up with a way to install and de-install pretty quickly so if you end up getting them let me know and I will tell you about my method.

This is hopefully the post that has been inevitable. I purchased the S-300 and was despondent after my first backfill. I spent twice the time as opposed to my 864G loader. However the benifit of tires for the subsequent 6 snowstorms was enormous. There is nothing like tires for flat pavement and cuts down on the costs, because tires can be purchased on E-Bay for @ $110 delivered to your door and repalcement track are $3K-$4K installed. Having said that I have purchased the over the tire Grouser tracks and I love them. They take ten minutes to take off and 30-40 minutes to put on with no helper. They also for my size machine exhibit all the same breakout strenght and pushing power I was acustomed to with the track loader. The floatation is not quite as good but better by a large margin than just tires. I went with Grouser as opposed to the standard Loegring due to the slippage I have seen with other machines with steel Loegrering tracks. A New Holland with steel legering was spinning his tires inside the tracks when pushing large loads. With the Grouser this is not an issue due to their configuration. They also shed mud better and don't cleat up. The biggest downfall I see is !!!!!Do NOt Drive Them On Anything You Do Not Want Marred UP!!!! I sure do miss my rubber track loader, but all in good time. Business is picking up and I still hope to have my luxury T-300 by the end of the year.