New guy looking for machine

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

OK guys, I really appreciate all the help it has been invaluable to me because I did not know where to start. Now I have just one more pre-purchase question. We are at $13600 for machine, tracks, and spacers and are at an impasse, from what i have seen on the net it looks to be high. But I know nothing about these machines and how much condition matters or what a truly fair value would be. All I can find for true sale prices are auction results which tell you nothing about condition, even so nothing I found was over $9000 without spacers or tracks. Can someone please knock me off this fence?

How does the purchase break down? Tracks? Spacers? Labor to install? I tend to use auction pricing as the standard, unless I know otherwise what things are going for. My buddy couldn't get more than $8000 for an '02 LS170 with 500 hours, so he took itto auction and that's all it brought. If you have $13500, buy new and use that toward a huge down payment, with low, low interest through Case-NewHolland Credit thru the dealer. I got my $47,000 (MSRP) LS185.b for 3.9% for 5 years. You might get zero% for 3 years.

 

[robmints]

How does the purchase break down? Tracks? Spacers? Labor to install? I tend to use auction pricing as the standard, unless I know otherwise what things are going for. My buddy couldn't get more than $8000 for an '02 LS170 with 500 hours, so he took itto auction and that's all it brought. If you have $13500, buy new and use that toward a huge down payment, with low, low interest through Case-NewHolland Credit thru the dealer. I got my $47,000 (MSRP) LS185.b for 3.9% for 5 years. You might get zero% for 3 years.

Earthwerks I'm just not a payment type of person for stuff like this. If I was making money with it and it was paying for it's self, that would be different. It breaks down to $12,200 for the machine and $1400 for the used tracks and spacers. I need to put the tracks on. The dealer said it was a cash or check deal and they could not put the tracks on at that price. I think I do understand what you are saying though about new.

 

[robmints]

Earthwerks I'm just not a payment type of person for stuff like this. If I was making money with it and it was paying for it's self, that would be different. It breaks down to $12,200 for the machine and $1400 for the used tracks and spacers. I need to put the tracks on. The dealer said it was a cash or check deal and they could not put the tracks on at that price. I think I do understand what you are saying though about new.

I looked at another machine today and it looked nice. I did not have time to go over the whole thing but when the guy that was with me started it up he waited about a minute or two and moved forward, all was well. Then when he went to throttle up an alarm went off, any idea what it could be? He said he thought it was that the oil was too cold. What would make an alarm go off from being cold? It was about 20F. Thanks.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

I looked at another machine today and it looked nice. I did not have time to go over the whole thing but when the guy that was with me started it up he waited about a minute or two and moved forward, all was well. Then when he went to throttle up an alarm went off, any idea what it could be? He said he thought it was that the oil was too cold. What would make an alarm go off from being cold? It was about 20F. Thanks.

Depending on the year and model, it could be anything from low on fuel, clogged air cleaner, clogged hydraulic filter, low battery, seat belt disconnected (or seat belt connected but no operator), low oil pressure, engine too hot (or bad sensor if cold), hydraulic fluid too hot (or bad sensor if cold), etc.

 

[robmints]

Depending on the year and model, it could be anything from low on fuel, clogged air cleaner, clogged hydraulic filter, low battery, seat belt disconnected (or seat belt connected but no operator), low oil pressure, engine too hot (or bad sensor if cold), hydraulic fluid too hot (or bad sensor if cold), etc.

Thanks Earthwerks. I will get them to check in the morning.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I looked at another machine today and it looked nice. I did not have time to go over the whole thing but when the guy that was with me started it up he waited about a minute or two and moved forward, all was well. Then when he went to throttle up an alarm went off, any idea what it could be? He said he thought it was that the oil was too cold. What would make an alarm go off from being cold? It was about 20F. Thanks.

My 853 does the cold oil warning. The oil is to thick to flow through the filter fast enough below the 32 f and a sensor senses the drop in charge pressure going through the filter and gives a "filter clogged" warning. 2 or 3 mins of idling and you can drive off and work at less then 1/2 throttle. Another 2 to 3 mins and full rpm, all should be normal.
Do pay close attention to transmission warning beeps after this though. Ask the owner to explain any codes or warnings (get the book out if you want) beacuse some are spendy to make better, and you don't want to buy someone else trouble.
What year is the 565?
Also look the used tracks over for slop in the pivot pins and wear on the pads inside and out.
Take a set of forks and spread them out if need be.
When I was looking I had more then one dealer try to sell me used tracks in a pile, it was hard to inspect them close. Most were junk. How much is 1.5 hours install labor really going to cost the dealer, because that about all it takes to install them if you know what your doing. Also when they are installed you can see how much they are stretched and see how many places there are left to tighten them.
The old style Loeguring I used to have could be shortend 1 inch in 7 places, then there was one single shoe that could be removed from each side of the track, then you lenghtened the six remaining places back out. Then you could shorten, 1 inch at a time and wear them that much more, after that they could no longer be shortend and were wore out.
Hopefully now Loeguring has gone to a sytem that allow shortening at every pad, and unbolting and removing any one shoe. This way if you break a shoe it can be replaced, and the track lenght is infinitely adjustable
Our tracks are not as heavy duty as the Loeguring, but last 1500 to 1800 hours and you could have new tracks and spacer shipped to you for $1700 to $1750.
So make sure the used one have a good amount of life left in them.
Ken

 

[robmints]

My 853 does the cold oil warning. The oil is to thick to flow through the filter fast enough below the 32 f and a sensor senses the drop in charge pressure going through the filter and gives a "filter clogged" warning. 2 or 3 mins of idling and you can drive off and work at less then 1/2 throttle. Another 2 to 3 mins and full rpm, all should be normal.
Do pay close attention to transmission warning beeps after this though. Ask the owner to explain any codes or warnings (get the book out if you want) beacuse some are spendy to make better, and you don't want to buy someone else trouble.
What year is the 565?
Also look the used tracks over for slop in the pivot pins and wear on the pads inside and out.
Take a set of forks and spread them out if need be.
When I was looking I had more then one dealer try to sell me used tracks in a pile, it was hard to inspect them close. Most were junk. How much is 1.5 hours install labor really going to cost the dealer, because that about all it takes to install them if you know what your doing. Also when they are installed you can see how much they are stretched and see how many places there are left to tighten them.
The old style Loeguring I used to have could be shortend 1 inch in 7 places, then there was one single shoe that could be removed from each side of the track, then you lenghtened the six remaining places back out. Then you could shorten, 1 inch at a time and wear them that much more, after that they could no longer be shortend and were wore out.
Hopefully now Loeguring has gone to a sytem that allow shortening at every pad, and unbolting and removing any one shoe. This way if you break a shoe it can be replaced, and the track lenght is infinitely adjustable
Our tracks are not as heavy duty as the Loeguring, but last 1500 to 1800 hours and you could have new tracks and spacer shipped to you for $1700 to $1750.
So make sure the used one have a good amount of life left in them.
Ken

Hey Ken. First, the machine with the warning beeps was a different machine I looked at today. It is at another dealer. LS160, 2001, sold new in 2002, 470 hrs., serviced at a NH dealer at 404 hrs. Serviced every 100 hrs, receipts, and all paper work from new. Owners manuals and all the little safety pamphlets, spare track links, tools, all the things usually lost when you get something new. Same price as the LX565. The LX565 overall condition was what I would call pristine and this 160 I would call excellent/very good. The LX 565 was freshly serviced with 0 hrs on the service. The 160 was just traded earlier in the day and it has Solideal rubber tracks that look good. The tires underneath show very little tread wear, you can still read the size on the tread portion that usually touches the ground. The sidewalls are not perfect where the tracks hit them though. I did not have much time to look at the 160 this afternoon so I will go back lunchtime. Your info is very valuable to me though because the 565 is still in the mix. But the 160 is going to be the winner if no problems are found or you guys don't tell me anything bad. We might get snow tomorrow so that would put me back a day. It's not the snow as much as other drivers, I'm learning from Jackel440.

 

[robmints]

Hey Ken. First, the machine with the warning beeps was a different machine I looked at today. It is at another dealer. LS160, 2001, sold new in 2002, 470 hrs., serviced at a NH dealer at 404 hrs. Serviced every 100 hrs, receipts, and all paper work from new. Owners manuals and all the little safety pamphlets, spare track links, tools, all the things usually lost when you get something new. Same price as the LX565. The LX565 overall condition was what I would call pristine and this 160 I would call excellent/very good. The LX 565 was freshly serviced with 0 hrs on the service. The 160 was just traded earlier in the day and it has Solideal rubber tracks that look good. The tires underneath show very little tread wear, you can still read the size on the tread portion that usually touches the ground. The sidewalls are not perfect where the tracks hit them though. I did not have much time to look at the 160 this afternoon so I will go back lunchtime. Your info is very valuable to me though because the 565 is still in the mix. But the 160 is going to be the winner if no problems are found or you guys don't tell me anything bad. We might get snow tomorrow so that would put me back a day. It's not the snow as much as other drivers, I'm learning from Jackel440.

Needed air filters. Minister of Finance wrote the check. Gave it to a friend so he could pick it up for me, should be tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Needed air filters. Minister of Finance wrote the check. Gave it to a friend so he could pick it up for me, should be tomorrow or Thursday.

Rob
I'm not sure what if anything NH changed when the model # changed from lx565 to ls160. Not much as far as I know. The newer model may have a better resale, because people perceive a improvement or update with the newer number. You should ask the dealer to show you i n his blue book. Worst he can say is no.
Did you need to put air filters in at the dealer or as soon as it came home?
Good condition versus pristeen, is likely a toss up, because regardless of how careful you are, you will scratch it up some in the bush, especialy working on slopes, where the machine does not alway go exactly where you intended it to.
I ordered your bar Mon, but have not heard a ship date yet.
Ken

 

[robmints]

Rob
I'm not sure what if anything NH changed when the model # changed from lx565 to ls160. Not much as far as I know. The newer model may have a better resale, because people perceive a improvement or update with the newer number. You should ask the dealer to show you i n his blue book. Worst he can say is no.
Did you need to put air filters in at the dealer or as soon as it came home?
Good condition versus pristeen, is likely a toss up, because regardless of how careful you are, you will scratch it up some in the bush, especialy working on slopes, where the machine does not alway go exactly where you intended it to.
I ordered your bar Mon, but have not heard a ship date yet.
Ken

Ken. Don't order a bar for me! The new one came with one! How in the world did we get that confused? Let me know if I owe you restocking! The dealer changed the filters I have not taken delivery yet. Let me know about the bar.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Ken. Don't order a bar for me! The new one came with one! How in the world did we get that confused? Let me know if I owe you restocking! The dealer changed the filters I have not taken delivery yet. Let me know about the bar.

Sorry Rob, I ordered one for Mike, You enquired just after that, and I flip the names around, My apologies. Harder to keep track when its online then in person.
That how that got screwd up, I'm was a little asleep at 5.30 I guess.
Ken

 

[robmints]

Sorry Rob, I ordered one for Mike, You enquired just after that, and I flip the names around, My apologies. Harder to keep track when its online then in person.
That how that got screwd up, I'm was a little asleep at 5.30 I guess.
Ken

You had me going there Ken. I thought for a minute there I was going to have a tooth bar on the top of the bucket too. Well the machine is at my house, but I'm not. The guy who dropped it off said everything was fine until he went down my drive and it freewheeled down the hill. It is a pretty steep hill but it sounds like I may have some more questions. He said it did not feel like hydraulics, more like the tracks slipping or something "in the chain box". Since I don't know what the chain box is his description did not help a whole bunch, but we will look when I get home. If anyone has any thoughts they would be appreciated.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

You had me going there Ken. I thought for a minute there I was going to have a tooth bar on the top of the bucket too. Well the machine is at my house, but I'm not. The guy who dropped it off said everything was fine until he went down my drive and it freewheeled down the hill. It is a pretty steep hill but it sounds like I may have some more questions. He said it did not feel like hydraulics, more like the tracks slipping or something "in the chain box". Since I don't know what the chain box is his description did not help a whole bunch, but we will look when I get home. If anyone has any thoughts they would be appreciated.

Couple things--McLaren told me a few years ago that the rubber tracks suck 30% of the HP just to turn them--not good. Secondly, it sounds like the tracks are way, way too loose. And I have to wonder if they are made or adjusted properly to your application. Running the tracks so loose that it could freewheel down the trailer ramp indicates that it clearly is unsafe to operate--you could easily lose control. I had a similar situation wth my steel tracks and it nearly cost me life. And not only is it unsafe but impractical that you cannot get all the power to the ground without slippage. Just wait until they load up with mud and you will not be going anywhere under load. Well, excpet maybe back to the dealer. LOL! If you want steel tracks consider going to TracksPlus.com which is the manufacturer of a lightweight OTT track made of speciall treated steel. I have had two set of them and they are great.

 

[mllud]

Couple things--McLaren told me a few years ago that the rubber tracks suck 30% of the HP just to turn them--not good. Secondly, it sounds like the tracks are way, way too loose. And I have to wonder if they are made or adjusted properly to your application. Running the tracks so loose that it could freewheel down the trailer ramp indicates that it clearly is unsafe to operate--you could easily lose control. I had a similar situation wth my steel tracks and it nearly cost me life. And not only is it unsafe but impractical that you cannot get all the power to the ground without slippage. Just wait until they load up with mud and you will not be going anywhere under load. Well, excpet maybe back to the dealer. LOL! If you want steel tracks consider going to TracksPlus.com which is the manufacturer of a lightweight OTT track made of speciall treated steel. I have had two set of them and they are great.

Your chain box is what drives your wheels. A shaft coming thru the side of the box from the drive motor.It has a double sprocket with a chain going to the front wheel and a chain going to the rear wheel The same on the other side to drive the other two wheels. Why did he unload going down the hill. Mike

 

[robmints]

Your chain box is what drives your wheels. A shaft coming thru the side of the box from the drive motor.It has a double sprocket with a chain going to the front wheel and a chain going to the rear wheel The same on the other side to drive the other two wheels. Why did he unload going down the hill. Mike

Hey guys. The guy did not offload downhill, he drove downhill. Thank you for the chain box description. I'm sure he was not imagining things, he is too level headed and familiar with the machines to be too far off base. I could not duplicate what happened to him when I got home, but I'm going to do some more test drives before I use it on a hill. I think he may have slid on a slick spot in my drive because it is not totally clean of snow and ice. I am going to change the fluids and grease it over the next couple of days. I checked the oil in the chain boxes when I got home and it was fine and looked and smelled fine too. I shot some grease in all the fittings I could find but I'm sure I'm missing some. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Hey guys. The guy did not offload downhill, he drove downhill. Thank you for the chain box description. I'm sure he was not imagining things, he is too level headed and familiar with the machines to be too far off base. I could not duplicate what happened to him when I got home, but I'm going to do some more test drives before I use it on a hill. I think he may have slid on a slick spot in my drive because it is not totally clean of snow and ice. I am going to change the fluids and grease it over the next couple of days. I checked the oil in the chain boxes when I got home and it was fine and looked and smelled fine too. I shot some grease in all the fittings I could find but I'm sure I'm missing some. Thanks again for all the help.

Congrats on the new toy! The tracks look plenty tight, so you are probaly right in that he started sliding, and those tread bars can make some disconcerting noise as they hit the ground. And they probably sound worse going backward while going forward AND freaking out too! LOL

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Hey guys. The guy did not offload downhill, he drove downhill. Thank you for the chain box description. I'm sure he was not imagining things, he is too level headed and familiar with the machines to be too far off base. I could not duplicate what happened to him when I got home, but I'm going to do some more test drives before I use it on a hill. I think he may have slid on a slick spot in my drive because it is not totally clean of snow and ice. I am going to change the fluids and grease it over the next couple of days. I checked the oil in the chain boxes when I got home and it was fine and looked and smelled fine too. I shot some grease in all the fittings I could find but I'm sure I'm missing some. Thanks again for all the help.

There are no real hidden zerks, except one on the top of the axel behind each tire, it is a pita to get but it service interval is either 500 or 1000 hours cant remember. There is one ate each pin on the boom and 1 on each locking wedge on the quick attach.
Have Fun, she looks great.
Ken

 

[robmints]

There are no real hidden zerks, except one on the top of the axel behind each tire, it is a pita to get but it service interval is either 500 or 1000 hours cant remember. There is one ate each pin on the boom and 1 on each locking wedge on the quick attach.
Have Fun, she looks great.
Ken

Just wanted to thank you guys again. I got some seat time this weekend and it really works well. The operator can use some practice but the machine worked well. I changed the engine oil and changed the water separator, oil filter, and hydraulic oil filter. I still need to do the inline filter. With the spacers on for the tracks it looks like I can get to grease fittings for the wheels with out too much trouble. It's nice that the machine is made for access to the stuff you need to get to. The only thing that looks iffy is a battery replacement. Anyway, Thanks everybody.