Mud

[Thom81]

Newbie here. I have used a skid steer for work a few times, but never a lot. I got a Kubota to help move downed trees and level the ground. The problem is, I can't do anything with it. It is constantly getting stuck in the clay mud. Even when I wait a week since the last rain it still gets stuck. I can dig it out and shove branches under the wheels, but it just gets stuck again soon after. I would greatly appreciate any help or advice y'all can give.

 

[mrbb]

OK< My 2 cents here, when you say you get stuck, are you getting stuck due to tires packing and then loosing traction, or are you sinking into the ground and getting hung up from dirt getting under machine and then lifting tires off ground enough to loose traction?

as there two different types of stuck
and each can be solved differently(or the same way maybe)


First if your getting stuck due to machine sinking and thus high centering things(lifting wheels up and not enough down force on them then for traction) then what you most likely need to do is, wait longer for the ground itself to dry and not be holding so much liquid, that its causing the weight of the machine to sink and lift its tires
its just gravity at work, and not way to beat it till its drier and harder ground

BUT|, there are ways to make a skid steer stay on top better and get it to work in and on softer ground,
the most common will be adding tracks,

and that is adding Over The Tire Tracks, this then makes the machine have less ground pressure and gives it more ability to float like on top of softer ground, it also then creates a larger foot print with more of the track in contact with the ground, so that gives it more traction
these tracks can be had in both metal and rubber versions, neither is very cheap, and both have pro's and con's
some machines need to have spacers added to allow for clearance of over the tire tracks,
adding tracks can also add more stress to the machine and its drive train, they will also, rob machine of some HP

metal tracks, IMO work the best in very soft and muddy terrain, , and I think tend to be the cheapest to add!
but they can be hard on the ground there used on, as in can damage pavement, concrete, and like surfaces that can end up costing to $$ to repair on a job site


rubber tracks, will for sure enable a machine to go more places than tires, as they again cause a much lower ground pressure, offer way more track contact with ground for more traction , and do way less damage to the ground there driven on
they typically cost more, wear faster(well pending surface used on) BUT they offer less traction in very sticky mud, as the lugs can fill up just like tires do, causing them to get smooth and slick(metal can also, but they stay clean longer IMO)

the biggest draw back might be to tracks, is, they will allow you to take a machine into places it would NOT go on tires alone, SO< in other words when you get stuck with tracks over tires, you might end up in a spot harder to rescue the machine , or need larger equipment to get them out as once them larger foot prints sink, they cause more suction than just tires alone(or again in MY experience)
SO< YES they 100% get you more traction and flotation, but when you get one stuck they can be harder top get out than tires? NOT all times, but IMO more than tires alone


NEXT as for getting stuck due to tires filling up with mud/dirt!

they sell tires of all shapes and sizes and thread designs and thread depth , the deeper the threads the longer it normally takes for them to pack up,
so if your current tires are worn down a lot, new tires might be an option here for you, and MUD designed tires at that

pending SIZE of tires on your machine,, you MIGHT be able to go to a larger wider tire, this MAY require the use of wheel spacers for them to fit and work,, every machine is different here so, there is no way for me to say THIS SIZE to get!

NEXT is, and this gets more into custom making, but for yrs, some folks have actually added DUEL wheels to machines for better mud work

its not super common, and takes maybe doing a bunch of online searching to find some pre made, or having them custom made for YOUR machine and spec's
but adding duel wheels to all 4 corners, can for sure get you more flotation and traction, just like tracks do!
and they will also have the same negative effects, of adding more stress to the drive train on your machine,
but it is an option, so I added it


NOW for maybe some cheaper optiions, for stuck typs of just the tires filling up with mud, and thus you loosing traction

is, adding come HD tire chains, typically most use these for snow/ice work
BUT they will also add a bunch of traction in mud too
BUT to be honest if your mud has NO bottom and your sinking in and getting high centered, chains ain't going to help much if at all

as chains, need something to BITE into to help give traction,
if the mud is just soft and deep with no rocks or base to the bottom, the chains will not help much as there not getting anything to land on to push off of,
and just like tire threads, they will soon get covered over and be almost a smooth tire looking mess!

chains do off stress to drive train too, but as long as on soft ground, its the least of things , but they will also damage certain terrain, from grass, pavement to concrete and so on


SO< those are basically the ways to work in muddy condition
, and even these have limits
it all comes down to the type of ground/mud, and machine set up as to how far or well it will get by and again no 100% rule to go by!
cheapest option typically is waiting for drier conditions but its not always optional


lastly, if your running a machine in very muddy condition, you also need to be cleaning it way more often, and this includes cleaning out the belly pan on BOTH sides, oil coolers, radiators and so on, if not you could be shorting the life span on your machine by a LOT, or risk a fire or other issues!
mud packs up and can be powerful stuff damaging things!
also should be greasing things more often too!


hope this helps

 

[reaperman]

What model is your machine? Soft ground is soft ground and the best remedy is time or follow what the above poster took a lot of time to explain. One thing that will help is try not to drive in the same spot, stagger your wheels and limit turning as much as possible.

 

[Thom81]

OK< My 2 cents here, when you say you get stuck, are you getting stuck due to tires packing and then loosing traction, or are you sinking into the ground and getting hung up from dirt getting under machine and then lifting tires off ground enough to loose traction?

as there two different types of stuck
and each can be solved differently(or the same way maybe)


First if your getting stuck due to machine sinking and thus high centering things(lifting wheels up and not enough down force on them then for traction) then what you most likely need to do is, wait longer for the ground itself to dry and not be holding so much liquid, that its causing the weight of the machine to sink and lift its tires
its just gravity at work, and not way to beat it till its drier and harder ground

BUT|, there are ways to make a skid steer stay on top better and get it to work in and on softer ground,
the most common will be adding tracks,

and that is adding Over The Tire Tracks, this then makes the machine have less ground pressure and gives it more ability to float like on top of softer ground, it also then creates a larger foot print with more of the track in contact with the ground, so that gives it more traction
these tracks can be had in both metal and rubber versions, neither is very cheap, and both have pro's and con's
some machines need to have spacers added to allow for clearance of over the tire tracks,
adding tracks can also add more stress to the machine and its drive train, they will also, rob machine of some HP

metal tracks, IMO work the best in very soft and muddy terrain, , and I think tend to be the cheapest to add!
but they can be hard on the ground there used on, as in can damage pavement, concrete, and like surfaces that can end up costing to $$ to repair on a job site


rubber tracks, will for sure enable a machine to go more places than tires, as they again cause a much lower ground pressure, offer way more track contact with ground for more traction , and do way less damage to the ground there driven on
they typically cost more, wear faster(well pending surface used on) BUT they offer less traction in very sticky mud, as the lugs can fill up just like tires do, causing them to get smooth and slick(metal can also, but they stay clean longer IMO)

the biggest draw back might be to tracks, is, they will allow you to take a machine into places it would NOT go on tires alone, SO< in other words when you get stuck with tracks over tires, you might end up in a spot harder to rescue the machine , or need larger equipment to get them out as once them larger foot prints sink, they cause more suction than just tires alone(or again in MY experience)
SO< YES they 100% get you more traction and flotation, but when you get one stuck they can be harder top get out than tires? NOT all times, but IMO more than tires alone


NEXT as for getting stuck due to tires filling up with mud/dirt!

they sell tires of all shapes and sizes and thread designs and thread depth , the deeper the threads the longer it normally takes for them to pack up,
so if your current tires are worn down a lot, new tires might be an option here for you, and MUD designed tires at that

pending SIZE of tires on your machine,, you MIGHT be able to go to a larger wider tire, this MAY require the use of wheel spacers for them to fit and work,, every machine is different here so, there is no way for me to say THIS SIZE to get!

NEXT is, and this gets more into custom making, but for yrs, some folks have actually added DUEL wheels to machines for better mud work

its not super common, and takes maybe doing a bunch of online searching to find some pre made, or having them custom made for YOUR machine and spec's
but adding duel wheels to all 4 corners, can for sure get you more flotation and traction, just like tracks do!
and they will also have the same negative effects, of adding more stress to the drive train on your machine,
but it is an option, so I added it


NOW for maybe some cheaper optiions, for stuck typs of just the tires filling up with mud, and thus you loosing traction

is, adding come HD tire chains, typically most use these for snow/ice work
BUT they will also add a bunch of traction in mud too
BUT to be honest if your mud has NO bottom and your sinking in and getting high centered, chains ain't going to help much if at all

as chains, need something to BITE into to help give traction,
if the mud is just soft and deep with no rocks or base to the bottom, the chains will not help much as there not getting anything to land on to push off of,
and just like tire threads, they will soon get covered over and be almost a smooth tire looking mess!

chains do off stress to drive train too, but as long as on soft ground, its the least of things , but they will also damage certain terrain, from grass, pavement to concrete and so on


SO< those are basically the ways to work in muddy condition
, and even these have limits
it all comes down to the type of ground/mud, and machine set up as to how far or well it will get by and again no 100% rule to go by!
cheapest option typically is waiting for drier conditions but its not always optional


lastly, if your running a machine in very muddy condition, you also need to be cleaning it way more often, and this includes cleaning out the belly pan on BOTH sides, oil coolers, radiators and so on, if not you could be shorting the life span on your machine by a LOT, or risk a fire or other issues!
mud packs up and can be powerful stuff damaging things!
also should be greasing things more often too!


hope this helps

Not sure why this hasn't been posting; hopefully third time's a charm.

VERY helpful info!

I'm definitely filling the treads/free spinning the tires more than sinking the whole machine.

Would you recommend treads that go over the tires, or bigger tires with deeper tread?

Thanks very much.

 

[mrbb]

Not sure why this hasn't been posting; hopefully third time's a charm.

VERY helpful info!

I'm definitely filling the treads/free spinning the tires more than sinking the whole machine.

Would you recommend treads that go over the tires, or bigger tires with deeper tread?

Thanks very much.

 

[mrbb]

OK the type of mud you have has to be considered, CLAY is a nasty mud, it fills in and covers almost anything
IMO< I think over the tire metal tracks will be your best bet here
as even if you go new tires with deeper thread
(and no clue how deep your current tire threads are now, but GOOD mud tires for skid steers are almost 1and 1/2 deep in there threads
But like all things they wear down, and loose traction as they do(same goes for when ANY tire starts to loose the sharpness on the edge of lugs, as soon as they start to go round, they are loosing traction, its why off road racers replace tires so often, and or cut new edges)

Any how

tires will keep wearing down on you, and I think in very sticky slick clay, the threads will fill no matter how deep, as skid steers do NOT have enough tire speed to allow them to self clean like a ATV or truck used in the mud, that can use high RPMS/tire speed < to spin tires into flinging mud out of threads

metal tracks can also fill in, but as they go around the tires, they do some what self clean some
and the metal doesn't wear as fast as rubber (when used in soft ground that is)
so, typically they offer the MOST traction to all other things and there cheaper than rubber tracks
they can many times be found used as well, saving you $$$

IF your tires now are rather bald, low thread , you can I guess TRY adding chains,as they will be your cheapest option I think,
Just make sure there is clearance for them!

they sell chains in several different types, if you do an online search for skid steer chains, , find a decent OEM make, and odds are they will recommend what style of chain they feel works best in mud
most of my experiences with chains is in snow and ice, , basic chains will work in mud
but I know they make better designs made for mud or just more aggressive style chains in general
would be what I think you'd be best with!

IF by chance chains do NOT help you, there rather fast on /off, and again cheapest option, and odds are you can always sell them, and recoup some of there costs, due to skid steer tires tend to be the same size for dozens of makes and models, so, there is always some market for them, all the more so as winter gets closer or is here!

if you just want to bite the bullet and buy over the tire tracks, again, this will most likely be what gives you the best chance of working in wet ground you have!

just make sure you get correct tracks for your specific machine, and know if you need spacers with them or not, GOOD track makers know this stuff and most sell everything you need to install

ONCE you have them on the machine, know, they can add stress to all your drive train, and adjust you level of abuse to save yourself repairs, go easier than you normally do , is what I mean, all the more so when on HARD ground
is very soft ground, odds are low of any damage

but say your in soft ground going full speed spinning tracks and barely moving and you suddenly hit TRACTION< thats when damage can happen, thats what you want to try to not have happen
and same when on hard ground when you have LOTS of traction, thats when you want to go easier,a s that traction adds stress to drive train more than the traction the tires could ever have!
so you have to adjust some
a little more care and attention and you should be fine as long as current machine is in GOOD shape

If you know your machine now has problems or weak issues in drive train, anything you add with more traction is going to speed up wear and tear,
deeper thread tires being least, chains being second, and Over the tire tracks, being the most likely to do damage!

also, if you run chains on current tires, make sure you have clearance for them too
hope this helps