M 700, Can't remove front hubs

[Paul of Chester]

Hello, Several months ago I bought my first bobcat. An M700 jalopy. Like my backhoe and farm tractor, it is well used & abused when I got it. I was correcting the routing of some hydraulic lines when one thing led to another and I had the floor plate up and removing the rods that push & pull with the peddles. I discovered that "well" under the floor plate had 1&1/2 five gallon buckets of the nastiest hard-packed oiled up dirt in it. After cleaning out everything I started to wire-brush the area to prep for paint. Man was it rusty. huge pits in the metal. When I brushed one of the hubcaps oil started to spew out of a pinhole. Nothing is ever easy. You know when they say "the only thing holding that together is the rust" well... I need to replace both front hubs. I can't get enough information from the maintenance manual to help. I'm not sure if they are one piece or two? The part that bolts to the wall is clearly 1/2 inch thick. The rounded center is thin enough to get a hole poked in it. I welded together a wrench to see if it could unscrew (relieving where the two parts came together, there is no visible crack). All I did was bend the metal a little. I'm afraid to undo the four bolts because I'm not sure if they hold on the wheel or if the hub hides the real wheel bolts? Can anyone give me some advice on tearing this down? I would like to include photos like some of the other threads but I haven't figured out how to do that. Thanks for your help Paul

 

[Tazza]

For pictures, host them somewhere like photobucket. Open the image, right click/copy then right click/paste into the post on the forum.
I have never worked on a M700, so sadly i can't offer you much advise. With images, it may help.

 

[Paul of Chester]

Here are the photos: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-1.png and http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-2.png

 

[Paul of Chester]

Here are two more images. A close-up of the left side: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-3.jpg And a shot of the entire Bobcat. Not a bad older work horse. It's helping me renovate my historic home (in background): http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-4.jpg Thanks Tazza.

 

[Tazza]

Here are two more images. A close-up of the left side: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-3.jpg And a shot of the entire Bobcat. Not a bad older work horse. It's helping me renovate my historic home (in background): http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-4.jpg Thanks Tazza.

Can you just tap the caps off? they look like plain old caps used on car axles.

 

[Paul of Chester]

Can you just tap the caps off? they look like plain old caps used on car axles.

The end of the hubcaps have a octoganal shape to them so I put a wrench on it but the metal started to twist & crumple. If I tear up these caps without a solution ready I am screwed. I was thinking if I remove the four bolts and the larger ring comes off I could grind off the thin part & weld on some black-iron pipe with a screw cap but I don't know if the wheel bearing will fall out creating yet a larger issue. I fear I will need to pull the front wheels but as everyone knows with any machine this old If you start poping things apart you break more stuff. :-(

 

[6brnorma]

Can you just tap the caps off? they look like plain old caps used on car axles.

Paul, They look like the same exact set up used on the M-610. I've worked on lots of the 610 and never seen any in that nasty of shape (you lucky dog!) If they are the same.....the cap will be formed in a hex on one end and threaded into the bearing and race housing on the end bolted onto the body. Again...IF it is the same.....do not remove the bearing housing. I would wire brush the heck out of it, heat and Kroil to see if it can be removed. You say it is rusted to the point that it has pin holes so you may need to use a punch and collapse in the sides to remove it but I would not remove the housing unless absolutely necessary. I don't know if Bobcat still sells the caps (probably) but if you can't find them, let me know, I'll see how many extra I have laying around. Also......you're going to need to drain the hydro oil

 

[OldMachinist]

Paul, They look like the same exact set up used on the M-610. I've worked on lots of the 610 and never seen any in that nasty of shape (you lucky dog!) If they are the same.....the cap will be formed in a hex on one end and threaded into the bearing and race housing on the end bolted onto the body. Again...IF it is the same.....do not remove the bearing housing. I would wire brush the heck out of it, heat and Kroil to see if it can be removed. You say it is rusted to the point that it has pin holes so you may need to use a punch and collapse in the sides to remove it but I would not remove the housing unless absolutely necessary. I don't know if Bobcat still sells the caps (probably) but if you can't find them, let me know, I'll see how many extra I have laying around. Also......you're going to need to drain the hydro oil

 

[6brnorma]

Paul, They look like the same exact set up used on the M-610. I've worked on lots of the 610 and never seen any in that nasty of shape (you lucky dog!) If they are the same.....the cap will be formed in a hex on one end and threaded into the bearing and race housing on the end bolted onto the body. Again...IF it is the same.....do not remove the bearing housing. I would wire brush the heck out of it, heat and Kroil to see if it can be removed. You say it is rusted to the point that it has pin holes so you may need to use a punch and collapse in the sides to remove it but I would not remove the housing unless absolutely necessary. I don't know if Bobcat still sells the caps (probably) but if you can't find them, let me know, I'll see how many extra I have laying around. Also......you're going to need to drain the hydro oil

Yep......don't remove that housing unless you want to get into some major work! The housing is 'cast' and the odds are, you will break it trying to remove it (even clean ones are really stuck). Careful with the cap threads inside the housing.......you'll probably need to 'chase' them.

 

[6brnorma]

Yep......don't remove that housing unless you want to get into some major work! The housing is 'cast' and the odds are, you will break it trying to remove it (even clean ones are really stuck). Careful with the cap threads inside the housing.......you'll probably need to 'chase' them.

Thanks Machinist.......Yes, that is the same as a 610. Get the cap off and clean it up, find new caps and you'll be good to go. (Don't screw up those threads!!!!)

 

[Paul of Chester]

Thanks Machinist.......Yes, that is the same as a 610. Get the cap off and clean it up, find new caps and you'll be good to go. (Don't screw up those threads!!!!)

Thanks Everyone! I just got a PDF from the Richmond Bobcat dealer. It shows the breakdown. I can see now that the inner bearing rides inside the 1/2 inch thick round ring with the four nuts on it. I don't want to remove that. I have also found out the front hubs are still available but the back hubs are not (note to self, don't screw with the back hubs). It is odd to see this much rust damage when the rest of the machine is in good shape. Who knows how long this well was filled with wet dirt. These caps look like something pulled up from the ocean. I was wondering if hutting the caps with a screwdriver in such a way to push inward the threads reducing the diameter of the cap allaowing it to break loose?

 

[mrdeere1959]

Thanks Everyone! I just got a PDF from the Richmond Bobcat dealer. It shows the breakdown. I can see now that the inner bearing rides inside the 1/2 inch thick round ring with the four nuts on it. I don't want to remove that. I have also found out the front hubs are still available but the back hubs are not (note to self, don't screw with the back hubs). It is odd to see this much rust damage when the rest of the machine is in good shape. Who knows how long this well was filled with wet dirt. These caps look like something pulled up from the ocean. I was wondering if hutting the caps with a screwdriver in such a way to push inward the threads reducing the diameter of the cap allaowing it to break loose?

13.81 each and they are available part# 6503180

 

[Paul of Chester]

13.81 each and they are available part# 6503180

I FINALLY REMOVED the HUBS! Looking at the breakout drawing above & the fax from the local dealer, I got brave & decided I can't break a broken part. I put the largest monkey wrench on the caps & they both tore right at the threads rather than unscrew. I then (very carefully) took a screwdriver & mini hammer and tapped the remaining ring outward away from the threads. The first one snapped in half & I pealed it off. The second one eventually stretched enough to start spinning. Here are some photos: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-5.jpg http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-6.jpg and http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-7.jpg The thing that surprised me was the direction of the threads. I thought the threads were on the inside of the thick mounting ring "the hub", but they were actually on the outside on a lip. This could have been a bad misunderstanding if I started hacking into it. I would have destroyed the threads for sure. mrdeere1959, is that price you mentioned from the dealer or do you have another source? I hope this thread helps others. I appreciate everyone's input. This blog is awesome. Here is the parts list for the next guy: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700_hub_parts.png Thank you everyone.

 

[Paul of Chester]

I FINALLY REMOVED the HUBS! Looking at the breakout drawing above & the fax from the local dealer, I got brave & decided I can't break a broken part. I put the largest monkey wrench on the caps & they both tore right at the threads rather than unscrew. I then (very carefully) took a screwdriver & mini hammer and tapped the remaining ring outward away from the threads. The first one snapped in half & I pealed it off. The second one eventually stretched enough to start spinning. Here are some photos: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-5.jpg http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-6.jpg and http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-7.jpg The thing that surprised me was the direction of the threads. I thought the threads were on the inside of the thick mounting ring "the hub", but they were actually on the outside on a lip. This could have been a bad misunderstanding if I started hacking into it. I would have destroyed the threads for sure. mrdeere1959, is that price you mentioned from the dealer or do you have another source? I hope this thread helps others. I appreciate everyone's input. This blog is awesome. Here is the parts list for the next guy: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700_hub_parts.png Thank you everyone.

I have ordered the new hubcaps & O-rings. I will post a final photo when I have them installed.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

I have ordered the new hubcaps & O-rings. I will post a final photo when I have them installed.

i got no room to talk ive got a 1976 triumph bonneville chopper in the works 3 yrs now. but why put money into this thing has no antique value. cool project but outa pocket, pick a unit you can work 743 etc, if was me a 763f non boss. will do every thing you ask of it and than some, a project well worth youe while.. and twenty years from now will still move dirt,

 

[mrdeere1959]

I FINALLY REMOVED the HUBS! Looking at the breakout drawing above & the fax from the local dealer, I got brave & decided I can't break a broken part. I put the largest monkey wrench on the caps & they both tore right at the threads rather than unscrew. I then (very carefully) took a screwdriver & mini hammer and tapped the remaining ring outward away from the threads. The first one snapped in half & I pealed it off. The second one eventually stretched enough to start spinning. Here are some photos: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-5.jpg http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-6.jpg and http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-7.jpg The thing that surprised me was the direction of the threads. I thought the threads were on the inside of the thick mounting ring "the hub", but they were actually on the outside on a lip. This could have been a bad misunderstanding if I started hacking into it. I would have destroyed the threads for sure. mrdeere1959, is that price you mentioned from the dealer or do you have another source? I hope this thread helps others. I appreciate everyone's input. This blog is awesome. Here is the parts list for the next guy: http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700_hub_parts.png Thank you everyone.

that price is from dealer

 

[Paul of Chester]

that price is from dealer

Repairs are almost complete. Everything has been ground, wire brushed, or sandblasted. The pits in the metal are astounding. This photo http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-8.jpg

shows some the huge difference. Here is a shot of the new hub cap in place http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-9.jpg.

Everything has two coats of primer and two coats of Rustolium white. Here is another top shot showing the whole well area, http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-10.jpg.

Tomorrow I will put in the front step & floor board. I have new anti-slip peal-n-stick sandpaper to adhere. As I have said before I hope these photos help the next guy.

 

[Tazza]

Repairs are almost complete. Everything has been ground, wire brushed, or sandblasted. The pits in the metal are astounding. This photo http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-8.jpg

shows some the huge difference. Here is a shot of the new hub cap in place http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-9.jpg.

Everything has two coats of primer and two coats of Rustolium white. Here is another top shot showing the whole well area, http://www.circleoaks.com/images/M700-hub-10.jpg.

Tomorrow I will put in the front step & floor board. I have new anti-slip peal-n-stick sandpaper to adhere. As I have said before I hope these photos help the next guy.

Looks much better without the pools of oil

 

[6brnorma]

Looks much better without the pools of oil

Looks good.......nice job Paul.