LS185.b won't start

[Mike336]

I have a LS185.b and for about a year now the machine would turn over, but would not start. This has been an intermittent problem, but now it is a permanent problem. I have replaced the seat belt assembly, seat switch, seatbelt/seat switch harness, fuel diode. I use the auxiliary PTO a lot because I do run a 6 way Kwick way plow and a brush hog. I have a feeling it may have something to do with the auxiliary PTO, but is there a switch on the PTO valve that might be bad, that is involved with the safety interlock system? The machine will start in the service mode, but once switched over... will die. The machine is now at the New Holland dealer and hopefully they can find something. This machine is a rock solid machine and was very reliable. I am renting a 2014 John Deere 320C while the 180.b is in the shop and I feel like a real clutz running the JD joysticks.. If my NH dealer finds out the problem, I will post the answer on this forum.

 

[Mike10]

Yes, there is a switch on the aux control valve spool and if the spool is not in the neutral position the engine will crank but not start.

 

[Mike336]

Yes, there is a switch on the aux control valve spool and if the spool is not in the neutral position the engine will crank but not start.

Yes. I fiddled around with the lever , moving it left to right and making sure it was center / neutral, but it still didn't start...Kind of in a way I am glad the intermittent issue is gone and now nothing works. Like going to a dentist and your toothache goes away... Hopefully the NH tech will be able to find out the exact problem. Two weeks ago we had a 2' snowfall and the machine didn't start for almost 10 minutes... Jumping on the seat, seatbelt on and off..moving the aux pto lever left and right..I was freaking out and called that machine more names than you could imagine. I had to plow out a freight yard for tractor trailers that were sitting out in the roadway waiting for me to plow out the ramps...It was like a living nightmare..

 

[Mike336]

Yes. I fiddled around with the lever , moving it left to right and making sure it was center / neutral, but it still didn't start...Kind of in a way I am glad the intermittent issue is gone and now nothing works. Like going to a dentist and your toothache goes away... Hopefully the NH tech will be able to find out the exact problem. Two weeks ago we had a 2' snowfall and the machine didn't start for almost 10 minutes... Jumping on the seat, seatbelt on and off..moving the aux pto lever left and right..I was freaking out and called that machine more names than you could imagine. I had to plow out a freight yard for tractor trailers that were sitting out in the roadway waiting for me to plow out the ramps...It was like a living nightmare..

Jot got the machine back from the NH dealer. Tech replaced a TEMPERATURE SENDER Part # 84300765. Tec said machine was not sensing correct temperature to activate fuel pump. Machine fires right up and runs well. They also changed the Fuel filter also... Thanks for all your help...and hope this helps someone out in the future

 

[Tazza]

Jot got the machine back from the NH dealer. Tech replaced a TEMPERATURE SENDER Part # 84300765. Tec said machine was not sensing correct temperature to activate fuel pump. Machine fires right up and runs well. They also changed the Fuel filter also... Thanks for all your help...and hope this helps someone out in the future

That is something i never would have guessed. I have seen temperature senders not working causing the glow plugs to not come on, but not a fuel pump.
Glad it's up and running though.

 

[Mike10]

Jot got the machine back from the NH dealer. Tech replaced a TEMPERATURE SENDER Part # 84300765. Tec said machine was not sensing correct temperature to activate fuel pump. Machine fires right up and runs well. They also changed the Fuel filter also... Thanks for all your help...and hope this helps someone out in the future

Hopefully that will take care of your problem, but I do not think that sender has anything to do with the fuel pump, but I could be wrong. I just have never heard or read anything that would indicate that as a cause for not starting. That sender does work with the grid heater though. Reguardless, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Mike336]

Hopefully that will take care of your problem, but I do not think that sender has anything to do with the fuel pump, but I could be wrong. I just have never heard or read anything that would indicate that as a cause for not starting. That sender does work with the grid heater though. Reguardless, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

You guys might be right about the glow plugs rather the fuel pump and I may have misunderstood the tech..He was throwing a lot at me during the time of diagnosis..but did mention the fuel pump Just curious if these senders are a common problem in NH skid steers ? Again thanks for all your help

 

[Mike336]

You guys might be right about the glow plugs rather the fuel pump and I may have misunderstood the tech..He was throwing a lot at me during the time of diagnosis..but did mention the fuel pump Just curious if these senders are a common problem in NH skid steers ? Again thanks for all your help

Since the last post the machine is now again acting up and won't start at times again. Will start in service mode, but once switched over ..stops. Every diode, and relay have also been changed in the fuse box panel...since it came back from the dealer. Is there a nerve center that controls all the safety switches and relays to make sure they are all working for this machine ? Also I did replace the seatbelt in this machine about a year ago..What would be the best way to test that circuit ? Any help would be appreciated...

 

[Mike10]

Since the last post the machine is now again acting up and won't start at times again. Will start in service mode, but once switched over ..stops. Every diode, and relay have also been changed in the fuse box panel...since it came back from the dealer. Is there a nerve center that controls all the safety switches and relays to make sure they are all working for this machine ? Also I did replace the seatbelt in this machine about a year ago..What would be the best way to test that circuit ? Any help would be appreciated...

Probably the easiest place to start is at the fuel relay. Can't tell you which one it is but the wires going to it are. One terminal is a single white wire, the second terminal is a single orange wire. the third terminal is a double black wire and the fourth terminal is a double white wire. With the key on you should have power at both the single white wire and the orange wire.....The orange wire comes from the cab fuse panel 7.5A fuse, not the end one. The white wire comes from the diode which has a single white wire and a double white wire. The power goes to the diode from the service run switch. The service run switch gets the power from a orange wire. This power comes from the aux override switch on the control valve. Remove the panel between your feet. Looking in from the front of the loader the valve spool with the switch is the right one. Sitting in the seat it is the left one. that power comes from the key switch..........If you have power at the two terminals on the fuel relay you should have power at the fuel shut off solenoid unless the relay is bad..........It appears by the wiring diagrams that if the engine starts in the service mode the aux override switch is working since the circuit from the ing switch to the service run switch is the same in either run or service..........If you have a large electrical load or short you can damage or fry that diode. I ran into one where the cab blower relay had corroded connections and it caused the diode to blow. Another time some one shorted the wiper motor wire and blew the diode. Don't spark any wire to ground when checking electrical components.

 

[Mike336]

Probably the easiest place to start is at the fuel relay. Can't tell you which one it is but the wires going to it are. One terminal is a single white wire, the second terminal is a single orange wire. the third terminal is a double black wire and the fourth terminal is a double white wire. With the key on you should have power at both the single white wire and the orange wire.....The orange wire comes from the cab fuse panel 7.5A fuse, not the end one. The white wire comes from the diode which has a single white wire and a double white wire. The power goes to the diode from the service run switch. The service run switch gets the power from a orange wire. This power comes from the aux override switch on the control valve. Remove the panel between your feet. Looking in from the front of the loader the valve spool with the switch is the right one. Sitting in the seat it is the left one. that power comes from the key switch..........If you have power at the two terminals on the fuel relay you should have power at the fuel shut off solenoid unless the relay is bad..........It appears by the wiring diagrams that if the engine starts in the service mode the aux override switch is working since the circuit from the ing switch to the service run switch is the same in either run or service..........If you have a large electrical load or short you can damage or fry that diode. I ran into one where the cab blower relay had corroded connections and it caused the diode to blow. Another time some one shorted the wiper motor wire and blew the diode. Don't spark any wire to ground when checking electrical components.

Going to make a copy of your post and start on this 1st thing on Monday morning Strange thing I did notice recently , if I start the machine and it runs, I disengage the parking brake, move the machine a few feet and then shut off the machine without activating the parking brake. Still seated in the cab with my seatbelt on I try to re-start the machine to no avail. It would always start up this way until about a year ago when tis intermittent starting problem arose... I then have to get out of the cab and sit back in the seat , attach the seat belt and sometimes it will start and some times it won't. This is our workhorse and the machine I believe is built better than what New Holland offers now....otherwise I would consider another skid steer that is reliable. Not a good thing when the machine docent start and the truck driver is waiting to get his truck off loaded... Thanks for your help I will let you know what I find

 

[Mike10]

Going to make a copy of your post and start on this 1st thing on Monday morning Strange thing I did notice recently , if I start the machine and it runs, I disengage the parking brake, move the machine a few feet and then shut off the machine without activating the parking brake. Still seated in the cab with my seatbelt on I try to re-start the machine to no avail. It would always start up this way until about a year ago when tis intermittent starting problem arose... I then have to get out of the cab and sit back in the seat , attach the seat belt and sometimes it will start and some times it won't. This is our workhorse and the machine I believe is built better than what New Holland offers now....otherwise I would consider another skid steer that is reliable. Not a good thing when the machine docent start and the truck driver is waiting to get his truck off loaded... Thanks for your help I will let you know what I find

I want to make sure I understand the problem. I am under the impression that the engine will crank but not start. Am I correct? When it will not start if you change to service mode it will start? If you move the aux control handle to engage the boom hydraulics, will the engine die? If the engine cranks in the run position than the safety part of the system is working. The only part connected to the instrument panel is the wire form the panel to the diode which is activated by pressing the button on the instrument panel. Be sure you look at the actual terminals of the relay base for corrosion. After some research I found which relay is the fuel interlock relay. It is the second from the left. The left relay is the run relay and is larger, the next is the fuel relay. I would also check the wiring harness to the fuel shut off solenoid and the cold start thermostat to make sure the harness is not shorting.