LS180 Losing power gradually, now won't start

[jovol]

Hey all, I bought a used LS180 a few months ago and it's been running great. A few weeks ago I went to run it after it sitting for two weeks, and I could tell it was running differently. Usually it had very prompt throttle response. It started to lag on throttle response, or just not go to full RPM. Under loads, I could feel there wasn't as much power there and the rpm's would drop. Fast forward today, it starts up in a snap, idled fine for 15-20 seconds as I let it warm up, and then when I drove up my driveway, it started to die. I got to the top of the little 15ft hill, attached my bucket, then she died. I can't get it to start back up. I put 5 more gallons of diesel in there to make sure it wasn't that. What should I look at first? I've seen some posts talk about "cracking" an injector and turning it over to make sure it's primed, not sure what that entails? I haven't done any tinkering with this machine yet since the engine was running flawlessly. Thanks for your help, John

 

[SkidRoe]

Welcome to the Forum.
First place that I would start is the fuel filter - when did you last change it?
If that does not fix it, then I would start to look at the rest of the fuel system, and make sure that there are not blockages.
Hope this helps - SR

 

[jovol]

Welcome to the Forum.
First place that I would start is the fuel filter - when did you last change it?
If that does not fix it, then I would start to look at the rest of the fuel system, and make sure that there are not blockages.
Hope this helps - SR

I pulled off the fuel filter, it was pretty dirty with clay sediments coming out when I turned it over. Replaced it with a new one, but it still won't start. Got my neighbor over with his tractor to raise the boom out of the way. With the panels off, I see the wire to (I think) a heater on the bottom of the injection pump has corroded off, and there is a very obvious leak from (I'm guessing) a return line on the top of the pump. Here's a video showing the leak, and a photo showing the broken wire. Would either of these two things be causing the no start? I have a feeling that leak has been there the whole time. photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qu3kWn5dnKbVQpHB9
video:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EabGtzwLnXSrkWnWA
Thanks for your help, John

 

[Ivan]

I pulled off the fuel filter, it was pretty dirty with clay sediments coming out when I turned it over. Replaced it with a new one, but it still won't start. Got my neighbor over with his tractor to raise the boom out of the way. With the panels off, I see the wire to (I think) a heater on the bottom of the injection pump has corroded off, and there is a very obvious leak from (I'm guessing) a return line on the top of the pump. Here's a video showing the leak, and a photo showing the broken wire. Would either of these two things be causing the no start? I have a feeling that leak has been there the whole time. photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qu3kWn5dnKbVQpHB9
video:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EabGtzwLnXSrkWnWA
Thanks for your help, John

Take the fuel line off going to your fuel tank on the end by the filter and blow air thru it to see if it is plugged. If it is add biocide to your fuel for a while. The pickup tube in the tankmay be plugged

 

[SkidRoe]

I pulled off the fuel filter, it was pretty dirty with clay sediments coming out when I turned it over. Replaced it with a new one, but it still won't start. Got my neighbor over with his tractor to raise the boom out of the way. With the panels off, I see the wire to (I think) a heater on the bottom of the injection pump has corroded off, and there is a very obvious leak from (I'm guessing) a return line on the top of the pump. Here's a video showing the leak, and a photo showing the broken wire. Would either of these two things be causing the no start? I have a feeling that leak has been there the whole time. photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qu3kWn5dnKbVQpHB9
video:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EabGtzwLnXSrkWnWA
Thanks for your help, John

When the fuel pump comes on, you can see the line start to fill with fuel then begin to leak. That looks like the fuel supply line to the pump - my guess.
At any rate, fix the line and bleed the system. Don't try starting it until you have fuel delivery at all the injectors. Crack the injector lines and crank the engine to verify.
Not sure what the wire is, but the needs to be corrected as well.
Hope this helps - SR

 

[jovol]

When the fuel pump comes on, you can see the line start to fill with fuel then begin to leak. That looks like the fuel supply line to the pump - my guess.
At any rate, fix the line and bleed the system. Don't try starting it until you have fuel delivery at all the injectors. Crack the injector lines and crank the engine to verify.
Not sure what the wire is, but the needs to be corrected as well.
Hope this helps - SR

The video that shows the janky plastic tube leaking, that tube I believe is the return line from the injectors, as all three injectors T into that same line. I took out the plunger from the fuel shutoff solenoid to remove that from the equation. I opened the line connecting the lift pump to the injection pump and there is good flow there. I opened two of the lines at the injection pump that go to the two front-ward injectors, not seeing any flow out of that. The manual says these pumps are self venting, so there shouldn't be an airlock. Could it be a failed injection pump, or could it be plugged up?

 

[jovol]

The video that shows the janky plastic tube leaking, that tube I believe is the return line from the injectors, as all three injectors T into that same line. I took out the plunger from the fuel shutoff solenoid to remove that from the equation. I opened the line connecting the lift pump to the injection pump and there is good flow there. I opened two of the lines at the injection pump that go to the two front-ward injectors, not seeing any flow out of that. The manual says these pumps are self venting, so there shouldn't be an airlock. Could it be a failed injection pump, or could it be plugged up?

A tangential question: how do you put the ls180 in service mode? I have the service manual but not the owners manual, and I can't find anywhere in this literature that tells me how to do that, or what is enabled/disabled when in service mode.

 

[jovol]

When the fuel pump comes on, you can see the line start to fill with fuel then begin to leak. That looks like the fuel supply line to the pump - my guess.
At any rate, fix the line and bleed the system. Don't try starting it until you have fuel delivery at all the injectors. Crack the injector lines and crank the engine to verify.
Not sure what the wire is, but the needs to be corrected as well.
Hope this helps - SR

The 5A ignition fuse was blown. I replaced that, but I'm still not seeing fuel out of the lines at the injectors.

 

[jovol]

The 5A ignition fuse was blown. I replaced that, but I'm still not seeing fuel out of the lines at the injectors.

Well I've come to the conclusion the injection pump has gone bad. In the process of trying to get the engine and pump timed together, I've discovered there are no timing marks on this injection pump gear. I can't possibly imagine why this is the case, but it is. So I've gone about the "alternative" method for timing the engine/pump, and my cylinder TDC probe (aka a stick) snapped and is stuck in cylinder 1. Guess I'll be having to take the head off to clean it out. Is there any recommended maintenance I should do while I go through this process? Thanks, John

 

[JDWY]

Well I've come to the conclusion the injection pump has gone bad. In the process of trying to get the engine and pump timed together, I've discovered there are no timing marks on this injection pump gear. I can't possibly imagine why this is the case, but it is. So I've gone about the "alternative" method for timing the engine/pump, and my cylinder TDC probe (aka a stick) snapped and is stuck in cylinder 1. Guess I'll be having to take the head off to clean it out. Is there any recommended maintenance I should do while I go through this process? Thanks, John

"So I've gone about the "alternative" method for timing the engine/pump, and my cylinder TDC probe (aka a stick) snapped and is stuck in cylinder 1. " Actually FYI that's not a valid way to determine TDC. You have 2 TDC's on #1 cylinder, TDC exhaust stroke, and TDC firing stroke. Depending on the engine, the firing stroke can be determined by pulling the valve cover and checking the valve train or checking for compression through the injector hole in the head while slowly rotating the crankshaft.

 

[JDWY]

"So I've gone about the "alternative" method for timing the engine/pump, and my cylinder TDC probe (aka a stick) snapped and is stuck in cylinder 1. " Actually FYI that's not a valid way to determine TDC. You have 2 TDC's on #1 cylinder, TDC exhaust stroke, and TDC firing stroke. Depending on the engine, the firing stroke can be determined by pulling the valve cover and checking the valve train or checking for compression through the injector hole in the head while slowly rotating the crankshaft.

If you have to pull the head, standard procedure would be check cylinder walls for scoring, check valve guides for excessive wear, possibly a valve job depending on the hours which would include checking the head for cracks, and replacing valve stem seals.

 

[jovol]

"So I've gone about the "alternative" method for timing the engine/pump, and my cylinder TDC probe (aka a stick) snapped and is stuck in cylinder 1. " Actually FYI that's not a valid way to determine TDC. You have 2 TDC's on #1 cylinder, TDC exhaust stroke, and TDC firing stroke. Depending on the engine, the firing stroke can be determined by pulling the valve cover and checking the valve train or checking for compression through the injector hole in the head while slowly rotating the crankshaft.

I'm following the procedure in this pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbQyJ3XPqLONx2ighCkVUmyuIGC-5kR6/view?usp=sharing It sounds like you can use the TDC placement if you also check that the 3 pump mounting bolts are visible. If they are, it's on the compression, if they're not, it's on the exhaust. But yeah, I'm pulling the head so I can also check it via the valves.

 

[JDWY]

I'm following the procedure in this pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbQyJ3XPqLONx2ighCkVUmyuIGC-5kR6/view?usp=sharing It sounds like you can use the TDC placement if you also check that the 3 pump mounting bolts are visible. If they are, it's on the compression, if they're not, it's on the exhaust. But yeah, I'm pulling the head so I can also check it via the valves.

Jovol, thanks for posting this pdf shop manual, I definitely saved it on the computer. It appears to be more complete than my printed manual. Hope your head removal goes smoothly.

 

[jovol]

Jovol, thanks for posting this pdf shop manual, I definitely saved it on the computer. It appears to be more complete than my printed manual. Hope your head removal goes smoothly.

Head removal went smoothly. I have it timed now, but I can't figure out how to lock the injection pump. Step 30 in that PDF shows moving a locking tab on a bolt right next to the gear cover, but that doesn't exist on my pump :/

 

[jovol]

Head removal went smoothly. I have it timed now, but I can't figure out how to lock the injection pump. Step 30 in that PDF shows moving a locking tab on a bolt right next to the gear cover, but that doesn't exist on my pump :/

Nevermind, found the locking screw right where it should have been. It was just smaller than I expected, and partially covered in dirt. I got the injection pump locked and removed. I'll take some pictures of the process later... might help out a newbie like myself in the future.

 

[jovol]

Nevermind, found the locking screw right where it should have been. It was just smaller than I expected, and partially covered in dirt. I got the injection pump locked and removed. I'll take some pictures of the process later... might help out a newbie like myself in the future.

When it comes time to reassembly this bad boy, do I need new head, exhaust, and intake gaskets. What about the head bolts? If so I should get those on order now.

 

[JDWY]

When it comes time to reassembly this bad boy, do I need new head, exhaust, and intake gaskets. What about the head bolts? If so I should get those on order now.

I'm a retired heavy truck mechanic and unless your engine is vastly different, whenever we pulled a head, we ordered what's called a valve grind gasket set which includes all the necessary gaskets including valve stem seals. If that's available for your engine, that's the way to go. As far as head bolts, there's a few that are one time use, but the majority are not, I'd check with a NH dealership shop foreman.

 

[jovol]

I'm a retired heavy truck mechanic and unless your engine is vastly different, whenever we pulled a head, we ordered what's called a valve grind gasket set which includes all the necessary gaskets including valve stem seals. If that's available for your engine, that's the way to go. As far as head bolts, there's a few that are one time use, but the majority are not, I'd check with a NH dealership shop foreman.

Just got all my parts back from the shop. Rebuilt injection pump to the tune of $1350. I'm pretty livid after the shop said "I can't say for certain how much it will cost, but around $400-600". The shop also provided me with the complete head gasket set, which was nice, but I see I was billed $250 for it when a quick google search of the part number shows a source in Minnesota for $129. Feels like I got ripped off by this shop. I'm sure I will feel better when I put it back together tomorrow and it's running, but damn, over $2k dropped including rebuilt injectors.

 

[JDWY]

Just got all my parts back from the shop. Rebuilt injection pump to the tune of $1350. I'm pretty livid after the shop said "I can't say for certain how much it will cost, but around $400-600". The shop also provided me with the complete head gasket set, which was nice, but I see I was billed $250 for it when a quick google search of the part number shows a source in Minnesota for $129. Feels like I got ripped off by this shop. I'm sure I will feel better when I put it back together tomorrow and it's running, but damn, over $2k dropped including rebuilt injectors.

Wow, I think I'd question that. I've got a older non-electronic Ford V8 diesel with a mechanical (Stanadyne) injection pump and standard fee for a pump rebuild and calibration if I remove it, take it in to an injection shop is right at $600.