Locked up and seized up

[antfarmer2]

I would check the aux button first

And call the wife to put the trickle charger on it

 

[Jrock]

And call the wife to put the trickle charger on it

good points. I'll check the aux first thing. And it's now trickle charging.

 

[antfarmer2]

good points. I'll check the aux first thing. And it's now trickle charging.

Have my fingers crossed

 

[Fishfiles]

Have my fingers crossed

the aux power supply resets when you turn the ignition off and you have to re-energize it after a restart , so if it is on it is either a stuck stem or power is shorted to it all the time and it is in the on position , so I would doubt that is the case , the looped hose with quick couplers attached to the machine will tell you if aux is the problem -----another quick check to do is to remove the hydraulic filter and dump it's contents into a clean container and look for a large dose of metal particles , you could use this incident as a good reason to do the case drain filters also as that would be a good indication of what's going on inside the Sunstrand pump

 

[Jrock]

the aux power supply resets when you turn the ignition off and you have to re-energize it after a restart , so if it is on it is either a stuck stem or power is shorted to it all the time and it is in the on position , so I would doubt that is the case , the looped hose with quick couplers attached to the machine will tell you if aux is the problem -----another quick check to do is to remove the hydraulic filter and dump it's contents into a clean container and look for a large dose of metal particles , you could use this incident as a good reason to do the case drain filters also as that would be a good indication of what's going on inside the Sunstrand pump

This afternoon, it started looking like the starter was bad. I took it off, bench tested, and confirmed that the solenoid coil reads open. I couldn't get the motor to spin (definitely jumped correctly from the large screw to the small screw market with an S. Then, just to be sure, I tried jumping over to the other small screw, still nothing. Totally dead.) So I'm ordering a starter and/or solenoid. However, I really feel like this may be an unfortunate byproduct of the main problem so I also went ahead and removed the fly wheel cover and tried to turn the flywheel. Wouldn't move. I've never tried to turn a Kubota diesel engine before but I have to believe I should have been able to move it with a 24" long bar..? Now I'm worried that I may have water in the engine. If I have can get a new starter in hand and put it on this weekend, would water have time to damage the cylinders or cylinder walls in just a few days? (I know I'm jumping to a possible unnecessary conclusion but I don't want to risk causing more damage.) The reason I wonder if the starter is a byproduct is because I kept trying to start so many times and I really believe it clicked at first and it didn't click yesterday. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[antfarmer2]

This afternoon, it started looking like the starter was bad. I took it off, bench tested, and confirmed that the solenoid coil reads open. I couldn't get the motor to spin (definitely jumped correctly from the large screw to the small screw market with an S. Then, just to be sure, I tried jumping over to the other small screw, still nothing. Totally dead.) So I'm ordering a starter and/or solenoid. However, I really feel like this may be an unfortunate byproduct of the main problem so I also went ahead and removed the fly wheel cover and tried to turn the flywheel. Wouldn't move. I've never tried to turn a Kubota diesel engine before but I have to believe I should have been able to move it with a 24" long bar..? Now I'm worried that I may have water in the engine. If I have can get a new starter in hand and put it on this weekend, would water have time to damage the cylinders or cylinder walls in just a few days? (I know I'm jumping to a possible unnecessary conclusion but I don't want to risk causing more damage.) The reason I wonder if the starter is a byproduct is because I kept trying to start so many times and I really believe it clicked at first and it didn't click yesterday. Thanks again for all the help!

I would pull the injectors and turn the engine if water comes out work it out the best you can then drain the oil then put some oil in the cylinders any better ideas out there? Did you take the belt off first to see if the hydro is locked up?

 

[Jrock]

I would pull the injectors and turn the engine if water comes out work it out the best you can then drain the oil then put some oil in the cylinders any better ideas out there? Did you take the belt off first to see if the hydro is locked up?

after I determined that the starter was bad and tried to turn the engine, I figured the problem has to be with either or both of those issues. I didn't know how to check the hydraulics without turning the engine. How would I do that?

 

[antfarmer2]

after I determined that the starter was bad and tried to turn the engine, I figured the problem has to be with either or both of those issues. I didn't know how to check the hydraulics without turning the engine. How would I do that?

Let's start with taking of the belt from the engine to the hydro pump and see if you can turn the engine over by hand

 

[jerry]

Let's start with taking of the belt from the engine to the hydro pump and see if you can turn the engine over by hand

It would be too much of a coincidence for the engine to be locked after reading the original post.
If you take the belt off that will tell you a lot when you try to roll the engine over by hand. Then put the new/rebuilt starter on and try it. You said he strained the pumps by trying to move it but relief valves should have prevented any damage that way. Try to get more info from the guy as to just what he did. I'd guess the starter stuck engaged and he panicked and pushed every button in sight till the whole thing stopped.

 

[antfarmer2]

It would be too much of a coincidence for the engine to be locked after reading the original post.
If you take the belt off that will tell you a lot when you try to roll the engine over by hand. Then put the new/rebuilt starter on and try it. You said he strained the pumps by trying to move it but relief valves should have prevented any damage that way. Try to get more info from the guy as to just what he did. I'd guess the starter stuck engaged and he panicked and pushed every button in sight till the whole thing stopped.

That' what I am thinking but don't now how to relive the pressure other than though the aux couplers if the pin is stuck on do you know witch one?

 

[antfarmer2]

That' what I am thinking but don't now how to relive the pressure other than though the aux couplers if the pin is stuck on do you know witch one?

Or how to release the brake if it is stuck still learning to

 

[Fishfiles]

Or how to release the brake if it is stuck still learning to

I doubt very seriously that a hydraulic fluid lock is your problem , maybe a hydraulic failure ----------- if water was in the cylinder I would remove the glow plugs instead of the injectors ----------I think if the pump was locked up you would have still gotten a little bit of movement from the fly wheel with the bar

 

[Jrock]

Or how to release the brake if it is stuck still learning to

Interesting update: I got called out of town for a few days and just got back this morning and found my new (UPS delivered) starter and solenoid waiting on my door step. I just put the starter on the machine and, believe it or not, the engine turned over! I could tell by how easily and fast it turned that the engine wasn't frozen up. (What a relief!) BUT, it didn't start at first. as I turned the engine over, after about 4 seconds of spinning the starter, the stick started shaking. This would indicate to me that perhaps something is stuck, as I first expected. As I tried a couple of additional (shorter attempts) to turn the engine over, I kept giggling the sticks and messing with the foot controls. This seemed to release whatever, if anything, was stuck or jammed up because the engine turned over freely and the shaking of stick controls stopped! But by now, with 18 degree temperature outside, the battery ran down just as it seemed to be about to run. At this point, I'm almost positive that I'll be able to start it up later this afternoon, after I charge the battery back up. I'll re-post tonight. So, I don't know if anyone has any suggestions or advice for me now or not. I just know I'm not going to let any more dummies learn to run a skid steer on my machine again. I have a feeling I just need to change my fluid, filter, etc and go from there. Opinions? Thank you again!

 

[Fishfiles]

Interesting update: I got called out of town for a few days and just got back this morning and found my new (UPS delivered) starter and solenoid waiting on my door step. I just put the starter on the machine and, believe it or not, the engine turned over! I could tell by how easily and fast it turned that the engine wasn't frozen up. (What a relief!) BUT, it didn't start at first. as I turned the engine over, after about 4 seconds of spinning the starter, the stick started shaking. This would indicate to me that perhaps something is stuck, as I first expected. As I tried a couple of additional (shorter attempts) to turn the engine over, I kept giggling the sticks and messing with the foot controls. This seemed to release whatever, if anything, was stuck or jammed up because the engine turned over freely and the shaking of stick controls stopped! But by now, with 18 degree temperature outside, the battery ran down just as it seemed to be about to run. At this point, I'm almost positive that I'll be able to start it up later this afternoon, after I charge the battery back up. I'll re-post tonight. So, I don't know if anyone has any suggestions or advice for me now or not. I just know I'm not going to let any more dummies learn to run a skid steer on my machine again. I have a feeling I just need to change my fluid, filter, etc and go from there. Opinions? Thank you again!

...sounds like what your problem is now is that the pintle levers are not in neutral and the engine is trying to start against the hydraulics , the levers are on topthe Sunstrand pump , the flat bats hook to them , the bolt that goes thru the pintle and holds it to the shaft is most probably loose on the arm on the left if you were sitting in the seat , if these are out of adjustment the machine will go wild when trying to start , but being your fighting the cold on start up it maybe not be as noticeable