L455 "RollBack" angle

[GLWelder]

This is a continuation of the discussion in my other thread: I looked closely at the bucket and cylinder and see no reason the bucket shouldn't rollback towards the cab. There is nothing limiting the travel mechanically and the cylinder arm has about 2" expossed which would be enough. My question is does this sound like a adjustment issue? I have looked in my manuals can't find anything that addresses rollback/dump angles. Thanks, George

 

[Tazza]

I doubt there is an adjustment for this as that length is set inside the cylinder. If you really wanted to adjust it, not that you should you would have to pull the cylinder apart and have the stick machined down. The other way is to cut the end off and weld it back on after shortening the stick, but you need to keep things straight and ensure its a solid weld! This isn't a job for anyone that that is even slightly un-sure about their welding abilities as it can be dangerous if it was to snap off.
There may be a reason its like that, but it could also be that the previous owner had it re-built and it wasn't done rite.
The best way is if you can find someone else with the same machine and see how much the stick hangs out when fully retracted.

 

[mllud]

George With mine hinged all the way back the quick tach makes contact with the boom. There ar two diamond shaped steel pads where it makes contact. There is no adjustment on my lx865.
Thats probably not much help but I would think yours should do the same. Could be a difference in design between the old and the new. Like Tazza says if you shorten the Cyl. weld solid. Mike

 

[mllud]

George With mine hinged all the way back the quick tach makes contact with the boom. There ar two diamond shaped steel pads where it makes contact. There is no adjustment on my lx865.
Thats probably not much help but I would think yours should do the same. Could be a difference in design between the old and the new. Like Tazza says if you shorten the Cyl. weld solid. Mike

On thing to remember is whatever you end up doing. The Cylinder should have stops that keeps it from bottoming out the cyl's and taking the force of pushing and banging. I may be wrong. It may not be necessary. It just seems right to me. Mike

 

[GLWelder]

On thing to remember is whatever you end up doing. The Cylinder should have stops that keeps it from bottoming out the cyl's and taking the force of pushing and banging. I may be wrong. It may not be necessary. It just seems right to me. Mike

Hey thanks for the feedback Mike and Tazza. This is abit of a mystery, that cylinder and Q/A look stock, but obviously something is not correct. I will look around for another NH of that vintage and see what the bucket and cylinder look like. I may be able to shorten the bracket that attaches the cyl to the bucket by a couple of inches. I wouldn't be welding the cyl piston just the bracket. I hope to convert the Q/A and solve the rollback problem this winter. (As well as fix a hydrolic leak and getting the diesel to start easier). I hope to take a couple of pictures and post them, maybe that will shed more light on the problem. George

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

Hey thanks for the feedback Mike and Tazza. This is abit of a mystery, that cylinder and Q/A look stock, but obviously something is not correct. I will look around for another NH of that vintage and see what the bucket and cylinder look like. I may be able to shorten the bracket that attaches the cyl to the bucket by a couple of inches. I wouldn't be welding the cyl piston just the bracket. I hope to convert the Q/A and solve the rollback problem this winter. (As well as fix a hydrolic leak and getting the diesel to start easier). I hope to take a couple of pictures and post them, maybe that will shed more light on the problem. George

As far as stops go, I don't recall any of my New Hollands having stops. Internally, inside the cylinders as they're fully extended is the only stop I'm aware of. And when it comes to modifying the existing cylinders you're asking for trouble. BIG trouble. The section of rod exposed is there for a reason. It's called geometry. If you change the geometry which is currently there to limit rollback while limiting or controlling how fast the bucket slams back AND maximizing power in the pullback---and steadily and firmy hold the bucket there. If you shorten/change the geometry, the bucket may not even come fully back depending on the line-of-pull through the pivots---in fact it may even encounter an over-center condition---which means you'll not be able to dump the bucket . If it does pull back, it may not stay back and it'll act like a rubber band during movement or transporting. I know what I'm talking about---I had a supposed "hydraulic engineering shop" make a new rod for my backhoe loader bucket that was 3/4" too short. When I rolled it back it slammed so hard that it cracked the mounting points. Also, if you shorten the rods, you'll lose that much or more (depending on the geometry) when it comes to dumping the bucket. What you propose is possible but ONLY if you chnage the geometry by relocating the pivot points AND changing the complete cylinder/rod combos (I"ve seen it done on other machines). Is it practical? Nope. Is it cost effective? Is it likely to fail or cause damage to something? Maybe. Like I said before: just buy the factory-made attaching plate and be done with it. But make sure it will meet your expectations in that it will roll back like you want with newer buckets.

 

[mllud]

As far as stops go, I don't recall any of my New Hollands having stops. Internally, inside the cylinders as they're fully extended is the only stop I'm aware of. And when it comes to modifying the existing cylinders you're asking for trouble. BIG trouble. The section of rod exposed is there for a reason. It's called geometry. If you change the geometry which is currently there to limit rollback while limiting or controlling how fast the bucket slams back AND maximizing power in the pullback---and steadily and firmy hold the bucket there. If you shorten/change the geometry, the bucket may not even come fully back depending on the line-of-pull through the pivots---in fact it may even encounter an over-center condition---which means you'll not be able to dump the bucket . If it does pull back, it may not stay back and it'll act like a rubber band during movement or transporting. I know what I'm talking about---I had a supposed "hydraulic engineering shop" make a new rod for my backhoe loader bucket that was 3/4" too short. When I rolled it back it slammed so hard that it cracked the mounting points. Also, if you shorten the rods, you'll lose that much or more (depending on the geometry) when it comes to dumping the bucket. What you propose is possible but ONLY if you chnage the geometry by relocating the pivot points AND changing the complete cylinder/rod combos (I"ve seen it done on other machines). Is it practical? Nope. Is it cost effective? Is it likely to fail or cause damage to something? Maybe. Like I said before: just buy the factory-made attaching plate and be done with it. But make sure it will meet your expectations in that it will roll back like you want with newer buckets.

Earthwerks Unlimited
The Quick tach on my lx865 rolls back and makes contact with the boom. That is the stop. There is a diamond shaped steel piece there that it makes contact with. Its never been modified.
He is having trouble with the cylinders not bringing it back all the way. What he has now, he would be hammering against the cylinders bottomed out.when rolled back. I also wouldn't modify the cylinder. I do think he needs the quick tach to come back all the way to the boom[As a stop] ,without the cylinders being bottomed out.
He doesnt need to modify cylinders. Your right. He doest have enough roll back to get the bucket tilted past level.
As long as he doesn't change the bottom pivot point ,adjusting the roll back to the boom wont change load distribution as long as he still has the roll forward of 90 degrees as the book says.
He is going to find another new holland to see what his problem is. Mike

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Earthwerks Unlimited
The Quick tach on my lx865 rolls back and makes contact with the boom. That is the stop. There is a diamond shaped steel piece there that it makes contact with. Its never been modified.
He is having trouble with the cylinders not bringing it back all the way. What he has now, he would be hammering against the cylinders bottomed out.when rolled back. I also wouldn't modify the cylinder. I do think he needs the quick tach to come back all the way to the boom[As a stop] ,without the cylinders being bottomed out.
He doesnt need to modify cylinders. Your right. He doest have enough roll back to get the bucket tilted past level.
As long as he doesn't change the bottom pivot point ,adjusting the roll back to the boom wont change load distribution as long as he still has the roll forward of 90 degrees as the book says.
He is going to find another new holland to see what his problem is. Mike

The Qa on my ls 160 also contacts the boom when the tilt cylinders are fully retracted.. It has the diamond shaped wear plate like Mikes on the boom. I'd start by compareing the rollback angle with the bucket down and the dump angle with the bucket up and see where you should go from there by comparing those agles with published specs
I believe dump angle should be around 45 to50 degees and rollback around 23 to 25
Ken

 

[Earthwerks Unlimited]

The Qa on my ls 160 also contacts the boom when the tilt cylinders are fully retracted.. It has the diamond shaped wear plate like Mikes on the boom. I'd start by compareing the rollback angle with the bucket down and the dump angle with the bucket up and see where you should go from there by comparing those agles with published specs
I believe dump angle should be around 45 to50 degees and rollback around 23 to 25
Ken

My bad. What I should have said is in the dump position there are no stops. And my bad again, the diamonds do stop the mounting plate. Gotta lay off the cough medicine LOL. And back to bed I go.

 

[mllud]

My bad. What I should have said is in the dump position there are no stops. And my bad again, the diamonds do stop the mounting plate. Gotta lay off the cough medicine LOL. And back to bed I go.

One thing that was brought to my attention that there isnt a stop in the dump direction. I dont bang my bucket forward much but it seems to me that the would have built a stop in.I always thought it was bad for a cylinder th go full stroke and hit. .Sometimes when I get some sticky mud I use the forward stop,{ which is the cylinder bottoming out } to shake the mud off .I guess the cylinders are built to take the impact.
Where GL Welder got into a mismatch is converting from the old style N/H quick tach to the newer universal type. There is no direct conversion sold by N/H. This thread is a continuation of another previous thread.
I asked a question the other day and left a couple of words out , so I made another post to correct it. Then I read the title of the post above my question and the title answered my dumb question. I was wishing I could crawl into the wire and grab the question. Or find a hole to crawl into. Humility.Mike