help on drive pump repair

[1953belair]

i got my seals for the pump,took it apart and when i was taking it apart the spring for the rotating group shot out and i think somebody has already had it apart....does andybody have a good digrahm for the rotating group so that i can put it back together..their is 3 small pins that i have no clue were they go unless they go in the middle of the rotating group which has six small holes.....this is for a 722 bobcat.

 

[flyerdan]

Send me an email (found in profile by <----clicking username) and I'll send you the hydrostatic section out of the service manual.
Or if you want the whole book, ask Old Machinist for a link to the site where it is and you can get it without email size restrictions requiring a dozen seperate emails.

 

[Tazza]

Send me an email (found in profile by <----clicking username) and I'll send you the hydrostatic section out of the service manual.
Or if you want the whole book, ask Old Machinist for a link to the site where it is and you can get it without email size restrictions requiring a dozen seperate emails.

The three pins go inside the spline area of the rotating group. When it comes time to put them in for assembily, use a dob of grease to hold them in place. The pins hold up a splined spacer with a rounded edge, you'll see what i mean.

 

[cnord]

If I am reading what you said correctly, you are going to have an incredibly hard time getting your rotating group back together. If you said the spring shot out, the only spring in a rotating group is the giant one on the center of the block. With a snap ring holding it in place. Is this correct? Also like Tazza said, the pins sit in the spline part of the block, and there is usually a retaining sleeve(strip of metal in a circular shape) that holds the pins in place. Then the guide sits on top of the pins, then you set the pistons into the ring and then set the ring and pistons into the block. But if the spring is out, you will need to press it down to put the snap ring in, and if you don't have the right tools it can be very dangerous. Flying objects are never safe.

 

[Tazza]

If I am reading what you said correctly, you are going to have an incredibly hard time getting your rotating group back together. If you said the spring shot out, the only spring in a rotating group is the giant one on the center of the block. With a snap ring holding it in place. Is this correct? Also like Tazza said, the pins sit in the spline part of the block, and there is usually a retaining sleeve(strip of metal in a circular shape) that holds the pins in place. Then the guide sits on top of the pins, then you set the pistons into the ring and then set the ring and pistons into the block. But if the spring is out, you will need to press it down to put the snap ring in, and if you don't have the right tools it can be very dangerous. Flying objects are never safe.

If the spring is i ndeed removed, you can safely squash it down to re-install it using a bolt, nut and washers. This way the spring can not be let loose and fly around to hurt you or someone else. Just ensure the washers are large enough to compress the spring. The bobcat manual actually shows this technique, i'm just puzzled as to why someone would need to remove the spring in the first place.... I have never done it myself.
As cnord said, not doing it right could cause cause injuries, so do be careful. Also the newer rotating groups had the steel retaining ring for the pins, but the older ones seemed to not have them. So don't go hunting too hard if yours doesn't have one, it may have never had one. They do make installation easier though, but the grease will get you by.
Good luck!

 

[1953belair]

If the spring is i ndeed removed, you can safely squash it down to re-install it using a bolt, nut and washers. This way the spring can not be let loose and fly around to hurt you or someone else. Just ensure the washers are large enough to compress the spring. The bobcat manual actually shows this technique, i'm just puzzled as to why someone would need to remove the spring in the first place.... I have never done it myself.
As cnord said, not doing it right could cause cause injuries, so do be careful. Also the newer rotating groups had the steel retaining ring for the pins, but the older ones seemed to not have them. So don't go hunting too hard if yours doesn't have one, it may have never had one. They do make installation easier though, but the grease will get you by.
Good luck!

yeah it is that big spring....i got the service manual for it printed out from old machinest,that helped alot,but is their suppost to be a washer on top of the spring? then the d ring.....i know sombody has already had it apart because the groove were the ring sets in is chiped off in a couple of places and im hoping that i can put it back together and it hold...i didnt get much time to work on it today but my dad has a press so i can compress that spring back down,i just hope that the ring has enough of a groove to hold it down

 

[1953belair]

If the spring is i ndeed removed, you can safely squash it down to re-install it using a bolt, nut and washers. This way the spring can not be let loose and fly around to hurt you or someone else. Just ensure the washers are large enough to compress the spring. The bobcat manual actually shows this technique, i'm just puzzled as to why someone would need to remove the spring in the first place.... I have never done it myself.
As cnord said, not doing it right could cause cause injuries, so do be careful. Also the newer rotating groups had the steel retaining ring for the pins, but the older ones seemed to not have them. So don't go hunting too hard if yours doesn't have one, it may have never had one. They do make installation easier though, but the grease will get you by.
Good luck!

oh and i didnt mean to take tha spring out....i didnt have anything to go by on taking it apart to get to the seal so i just taped on the shaft alil and then thats when the spring shot out and all that...i wish i would have had a manual like i do now,learn the hard way tho i guess

 

[Tazza]

oh and i didnt mean to take tha spring out....i didnt have anything to go by on taking it apart to get to the seal so i just taped on the shaft alil and then thats when the spring shot out and all that...i wish i would have had a manual like i do now,learn the hard way tho i guess

I don't believe there was a washer, just the retaining clip.... I have never had one of those rotating groups apart, but the ones i have, i don't remember there ever being a washer. The spring is there to apply pressure on the rotating group when it sits on the valve/wear plate.

 

[1953belair]

I don't believe there was a washer, just the retaining clip.... I have never had one of those rotating groups apart, but the ones i have, i don't remember there ever being a washer. The spring is there to apply pressure on the rotating group when it sits on the valve/wear plate.

ill have to look at it again when i get home but i dont think the clip is wide enough to hold down the spring with out something behind it,but i could be wrong

 

[1953belair]

ill have to look at it again when i get home but i dont think the clip is wide enough to hold down the spring with out something behind it,but i could be wrong

the clip that was in their is broke thats why the spring came out and its real small...is their supost to be a wider ring?

 

[OldMachinist]

the clip that was in their is broke thats why the spring came out and its real small...is their supost to be a wider ring?

Take a look at this Vickers repair manual for the TA15 pump. http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/xm2830s.pdf
It shows a washer under the snap ring and it says you can put it together using a 3/8" bolt, nut and washers.

 

[cnord]

Take a look at this Vickers repair manual for the TA15 pump. http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/xm2830s.pdf
It shows a washer under the snap ring and it says you can put it together using a 3/8" bolt, nut and washers.

How are your pistons and the rest of the group. If they are warn some you may just want to buy brand new group to put in. Sounds to me like there is damage were the snap ring holds the big spring in. That my be dangerous, even if you do get it back together, it could break mid operation and that could not only wreck your pump, but contamination to deal with in your machine. http://www.loaderpartssource.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=LPS6519302 Loader Parts Source has them for $550.05

 

[1953belair]

Take a look at this Vickers repair manual for the TA15 pump. http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/xm2830s.pdf
It shows a washer under the snap ring and it says you can put it together using a 3/8" bolt, nut and washers.

that was a good manual,i did find half of that washer that is supost to go under the snap ring...its not just a regular washer its got some patern cut out of it...i wonder if i could use a regular washer? and yeah i knw what your saying,it would be a good idea to buy a new one,and if i knew that would be the only thing wrong with it i proli would,im gona try and find a ring that will fit and see how it goes back together,it may not.....i bought the bobcat from my father in law for $600 and he got it from some other guy and suposingly all thats wrong with it was that shaft seal and lift cylinder leaking...i just dont wana buy alot of new stuff for it if everything else doesnt work...and i havent had anytime to work on it later since im working 7 day 12hours a day right now...maybe everything will work out though..yall have helped me out alot,especialy the service manuals

 

[Tazza]

that was a good manual,i did find half of that washer that is supost to go under the snap ring...its not just a regular washer its got some patern cut out of it...i wonder if i could use a regular washer? and yeah i knw what your saying,it would be a good idea to buy a new one,and if i knew that would be the only thing wrong with it i proli would,im gona try and find a ring that will fit and see how it goes back together,it may not.....i bought the bobcat from my father in law for $600 and he got it from some other guy and suposingly all thats wrong with it was that shaft seal and lift cylinder leaking...i just dont wana buy alot of new stuff for it if everything else doesnt work...and i havent had anytime to work on it later since im working 7 day 12hours a day right now...maybe everything will work out though..yall have helped me out alot,especialy the service manuals

The washer you are talking about, dies it have the internal part cut with what looks like a gear? and have three points on it that are shiny? this is the part where the three pins rest that you found.
Your best bet i think is to open the other end SLOWLY and look at what goes where. Keep all the parts seperate though. Take pictures, draw diagrams. The other end is the same, just a mirror image. You can flatten the wear plates while you are in there and check for any excessive play in the rotating group pistons and shoes.
I'm about to tear into a TA1919 pump. I can try and give as much detail as i can to help you work out what goes where and what to do. If you can let me know just what you need, i can try and get you the details with piccies. It won't be the same, but i believe it will be very close.

 

[1953belair]

The washer you are talking about, dies it have the internal part cut with what looks like a gear? and have three points on it that are shiny? this is the part where the three pins rest that you found.
Your best bet i think is to open the other end SLOWLY and look at what goes where. Keep all the parts seperate though. Take pictures, draw diagrams. The other end is the same, just a mirror image. You can flatten the wear plates while you are in there and check for any excessive play in the rotating group pistons and shoes.
I'm about to tear into a TA1919 pump. I can try and give as much detail as i can to help you work out what goes where and what to do. If you can let me know just what you need, i can try and get you the details with piccies. It won't be the same, but i believe it will be very close.

the washer im talking about goes right before snap ring and yes has 3 groves cut in it...i went to a few stores today and nobody has a snap ring that size but one store was closed and i think that will be the store that has it...so if i can get that and a washer..i think ill be good to go..i looked at the groove were the ring goes today and i believe it is still useably its only chiped in a couple of spots.

 

[Tazza]

the washer im talking about goes right before snap ring and yes has 3 groves cut in it...i went to a few stores today and nobody has a snap ring that size but one store was closed and i think that will be the store that has it...so if i can get that and a washer..i think ill be good to go..i looked at the groove were the ring goes today and i believe it is still useably its only chiped in a couple of spots.

Its a shame, i recently dumped two rotating groups that i'd bet had these bits in them still. I'll have a look when i get home though, see if they are still in the steel bin. At least something like that is easy to post.

 

[Tazza]

Its a shame, i recently dumped two rotating groups that i'd bet had these bits in them still. I'll have a look when i get home though, see if they are still in the steel bin. At least something like that is easy to post.

It seems it went with the last lot of steel, sorry. I held on to them for about 2 years thinking i may use them for something, no idea what, but then i figured they are just taking up space so they gotta go.
Hopefully you can find someone with an old one, have you asked loader parts source? its possible they have an old rotating group that is dead and they could grab the washer and clip? you never know....