Frozen 825

[ek]

I´ve had my 825 for years and removing snow with it is one of it´s major tasks. During the last couple of years the hydraulic oil had gone a little subprime due to condensated water, causing normal but tolerable problems; last summer I finally drained the old oil and filled her up with all-year hydraulic oil. This winter I once started her at 0F and could not get the bucket up more than just a little bit. After a while drive power reduced - right-hand power first - with an unfamiliar kind of a little rattling sound when moving the drive levers, resulting quite soon to a full stop. Today the outside temperature reached as much as 20F so I gave her another try. Still no go and there is no sound whatsoever from the hydraulic pump. There are two transmission lights in her low-tech control panel and the one nearest to the driver is lit. The h-oil looks great and oil level is ok. What next - except that snow is stacking up all over?

 

[siduramaxde]

did you change the hydraulic filter?

 

[Kermode]

did you change the hydraulic filter?

Ice in the hyd filter? I would change the filters and try it again. Check for any hyd pressure at any line. Cut the filters open and look for brass, steel or aluminum cuttings. My guess is that your pump has died. You should have noticed the pump whining and/or cavitating if it was worn out or starving for oil. Might have broken the shaft to the pump or stripped the coupler. I don't know how 825's drive their pumps.

 

[Tazza]

Ice in the hyd filter? I would change the filters and try it again. Check for any hyd pressure at any line. Cut the filters open and look for brass, steel or aluminum cuttings. My guess is that your pump has died. You should have noticed the pump whining and/or cavitating if it was worn out or starving for oil. Might have broken the shaft to the pump or stripped the coupler. I don't know how 825's drive their pumps.

All the above are good ideas.
If you knew the oil was getting a little water in it, why didn't you change it earlier? Water in the oil can cause serious pump and motor damage..... I really hope you caught it before major damage was done and its simply icing of the filter element.

 

[ek]

All the above are good ideas.
If you knew the oil was getting a little water in it, why didn't you change it earlier? Water in the oil can cause serious pump and motor damage..... I really hope you caught it before major damage was done and its simply icing of the filter element.

Thanks for all comments. Filter change was done when replacing h-oil. Pump whining (when driving) has been present all these years I´ve had her and there has been no change in intensity. I have grown to accept it more like a feature than a fault. Coupler bush has been replaced some years ago - in that case it was sudden death one sunny summer day without any extra sound effects but this time it was slow death as it demanded more and more lever pushing/pulling before total stop. The old h-oil was not very milky and there were problems only during the harshest winter conditions, when there is no snowing and therefore very little use for her. But no excuses - appropriate maintenance prevents many problems. Next I`ll check the hydraulic pressure. Thanks again!

 

[jeffco]

Thanks for all comments. Filter change was done when replacing h-oil. Pump whining (when driving) has been present all these years I´ve had her and there has been no change in intensity. I have grown to accept it more like a feature than a fault. Coupler bush has been replaced some years ago - in that case it was sudden death one sunny summer day without any extra sound effects but this time it was slow death as it demanded more and more lever pushing/pulling before total stop. The old h-oil was not very milky and there were problems only during the harshest winter conditions, when there is no snowing and therefore very little use for her. But no excuses - appropriate maintenance prevents many problems. Next I`ll check the hydraulic pressure. Thanks again!

When my frozen hydraulic system saga began it was much like yours, when it finally warmed up and thawed out I found 10 gallons of water, frozen of course in the sump. 10 of the 27 gallon capacity. I found the plate under the pedals was allowing water in at quite a rate because most of the bolts were broken. Make sure when you service it change all 3 filters, I know the one under the pedals is a bear and most times is not changed but its a 10 micron and doesn't hold much water. I generally park with a 2 x 10 under the rear tires and just loosen the drain for the sump and drain off any condensation but now its maybe a teaspoon instead of gallons of water. I used about 4 ounces of diesel fuel conditioner in the hydraulic oil just to help dry it out, that seemed to help. I replaced the sensors with gauges for charge pressures, the left is 18 psi hot or cold and the right is 200 psi hot or cold. These pressures are a bit flexible but need to be above the minimum or the system will be noisey. If you get enough water to freeze things up I think your cylinders will have water in them also so you might want to empty them as well. I use Tractor Supply Universal Hydraulic oil, about 28.00 for 5 gallons and think it works fine. After 1 year crystal clean. I change the filters every year and keep 27 gallons in the sump. Good luck Jeffco

 

[GhostOp]

The 825 has three hydraulic filters, not one, and it holds 27 Gallons of 10W30 weight oil, or hydraulic/hydrostatic fluid. Some of these machines had fiberglass lids under the seat, and these often cracked, letting in rain when the machines sat outside. There are also gaskets under this lid that can let water in. If you tilt up your cab, the first two filters are easy to see on the right hand side when facing forward. They are two different micron ratings. The third filter requires removing the foot pedals and the plate underneath (I'm not kidding, it's a really stupid design!) it's a lot of work to change a filter. From the manual, "Loss of fluid flow to the hyrostatic transmission pump (indicated by Trans light ON) will cause transmission damage in less than 60 seconds time." One light should be pressure activated, and the other light is fluid temperature. I'm guessing that you have low pressure to the pump due to the cold fluid, hopefully you didn't damage the pump. Good Luck! Jerry

 

[ek]

The 825 has three hydraulic filters, not one, and it holds 27 Gallons of 10W30 weight oil, or hydraulic/hydrostatic fluid. Some of these machines had fiberglass lids under the seat, and these often cracked, letting in rain when the machines sat outside. There are also gaskets under this lid that can let water in. If you tilt up your cab, the first two filters are easy to see on the right hand side when facing forward. They are two different micron ratings. The third filter requires removing the foot pedals and the plate underneath (I'm not kidding, it's a really stupid design!) it's a lot of work to change a filter. From the manual, "Loss of fluid flow to the hyrostatic transmission pump (indicated by Trans light ON) will cause transmission damage in less than 60 seconds time." One light should be pressure activated, and the other light is fluid temperature. I'm guessing that you have low pressure to the pump due to the cold fluid, hopefully you didn't damage the pump. Good Luck! Jerry

Thank you all for support in this topic! Last weekend outside temperature reached 32F and I put an electric fan heater to warm her belly. After three hours of warming up I started her: the filter light was lit very normally for a couple of seconds and "all systems go". Conclusion: the third filter under the pedals - which I had not replaced - must have been blocked with ice and melting the ice with external heat was the cure. I added some diesel anti-ice fluid to the hydraulic oil hoping it gives a little help me through this winter. Thanks again for everyone!

 

[GhostOp]

Great News! That third filter is a black mark on an otherwise good machine. The 825 has lots of power, good size, and no electronics. I've always been able to get parts for reasonable prices, and an average guy can work on it. Now we just need a little break from this blasted cold weather! Jerry