Flywheel Gearbox

[nobull1]

When I purchased my 763 The gearbox was low on oil and the fan was making a little noise at idle (probably backlash on gears). I had a hard time getting the plug out, and almost stripped it. After replacing the oil it seemed to be about 80% less noisy and acceptable. Just lately I have been getting the noise again and decided to check the oil. Well!!! should have changed that half stripped plug when I had it out, because now it is stripped and not coming out. Or I should say it won't be easy.
So the questions are:
1) Is there a easier way that people have used to get a stripped plug out.
2) Is it worth trying to get the leak fixed or should a person just replace the assembly(new assembly about $900.00) and be done with it. The gears seem to a have a little bit of slack, but not a lot, but who knows for sure the condition, until disassembled.
3) Anyone done this repair job, remove and replace or remove and repair? Bobcat says about 3-4 hours labour, depending.
4) How long might it work like it is now. Bobcat says they have seen them go between months and years making the noise. If you just set the idle up a little the noise pretty well disappears.
Suggestions welcome

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Brian
I have yet to change one.
For the plug, I'd take a 5/8" nut set it over top of the stripped out plug and mig weld it to the plug. You should be able to get a good enough weld to get it out. Not a job to practice up on, but if your used to the welder you should be fine.
As for what noisy for these drives, is there another one you can listen to?
Where is it leaking from? the seal? they are simple to change. Also you made sure the vent line is not blocked, therefore causing the seal to leak?
Worst case senario, b4 you spennd 900.00 let me check as place or two for you.
Ken

 

[nobull1]

Brian
I have yet to change one.
For the plug, I'd take a 5/8" nut set it over top of the stripped out plug and mig weld it to the plug. You should be able to get a good enough weld to get it out. Not a job to practice up on, but if your used to the welder you should be fine.
As for what noisy for these drives, is there another one you can listen to?
Where is it leaking from? the seal? they are simple to change. Also you made sure the vent line is not blocked, therefore causing the seal to leak?
Worst case senario, b4 you spennd 900.00 let me check as place or two for you.
Ken

Good idea about welding the nut on the plug. The treads of the plug protrude about 3/16 of a inch above the assembly which means that the right size of nut might go over the plug and leave enough to weld to. Actually the right size of nut should thread onto the protruding threads to make it a tighter fit to make a better weld. When it comes out it will be replaced with a four sided male end as opposed to a female hex head. I noticed the vent line but I will say I didn't look all the way to the end to see if it might be plugged. I will do that just to be sure it isn't. The leak appears to be from the end by the pulley, but only has dried grease/oil and doesn't "appear" fresh. You are correct it shouldn't be a hard job to change,but it probably has to come out to be replaced as the way the manual says to replace it is by drilling and using a screw slide hammer. Also the pulley would have to come off first and I don't think there would be enough room to remove the pulley then drill and use a slide hammer, but it would save a lot of time if I could. I will have to have another look at that possibility.
Worst case is replace the assembly, and I will let you know if I need to go that way. I don't want to do that now, as my garage doesn't have enough height to allow the cab to flip up, which means a trip to the dealer and pay them 3-4 hours(too unpredictable and cold to do that job outdoors IMO). That scenario is not the end of the world and you just have to do what you have to do.
Any other ideas just keep them coming.
Brian

 

[Fishfiles]

Brian
I have yet to change one.
For the plug, I'd take a 5/8" nut set it over top of the stripped out plug and mig weld it to the plug. You should be able to get a good enough weld to get it out. Not a job to practice up on, but if your used to the welder you should be fine.
As for what noisy for these drives, is there another one you can listen to?
Where is it leaking from? the seal? they are simple to change. Also you made sure the vent line is not blocked, therefore causing the seal to leak?
Worst case senario, b4 you spennd 900.00 let me check as place or two for you.
Ken

It's not too bad pulling the blower box out ,you can't get just the blower out with out the box , it can be hard getting the first couple of the 4 bolts that hold the box to the machine started again if you are by your self ,they have some installation washers on the bolts that hold it all together like the ones on brake drums from the factory the first time you do a brake job , try not to break or loose them , if you do get some more as they really help , the "depends" problem is how easy is the pulley and the fan going to come off , some times it's easy sometimes it's really bad ------------you can put some Lucas hub oil in it and you will buy time as the think creeping oil won't leak out as fast and will probally quiet it down for you , the seals are very easy to change once the fan and pulley are off ---------I have seen a guy's machine that had a bushing and grease fitting in the plug hole and he was pumping it with grease it sounded fine and said it was like that for a long time , he done it because it was leaking bad ------as soon as you hear the bearing failing stop running the machine as if you keep going you are going to cut the plastic housing and need to replace it , it's a 3 hour job on most machines if everything goes right ------good luck

 

[nobull1]

It's not too bad pulling the blower box out ,you can't get just the blower out with out the box , it can be hard getting the first couple of the 4 bolts that hold the box to the machine started again if you are by your self ,they have some installation washers on the bolts that hold it all together like the ones on brake drums from the factory the first time you do a brake job , try not to break or loose them , if you do get some more as they really help , the "depends" problem is how easy is the pulley and the fan going to come off , some times it's easy sometimes it's really bad ------------you can put some Lucas hub oil in it and you will buy time as the think creeping oil won't leak out as fast and will probally quiet it down for you , the seals are very easy to change once the fan and pulley are off ---------I have seen a guy's machine that had a bushing and grease fitting in the plug hole and he was pumping it with grease it sounded fine and said it was like that for a long time , he done it because it was leaking bad ------as soon as you hear the bearing failing stop running the machine as if you keep going you are going to cut the plastic housing and need to replace it , it's a 3 hour job on most machines if everything goes right ------good luck

Fishfiles
Thanks for the help and ideas. The grease suggestion sounds interesting as a solution. When I get that stupid plug out of the assembly, it would be real easy to replace the plug with one that I would drill right through, then tap and install a grease fitting. Just wondering if it would be a good idea for longevity? In theory it should work as the grease has certain amount of oil anyways and the gears really just have to be lubricated. I would think #1 would probably be the best especially around here where it gets well below freezing quite a bit for a couple months of the year. Wouldn't it be nice to just have to give it a couple of pumps of grease whenever you start to hear a noise. Do you have any more info that you can add about the grease idea? Maybe the type of grease or how long it has worked?

 

[Fishfiles]

Fishfiles
Thanks for the help and ideas. The grease suggestion sounds interesting as a solution. When I get that stupid plug out of the assembly, it would be real easy to replace the plug with one that I would drill right through, then tap and install a grease fitting. Just wondering if it would be a good idea for longevity? In theory it should work as the grease has certain amount of oil anyways and the gears really just have to be lubricated. I would think #1 would probably be the best especially around here where it gets well below freezing quite a bit for a couple months of the year. Wouldn't it be nice to just have to give it a couple of pumps of grease whenever you start to hear a noise. Do you have any more info that you can add about the grease idea? Maybe the type of grease or how long it has worked?

I think Ken's idea of welding something to it is the best easiest way once it is stripped out , I have broke a few allen sockets befor on that plug -------before I'd go grease I would go with some Lucas hub oil , very sticky creeping oil , it will stay in there a lot better than 90wt , the grease thing I have also done on planetaries of excavator travel motors when the seal is gone and seen them still going with grease ---------you said" all it does is lube the gears ", did you know there are 4 bearings in the blower housing assembly , 2 bearings in each half , the whole case don't hold but about 8 ozs of oil , they use to sell the bower box in two halves and you had to bolt them together before installing it , the last one I bought a few months back was only sold as 1 piece ----------as afar as whats the best grease , there are so many different types nowdays I am sure there are a few that would surfice , I have always been partial to moly , especially if it is on something that I own

 

[nobull1]

I think Ken's idea of welding something to it is the best easiest way once it is stripped out , I have broke a few allen sockets befor on that plug -------before I'd go grease I would go with some Lucas hub oil , very sticky creeping oil , it will stay in there a lot better than 90wt , the grease thing I have also done on planetaries of excavator travel motors when the seal is gone and seen them still going with grease ---------you said" all it does is lube the gears ", did you know there are 4 bearings in the blower housing assembly , 2 bearings in each half , the whole case don't hold but about 8 ozs of oil , they use to sell the bower box in two halves and you had to bolt them together before installing it , the last one I bought a few months back was only sold as 1 piece ----------as afar as whats the best grease , there are so many different types nowdays I am sure there are a few that would surfice , I have always been partial to moly , especially if it is on something that I own

I didn't realize there were four bearings inside the assembly. That was my concern though, the lack of lubrication for the bearings. I think I will start by getting the plug out and getting some thicker oil and see what happens. That is the easiest thing to do to start with.

Brian

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I didn't realize there were four bearings inside the assembly. That was my concern though, the lack of lubrication for the bearings. I think I will start by getting the plug out and getting some thicker oil and see what happens. That is the easiest thing to do to start with.

Brian

Brian
I did my 853 seal "in frame" just slide the pulley off the shaft and, drill a hole in the seal and pry it out. 763 might have less room though, smaller frame and all.
Get yourself a steel hydraulic plug that a socket fits, not a cast iron one, when you get it out, and don't put it in too tight, I swear someone crawls in there and retorqs these and oil filters.
If you use a 3/4" or so nut I would grind it down to 1/2" thick, so when your trying to get it welded to the old plug you don't have to reach too deep into the "hole" to be able to work the bead and get a good weld.
Never thought of grease, but I would use that last resort. Maybe it would last good, don't know. I would always be concerned about finishing the current project with that 'repair" in the back of my mind
Ken

 

[Fishfiles]

Brian
I did my 853 seal "in frame" just slide the pulley off the shaft and, drill a hole in the seal and pry it out. 763 might have less room though, smaller frame and all.
Get yourself a steel hydraulic plug that a socket fits, not a cast iron one, when you get it out, and don't put it in too tight, I swear someone crawls in there and retorqs these and oil filters.
If you use a 3/4" or so nut I would grind it down to 1/2" thick, so when your trying to get it welded to the old plug you don't have to reach too deep into the "hole" to be able to work the bead and get a good weld.
Never thought of grease, but I would use that last resort. Maybe it would last good, don't know. I would always be concerned about finishing the current project with that 'repair" in the back of my mind
Ken

Ya know , I am not sure if it was mentioned to you any where till Ken's post brought it mind that there are two seals in that blower box , and the horizonal seal is the one that seems to leak the most , and like said that one can be changed without removing the blower box on some models , if you polish the exposed section of the input shaft with some emery paper before trying to move the pulley over it to get it off it can make things alot easier -----on the grease in place of oil topic I have had good furtunes with noisey drive belt idler pulley on the side ways drive trains , the bearings I found are very lighty oiled and after time you can hear them rumbling and on the way out , it has two opposing cone bearings in it , to not have to disassemble I take a hyperdermic looking grease gun needle and stick it though the spaces in between the rollers of the bearings and pump it full of moly grease, have never seen one that was greased fail yet , those idlers are pretty high priced in the $400 range , they don't offer bearings for it but I have replaced the bearings , sometimes the pulley gets a groove cut into it from the belt and a spin on the lathe smooths that out nicely during a rebuild ------------------I had thought of in the past as how truck and trailer axle manufactures have some identical set ups using both grease or oil in their wheel bearings . works boths ways , always liked grease better on wheel bearings , oil is easier to visually see the conditon , level and to replentish the oil when low but when it starts to leak you need to do a seal job , the grease takes alot more to mak it leak

 

[nobull1]

Ya know , I am not sure if it was mentioned to you any where till Ken's post brought it mind that there are two seals in that blower box , and the horizonal seal is the one that seems to leak the most , and like said that one can be changed without removing the blower box on some models , if you polish the exposed section of the input shaft with some emery paper before trying to move the pulley over it to get it off it can make things alot easier -----on the grease in place of oil topic I have had good furtunes with noisey drive belt idler pulley on the side ways drive trains , the bearings I found are very lighty oiled and after time you can hear them rumbling and on the way out , it has two opposing cone bearings in it , to not have to disassemble I take a hyperdermic looking grease gun needle and stick it though the spaces in between the rollers of the bearings and pump it full of moly grease, have never seen one that was greased fail yet , those idlers are pretty high priced in the $400 range , they don't offer bearings for it but I have replaced the bearings , sometimes the pulley gets a groove cut into it from the belt and a spin on the lathe smooths that out nicely during a rebuild ------------------I had thought of in the past as how truck and trailer axle manufactures have some identical set ups using both grease or oil in their wheel bearings . works boths ways , always liked grease better on wheel bearings , oil is easier to visually see the conditon , level and to replentish the oil when low but when it starts to leak you need to do a seal job , the grease takes alot more to mak it leak

OK so here's the story

I went out to weld the nut to the threaded insert and made a new discovery. The horizontal seal was now sitting loose on the shaft by the pulley. I have no idea how or why that happened, but know it wasn't like that that the last time I looked at it. What I did notice was the remaining oil was now dropping down on the main drive belt and leaking down on top of the gas tank. This made a bad situation take a turn for the worst. So the first thing I tried was to remove the pulley to get the seal out and do a replacement. I cleaned the exposed shaft and loosed the two set screws. I used the gear assembly to place a pry bar on each side of to try and pry off the pulley. Well no way was that pulley going to move, even with two three foot bars for levers. After carefully thought I said I will try to get the seal back into the housing to see if it was a tight fit or not. The seal was a job to install using two flat ended bars, it was not loose at all once I finally got it installed.... don't know why it came loose. Now I am off to to the allen head bolt to try and weld a nut to. I used an appropriate nut and welded all around inside of the allen bolt right out to the end of the nut. I then put a socket on the nut and turned it very easily. A little bit of effort and the nut separated from the allen bolt. The weld just didn't want to take to the allen bolt for whatever reason. Now it was time to make another decision of what to do. I decided I would drill right through the allen bolt and try a easy out. I used a lot of grease on the drill bit to prevent pieces of metal from the drilling to enter the gear assembly. I tried a easy out and had no luck and was nervous about breaking the easy out off in the hole n( knowing how my day was going so far). So the drilled hole gave me a hole to add fluid to and I figured that was the route to go. I found some 90/140 oil and thought I would give that a try. I used the nozzle on the container and installed the oil up to the full level. I found a piece that I could use for a plug and installed it and went for a test drive. After about 1 hour of use I noticed it had leaked a fair amount of oil and was thinking this isn't going to work. Now I decided that I was going to try the grease in the gear assembly as a final solution. I took the plug out and pumped a fair amount of grease into the assembly than plugged the hole and went for a test drive. The first thing I noticed was how much quieter it was. After about a hour of use I checked for leaks and found it had leaked some(clear oil, not grease oil mix), but not as much as before. I cleaned off the oil and went to work for a couple of hours and now have almost no leak. The grease/oil mix seems to be the answer to the problem for at least the short term and hopefully a permanent solution. I will continue to monitor this solution and will let everyone know how it works in the end.

 

[Fishfiles]

OK so here's the story

I went out to weld the nut to the threaded insert and made a new discovery. The horizontal seal was now sitting loose on the shaft by the pulley. I have no idea how or why that happened, but know it wasn't like that that the last time I looked at it. What I did notice was the remaining oil was now dropping down on the main drive belt and leaking down on top of the gas tank. This made a bad situation take a turn for the worst. So the first thing I tried was to remove the pulley to get the seal out and do a replacement. I cleaned the exposed shaft and loosed the two set screws. I used the gear assembly to place a pry bar on each side of to try and pry off the pulley. Well no way was that pulley going to move, even with two three foot bars for levers. After carefully thought I said I will try to get the seal back into the housing to see if it was a tight fit or not. The seal was a job to install using two flat ended bars, it was not loose at all once I finally got it installed.... don't know why it came loose. Now I am off to to the allen head bolt to try and weld a nut to. I used an appropriate nut and welded all around inside of the allen bolt right out to the end of the nut. I then put a socket on the nut and turned it very easily. A little bit of effort and the nut separated from the allen bolt. The weld just didn't want to take to the allen bolt for whatever reason. Now it was time to make another decision of what to do. I decided I would drill right through the allen bolt and try a easy out. I used a lot of grease on the drill bit to prevent pieces of metal from the drilling to enter the gear assembly. I tried a easy out and had no luck and was nervous about breaking the easy out off in the hole n( knowing how my day was going so far). So the drilled hole gave me a hole to add fluid to and I figured that was the route to go. I found some 90/140 oil and thought I would give that a try. I used the nozzle on the container and installed the oil up to the full level. I found a piece that I could use for a plug and installed it and went for a test drive. After about 1 hour of use I noticed it had leaked a fair amount of oil and was thinking this isn't going to work. Now I decided that I was going to try the grease in the gear assembly as a final solution. I took the plug out and pumped a fair amount of grease into the assembly than plugged the hole and went for a test drive. The first thing I noticed was how much quieter it was. After about a hour of use I checked for leaks and found it had leaked some(clear oil, not grease oil mix), but not as much as before. I cleaned off the oil and went to work for a couple of hours and now have almost no leak. The grease/oil mix seems to be the answer to the problem for at least the short term and hopefully a permanent solution. I will continue to monitor this solution and will let everyone know how it works in the end.

A Mapp gas torch like the plumbers use is a good way to throw some heat on the pulley hub to get it to loosen up , not a lot of heat , you don't need to get it cherry red , I 'd say 20 second blast at a time then try it , still no turn then applyy more heat , same goes with the plug in the blower housing , when ever you heat something up to get it out , don't heat the thing your trying to get out , heat the surrounding area . also have found that after it is heated and say it doesn't turn , it is a good time to spray it with some penertrating oil such as Areo Kroil ( which is the best ) , while it is hot the Kroil will suck up into the threads , as far as welding it , what kind of rods and machine are you using , a DC machine with 7018 rods should work , 6011 on AC isn't the best for something like that , there is a special rod that is sold for just the purpose that you are doing , works very well , you put a nut over the plug and go thru the nut and contact the plug and fill as you go , I have used them on head bolts , you need a welding rod with a high tensil strength

 

[skidsteer.ca]

A Mapp gas torch like the plumbers use is a good way to throw some heat on the pulley hub to get it to loosen up , not a lot of heat , you don't need to get it cherry red , I 'd say 20 second blast at a time then try it , still no turn then applyy more heat , same goes with the plug in the blower housing , when ever you heat something up to get it out , don't heat the thing your trying to get out , heat the surrounding area . also have found that after it is heated and say it doesn't turn , it is a good time to spray it with some penertrating oil such as Areo Kroil ( which is the best ) , while it is hot the Kroil will suck up into the threads , as far as welding it , what kind of rods and machine are you using , a DC machine with 7018 rods should work , 6011 on AC isn't the best for something like that , there is a special rod that is sold for just the purpose that you are doing , works very well , you put a nut over the plug and go thru the nut and contact the plug and fill as you go , I have used them on head bolts , you need a welding rod with a high tensil strength

I have had the best luck using a mig welder for these situations, the tensile strenght is lower but you don't have all the slag pileing up where you want to weld.
Ken

 

[nobull1]

A Mapp gas torch like the plumbers use is a good way to throw some heat on the pulley hub to get it to loosen up , not a lot of heat , you don't need to get it cherry red , I 'd say 20 second blast at a time then try it , still no turn then applyy more heat , same goes with the plug in the blower housing , when ever you heat something up to get it out , don't heat the thing your trying to get out , heat the surrounding area . also have found that after it is heated and say it doesn't turn , it is a good time to spray it with some penertrating oil such as Areo Kroil ( which is the best ) , while it is hot the Kroil will suck up into the threads , as far as welding it , what kind of rods and machine are you using , a DC machine with 7018 rods should work , 6011 on AC isn't the best for something like that , there is a special rod that is sold for just the purpose that you are doing , works very well , you put a nut over the plug and go thru the nut and contact the plug and fill as you go , I have used them on head bolts , you need a welding rod with a high tensil strength

Fishfiles
I was using my mig to weld the nut to the plug. The plug didn't think too much of the mig for strength. I could have used my dc stick with a 7018, but figured the hole through the center of the plug would work just as well. I also was nervous of too much heat around the gear assembly and cooking something, so I left my oxy/acet torch in the cart. This was also the reason I didn't pursue heating the pulley. My luck as it has been lately I probably would destroyed the seal and still had the pulley on the shaft.
Now a update on the grease in the gear assembly. I probably have about 6-7 hours on the assembly since installing the grease. The oil/grease leaking has slowed down a lot, to the point of being acceptable. The assembly does have a slight noise, but I know it is better than it had been, and maybe they all have some noise once then get a bunch of hours on them. For the time being it seems to be working fine and I am happy. The problem with these type of projects is maybe it will last forever or maybe it will go boom tomorrow. My thought is, it should work and my problem should be gone. One issue though is how well will it work in -20 weather on initial startup. The oil although thick will move a lot better when cold than the grease, especially around the bearings, summertime "shouldn't"be a issue. I will post from time to time to update the status for others that might want to try it.

 

[Fishfiles]

Fishfiles
I was using my mig to weld the nut to the plug. The plug didn't think too much of the mig for strength. I could have used my dc stick with a 7018, but figured the hole through the center of the plug would work just as well. I also was nervous of too much heat around the gear assembly and cooking something, so I left my oxy/acet torch in the cart. This was also the reason I didn't pursue heating the pulley. My luck as it has been lately I probably would destroyed the seal and still had the pulley on the shaft.
Now a update on the grease in the gear assembly. I probably have about 6-7 hours on the assembly since installing the grease. The oil/grease leaking has slowed down a lot, to the point of being acceptable. The assembly does have a slight noise, but I know it is better than it had been, and maybe they all have some noise once then get a bunch of hours on them. For the time being it seems to be working fine and I am happy. The problem with these type of projects is maybe it will last forever or maybe it will go boom tomorrow. My thought is, it should work and my problem should be gone. One issue though is how well will it work in -20 weather on initial startup. The oil although thick will move a lot better when cold than the grease, especially around the bearings, summertime "shouldn't"be a issue. I will post from time to time to update the status for others that might want to try it.

Ya , you talking to the wrong one about -20 degrees as I don't think it ever got below +25 in about 50 years of me being here ----------but I am sure someone knows of the best grease to use in extreme cold , I would suggest adding some Lucus hub oil to the grease and make a mix , the Lucus oil is a traveling , clinging oil and will make a soup which should stay in the box -------on a similar note , while on the platforms in the Gulf we used hydraulic starters on the diesels in the cranes and the manufacturer use to tell us to add some diesel to the hydraulic oil tank of the starter system to thin it out in the winter as the oil wouldn't flow well when cold and starting was rough

 

[Tazza]

Ya , you talking to the wrong one about -20 degrees as I don't think it ever got below +25 in about 50 years of me being here ----------but I am sure someone knows of the best grease to use in extreme cold , I would suggest adding some Lucus hub oil to the grease and make a mix , the Lucus oil is a traveling , clinging oil and will make a soup which should stay in the box -------on a similar note , while on the platforms in the Gulf we used hydraulic starters on the diesels in the cranes and the manufacturer use to tell us to add some diesel to the hydraulic oil tank of the starter system to thin it out in the winter as the oil wouldn't flow well when cold and starting was rough

If it was me, i'd put a nice dob of weld and get that puppy out, or worse case drill it out. Then pull the gearbox down and replace the seals and bearings. You then know its in top shape. I seriously doubt you could get enough heat on the bolt with a stick or mig welder to do any damage to the cast housing.....
As long as you get it to a point that you are happy with great! I see no reason why grease can't be used. I know it is thicker so it will cause more friction and heat but as long as it lubricates the seals and bearings its better than nothing. You will need to watch the grease you use as i have heard users in here that used normal grease and lifting and tilting you hear a god afwull sound from when the grease has frozen. You don't want it to do that in a gear box and be like spinning chunks of ice around the gears!.
Glad its working now at least!

 

[nobull1]

If it was me, i'd put a nice dob of weld and get that puppy out, or worse case drill it out. Then pull the gearbox down and replace the seals and bearings. You then know its in top shape. I seriously doubt you could get enough heat on the bolt with a stick or mig welder to do any damage to the cast housing.....
As long as you get it to a point that you are happy with great! I see no reason why grease can't be used. I know it is thicker so it will cause more friction and heat but as long as it lubricates the seals and bearings its better than nothing. You will need to watch the grease you use as i have heard users in here that used normal grease and lifting and tilting you hear a god afwull sound from when the grease has frozen. You don't want it to do that in a gear box and be like spinning chunks of ice around the gears!.
Glad its working now at least!

I had/have a problem with grease lubricating bearings. The chain of events had me first using 90/140 oil until it started leaking out. Then I added some moly wheel bearing grease with the hope that it would somewhat mix with the 90/140 and make a thicker cocktail, but not being as thick as grease alone. So far it seems to be working but time will tell.

 

[nobull1]

I had/have a problem with grease lubricating bearings. The chain of events had me first using 90/140 oil until it started leaking out. Then I added some moly wheel bearing grease with the hope that it would somewhat mix with the 90/140 and make a thicker cocktail, but not being as thick as grease alone. So far it seems to be working but time will tell.

Just about a year ago I got a deal on a gear assembly for a very reasonable price. I was just waiting until I got the time or the other one went out. I used it all winter of 2008 and except for a few real cold morning startups it had minimal noise. By the Spring of 2008 I figured I would change it just in case. It wasn't too bad of a job and now the noise is non-existent. If I had a bad leak that wouldn't stop leaking, again, I wouldn't think twice about using grease. If it wasn't for using it in Canada with some below freezing temperatures I probably would consider it a permanent fix, which it might have been anyways.