Engine Oil vs Hydraulic Oil

[cocoabill]

I put synthetic engine oil in my loader, Costco SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Synthetic Diesel oil. Loader seams to be OK but it's a bit sluggish. I did this because worried about fire potential with Hydraulic oil. I am thinking about going back to the recommended SAE 10W20CD I was looking at using AW32 Hydraulic fluid for this. Question is did I already mess things up by switching to motor oil and is there anything special I need to do to switch back?

This is the manuals full spec on recommended Oil

SAE 10W20CD; Taxaco TDH; Mobil
Fluid 423; Chevron Tractor Hydraulic
Fluid; G Automatic Fluids meeting
Caterpillar TO-2 or Allison C3 standards

Thanks
Bill

 

[mrbb]

I'm no expert, but YES you could have possibly caused some issue's
the oil you added is most likely much thinner and a such , not designed for your machines system(not to mention any additives it has)

just draining will NOT remove all of it either,, the only way to remove it would be doing several changes and even then you will most likely NEVER get it all out!
NOW HOW Much damage could it have caused? that s a loaded question and if your already noticing issue's
I think you already have a clue!
IMO! there is a reason why OEM"S use the fluids they do! its what they found worked best for things!


if I was you I would drain, refill with CORRECT OEM fluid, run a b it and repeat, and HOPE for the best!
good luck!

 

[foton]

I do not know where you are but aw-46 might be the thing to use in a warmer climate, aw -32 is good in cold climate use. both of these fluids are available in a synthetic formula.$$$$$$$

 

[Fabricator]

I did this because worried about fire potential with Hydraulic oil.

You do realize that synthetic oils are still petroleum based and are still flammable, right?

 

[Mustang Guy]

Where in the world are you operating that the auto ignition point of hydraulic oil would be a concern? Are you operating inside the wildfire lines? Anything you use in a hydraulic system, except for water, is going to have a flash point well over 400°F at atmospheric pressure. If you're operating in hot/cold extremes you should be using a multi-grade hydraulic oil (ISO AW 32/46/68). If you're constantly operating in sub-zero environments, there are cryogenic hydraulic oils for that purpose. It's scary observing people thinking they have more knowledge than lubrication engineers that have built careers in the industry. Just do what the book says, it's that simple.

 

[cocoabill]

Thanks for all your replies, I drained the motor oil and started the flushing process. I understand it's going to take a bit of work to get it all out. As far as fire potential, guess I listened to the wrong advice live and learn. I only have maybe 15 minutes run time with no real load. So hopefully no real damage.

Thanks again
Bill

 

[Fabricator]

Really, the difference in flash point between synthetic motor oil and hydraulic fluid is about the same. The range for synthetic motor oil is within the range for hydraulic fluid.

The synthetic oil flash point varies between 440-degrees Fahrenheit for standard brands, while premium brands can range between 450 and 500-degrees Fahrenheit.

From here: https://rxmechanic.com/is-motor-oil-flammable/

Water-based hydraulic fluids will generally not ignite. However, petroleum-based hydraulic fluids can catch fire at 300-600 degrees Fahrenheit (148-315 Celsius) and auto-ignite at 500-750 degrees Fahrenheit (260-398 Celsius), which, technically, makes them combustible and not flammable.

From here: https://firefighterinsider.com/hydraulic-fluid-flammable/

Honestly, I had never heard of water-based hydraulic fluids, but I turned these up: https://www.acculube.com/houghton-water-based-hydraulic-fluids.html

However, I'd really want to make sure that it was compatible with my equipment before trying it. This article addresses some pros and cons: https://www.powermotiontech.com/hyd...098/water-hydraulics-benefits-and-limitations

Again, it would really depend on why you're looking to use "non-flammable" fluids - and then my first question then would be what your loader is running on? Gasoline, diesel, or propane is going to have a much lower flash point than either motor oil or hydraulic fluid. Unless you have a specific reason for needing a non-flammable option, I'd say you're overthinking things.

 

[cocoabill]

Thanks, no specific reason for the flammability concerns other than the operator I talked to had his machine burn up. He then proceeded to tell me about someone he knew that got burned up. He then went on to tell me that's why he was switching to motor oil. I should have researched it before doing it, oh well. Live and learn.

 

[foton]

well let me say this if you are concerned about the chance of fire , right off hand I can think of three things that cause these to happen , leaking fuel lines , leaking exaust in engine bay and electrical problems if you keep these issues taken care of you should not have issues. I am sure there are others too.

 

[mrbb]

the issue with using wrong fluids isn;t about HOW Long you ran things or pressures you built with them
it can simply be the make up of the fluid, being thinner , getting past seals causing leaks or detergents eating them, or causing pressure issues in pumps and so on!
if you have auxiliary lines for attachments be sure to drain them as well as they won' drain from just draining the system tank!
that's the problem when you MIX fluids, you never really get it all out as it sits in so many places that don't drain
IMO< it tends top be best to stick with what the OEM recommends,
as they spend a lot of money paying folks to find the best set ups

 

[dfb]

well let me say this if you are concerned about the chance of fire , right off hand I can think of three things that cause these to happen , leaking fuel lines , leaking exaust in engine bay and electrical problems if you keep these issues taken care of you should not have issues. I am sure there are others too.

I would also add about keeping the machine clean. It helps to identify any leaks early and debris collecting on the machine from becoming oil soaked.

When I got my machine, it had lots of oil leaks and the chassis and engine compartment were FULL of oil soaked bark mulch from the previous owner who operated it til it stopped and then would only do the bare minimum to fix it. Had this machine ever caught fire, it would still be burning.When things are clean, it is nice to keep them that way.

 

[Fabricator]

Well, as noted above, motor oil has about the same flash point as hydraulic oil, so you (and he) traded one flammable liquid for another flammable liquid - and potential created issues in the process with a fluid that didn't meet the manufacturer's recommendations.

As the others have said, maintenance is more important in preventing fires than using alternate fluids. Keeping a fire extinguisher handy would be another recommendation.

 

[MX727]

I don't think I'd be to concerned. Many machines specify motor oil in the hydraulic system. You didn't like the way your machine performed with motor oil and you quickly changed it. The percentage of remaining motor oil will be negligible after the second oil change due to the mixing of the oils when you run it.

After your first change back to hydraulic fluid, did you notice a better response level?

As to fires, cleanliness is probably more important, particularly with dry materials such as grasses and leaves that will begin to smolder and then can ignite the oils and greases.

 

[Mazzsr]

Where in the world are you operating that the auto ignition point of hydraulic oil would be a concern? Are you operating inside the wildfire lines? Anything you use in a hydraulic system, except for water, is going to have a flash point well over 400°F at atmospheric pressure. If you're operating in hot/cold extremes you should be using a multi-grade hydraulic oil (ISO AW 32/46/68). If you're constantly operating in sub-zero environments, there are cryogenic hydraulic oils for that purpose. It's scary observing people thinking they have more knowledge than lubrication engineers that have built careers in the industry. Just do what the book says, it's that simple.

The CNH factory told me that synthetic oil is fine, and local CNH shop recommends it for Wisconsin winter use.

 

[Mustang Guy]

The CNH factory told me that synthetic oil is fine, and local CNH shop recommends it for Wisconsin winter use.

I assume CNH means Canadian New Holland?
Of course, synthetic oil is fine in all weather environments. It's the ISO rating (weight / viscosity index) that's important. What are you using?

 

[foton]

cnh = case new holland I think fiat owns them all plus more now.

 

[Mazzsr]

I assume CNH means Canadian New Holland?
Of course, synthetic oil is fine in all weather environments. It's the ISO rating (weight / viscosity index) that's important. What are you using?

Case New Holland.
CNH full synthetic is what factory and dealer reccomended

 

[foton]

I would stay away from synthetic if you already have leaks as they will most likely increase in volume, no leaks yeah go for it.

 

[mrbb]

I would stay away from synthetic if you already have leaks as they will most likely increase in volume, no leaks yeah go for it.

I agree, and this SYN VS Dino oil, I think you also have to consider the age of the machine
on older stuff, I would honestly stick to using the dino oil's and what OEM's suggested, its what they were designed around

on more modern machines. or just newer, I think using SYN is the way to go, has more pro's than con's

but when you have OLD stuff, that thinner flowing fluids, can again get past seals and possibly play havoc on other things, and not worth the added costs of using the SYN oils IMO

 

[MX727]

I assume CNH means Canadian New Holland?
Of course, synthetic oil is fine in all weather environments. It's the ISO rating (weight / viscosity index) that's important. What are you using?