Bought an M-610 Just Need a Little Help

[alchemysa]

When you get around to fixing that rear axle seal you will need to loosen the lower drive chain. (You might get the axle out with a tight chain but you will never get it back in). You may think it would be easier to just remove the chain... and you would probably be right... but the chain has no removable links. The chain can only be removed with a chain breaker! I spent ages looking for the removable link before discovering it hasn't got one. I dunno why, but thats how it is.
6brnorma is of course correct about the seals. If you can get 'genuine' at a fair price then its usually a good investment. I forgot about the 'kits'. $55 for 2 seals and a sleeve is pretty fair. The rear axles have 2 seals on the outside of the outer bearing, so all that oil is actually getting past 2 seals. (There are no seals on the inner bearing because that bearing is completely covered by a dust cap).

Re-reading my previous post I may have given the impression you need to break the chain (with a chain breaker). Just to clarify... You don't need to break the chain at all. You just need to loosen it. The chain breaker comment was just meant to be a comment in passing.

 

[Kellen]

Re-reading my previous post I may have given the impression you need to break the chain (with a chain breaker). Just to clarify... You don't need to break the chain at all. You just need to loosen it. The chain breaker comment was just meant to be a comment in passing.

Went down to my local Bobcat dealer this morning in Boise. I was able to order up the axle bearing kit for $59 as well as an air filter. I asked about getting the 3" wrench needed for the clutch figuring it would be good to have around but apparently they stopped production of those in 2011. So pipe wrench it is. I may just make my own tool so I don't mar up the caps. Looking forward to digging in and getting to know this machine better.

 

[Kellen]

Went down to my local Bobcat dealer this morning in Boise. I was able to order up the axle bearing kit for $59 as well as an air filter. I asked about getting the 3" wrench needed for the clutch figuring it would be good to have around but apparently they stopped production of those in 2011. So pipe wrench it is. I may just make my own tool so I don't mar up the caps. Looking forward to digging in and getting to know this machine better.

One more thing to mention. The service manuals are obviously invaluable however there's nothing like seeing a good instructional video. Since there aren't many to be found, I'm thinking about making a video of all the service and maintenance jobs I do to this machine. Won't help me any but hopefully others will be able to pick something up from my trials and errors.

 

[gearbox]

One more thing to mention. The service manuals are obviously invaluable however there's nothing like seeing a good instructional video. Since there aren't many to be found, I'm thinking about making a video of all the service and maintenance jobs I do to this machine. Won't help me any but hopefully others will be able to pick something up from my trials and errors.

Bobcat has real nice parts blow ups . ask and the parts guy can print it for you . I have a clip board full of them .

 

[alchemysa]

Bobcat has real nice parts blow ups . ask and the parts guy can print it for you . I have a clip board full of them .

Copy and paste this into your browser. The two top folders have just about everything you need including parts diagrams...
http://ardiehl.de/Bobcat/

 

[alchemysa]

Copy and paste this into your browser. The two top folders have just about everything you need including parts diagrams...
http://ardiehl.de/Bobcat/

And heres the full Wisconsin VH4D engine manual and parts manual.
https://www.m-and-d.com/pdfs/Wisconsin/vh4d.pdf
http://www.wincogen.com/files/downloads/winco_engine_maintenance/wisc_vh4d_repair_manual.pdf

 

[Kellen]

And heres the full Wisconsin VH4D engine manual and parts manual.
https://www.m-and-d.com/pdfs/Wisconsin/vh4d.pdf
http://www.wincogen.com/files/downloads/winco_engine_maintenance/wisc_vh4d_repair_manual.pdf

Got home today and gave her a degreaser bath. Turned out pretty good.



After I rolled it back in the shop, I wanted to attempt a clutch adjustment. I hadn't gone out to get a pipe wrench but I did have some 1/4" plate sitting around so I got out the band saw and made a simple little 3" wrench.

Started with the left side and the reverse adjustment went fine but the castle nut on the forward clutch is seized on there and I'm not sure how I'm going to get that off.
Went around to the other side to discover that neither nut had a cotter pin in it! I started making the adjustment, but there was so much play in the lever that I decided to dive in deeper to check out the splines on the lever and on the shaft. Found that the splines on the shaft that goes through to the clutch are just fine but the splines on the lever are really worn. I turned it around and because it was in better shape on the side furthest away from the clutch but I'm still not super happy with the amount of slop in the lever. Any fixes for this or do I need to find new levers?
While I was in there I pulled the right side clutch plates and everything looks fine. No wear on the teeth of any sprockets and the chains are in good shape.
I will need to replace the cork gasket for the side cover. Are folks buying that or is it something you're making?
Anyway, I'm feeling good about the whole process. Just need to sort out those parts. While I have the side cover off, I figure I should probably start the process of removing that rear axle to get ready to replace the seals.

 

[Kellen]

Got home today and gave her a degreaser bath. Turned out pretty good.



After I rolled it back in the shop, I wanted to attempt a clutch adjustment. I hadn't gone out to get a pipe wrench but I did have some 1/4" plate sitting around so I got out the band saw and made a simple little 3" wrench.

Started with the left side and the reverse adjustment went fine but the castle nut on the forward clutch is seized on there and I'm not sure how I'm going to get that off.
Went around to the other side to discover that neither nut had a cotter pin in it! I started making the adjustment, but there was so much play in the lever that I decided to dive in deeper to check out the splines on the lever and on the shaft. Found that the splines on the shaft that goes through to the clutch are just fine but the splines on the lever are really worn. I turned it around and because it was in better shape on the side furthest away from the clutch but I'm still not super happy with the amount of slop in the lever. Any fixes for this or do I need to find new levers?
While I was in there I pulled the right side clutch plates and everything looks fine. No wear on the teeth of any sprockets and the chains are in good shape.
I will need to replace the cork gasket for the side cover. Are folks buying that or is it something you're making?
Anyway, I'm feeling good about the whole process. Just need to sort out those parts. While I have the side cover off, I figure I should probably start the process of removing that rear axle to get ready to replace the seals.

Well I hate paying dealer prices, but I do like that Bobcat still supports these machines.
I called up the dealer this morning and ordered
2 x Lever 6502635
2 x Shaft 6504707
1 x O-Rings 25K40028
2 x Brake Discs 6649871
2 x Side Cover Gaskets 6502337
I didn't ask the price, just ordered them. The last parts lasted almost 40 years so I can't complain about them wearing out. If I have to put a bit of money into this to make it reliable, then so be it.

 

[Kellen]

Well I hate paying dealer prices, but I do like that Bobcat still supports these machines.
I called up the dealer this morning and ordered
2 x Lever 6502635
2 x Shaft 6504707
1 x O-Rings 25K40028
2 x Brake Discs 6649871
2 x Side Cover Gaskets 6502337
I didn't ask the price, just ordered them. The last parts lasted almost 40 years so I can't complain about them wearing out. If I have to put a bit of money into this to make it reliable, then so be it.

I forgot to mention that in order to prevent lateral slop in the levers, I may fabricate a bronze washer/bushing to fit on the shaft and keep the lever from moving side to side. Will see if it works. Will only need about a 3/32" spacer to achieve this I think.

 

[alchemysa]

Well I hate paying dealer prices, but I do like that Bobcat still supports these machines.
I called up the dealer this morning and ordered
2 x Lever 6502635
2 x Shaft 6504707
1 x O-Rings 25K40028
2 x Brake Discs 6649871
2 x Side Cover Gaskets 6502337
I didn't ask the price, just ordered them. The last parts lasted almost 40 years so I can't complain about them wearing out. If I have to put a bit of money into this to make it reliable, then so be it.

"I didn't ask the price, just ordered them."
I couldn't afford to do that over here. Local dealer quoted $120 each for the axle seal kits. (I had already made my own anyway). Quote for the side gasket sets is $60 per side. Not sure if I'm going to make my own or try and get them from US.
6brnorma... Do you know a US Bobcat parts supplier that will post to friend of mine in North Carolina who can forward them to me?

 

[gearbox]

"I didn't ask the price, just ordered them."
I couldn't afford to do that over here. Local dealer quoted $120 each for the axle seal kits. (I had already made my own anyway). Quote for the side gasket sets is $60 per side. Not sure if I'm going to make my own or try and get them from US.
6brnorma... Do you know a US Bobcat parts supplier that will post to friend of mine in North Carolina who can forward them to me?

Now that is a sweet machine after a bath it is a clean sweet machine . none of mine look near that good .

 

[6brnorma]

Now that is a sweet machine after a bath it is a clean sweet machine . none of mine look near that good .

Alchemy ..... yes....most of them will. I'm working out of state right now.....give me a week and I'd be happy to help you. Those prices are horrible.... I think I paid something like $10.00 for the last gasket I bought. That's crazy!

 

[alchemysa]

Alchemy ..... yes....most of them will. I'm working out of state right now.....give me a week and I'd be happy to help you. Those prices are horrible.... I think I paid something like $10.00 for the last gasket I bought. That's crazy!

6brnorma said "Alchemy ..... yes....most of them will. I'm working out of state right now.....give me a week and I'd be happy to help you. Those prices are horrible.... I think I paid something like $10.00 for the last gasket I bought. That's crazy!"
Thanks. Theres no rush. It will be a while before the side covers go back on again. Anyway, earlier today, I emailed a Bobcat dealer in North Carolina (Triangle Equipment) and asked if they can get the side cover gaskets and, if so, how much. My friend could probably even pick them up if the price is fair. I'll let you know what I hear.

 

[Kellen]

6brnorma said "Alchemy ..... yes....most of them will. I'm working out of state right now.....give me a week and I'd be happy to help you. Those prices are horrible.... I think I paid something like $10.00 for the last gasket I bought. That's crazy!"
Thanks. Theres no rush. It will be a while before the side covers go back on again. Anyway, earlier today, I emailed a Bobcat dealer in North Carolina (Triangle Equipment) and asked if they can get the side cover gaskets and, if so, how much. My friend could probably even pick them up if the price is fair. I'll let you know what I hear.

So I'm still waiting for my parts to come in. In the meantime, I headed out to the shop to get the seized nut off the left side forward drive clutch shaft. I was able to get it off eventually! Yay!
While I was inside the machine, looking around, I noticed that there wasn't a belt on the alternator! I figured that a while back when it went out, rather than replacing it, they just removed the belt. In addition, the lower bracket was rubbing on the lower pulley so I'm going to have to change that for sure.
So now I'm trying to get some info on putting an alternator on. I know there are 1 wire alternators and others that have built in regulators, but what seems to be the issue is that I don't know what kind of RPM I'll be putting to the alternator.
Have you guys replaced yours with more modern units? If so, what did you use?
As always, thanks!

 

[6brnorma]

So I'm still waiting for my parts to come in. In the meantime, I headed out to the shop to get the seized nut off the left side forward drive clutch shaft. I was able to get it off eventually! Yay!
While I was inside the machine, looking around, I noticed that there wasn't a belt on the alternator! I figured that a while back when it went out, rather than replacing it, they just removed the belt. In addition, the lower bracket was rubbing on the lower pulley so I'm going to have to change that for sure.
So now I'm trying to get some info on putting an alternator on. I know there are 1 wire alternators and others that have built in regulators, but what seems to be the issue is that I don't know what kind of RPM I'll be putting to the alternator.
Have you guys replaced yours with more modern units? If so, what did you use?
As always, thanks!

I fly home tomorrow and can give a better response then. One wire is the only way to go IMHO. Let's see what everyone else does in the mean time.

 

[Kellen]

I fly home tomorrow and can give a better response then. One wire is the only way to go IMHO. Let's see what everyone else does in the mean time.

I look forward to seeing everyone's responses.
I like the idea of the 1 wire alternator. The 3 wire does not seem difficult to wire up. It's just a matter of figuring out where the stock wires on the bobcat go. I also like the idea of being able to use the dummy light and a voltmeter which I wouldn't be able to do with the 1 wire. On the other hand, do I really need those things? probably not. Would love to hear other solutions though.

 

[Kellen]

I look forward to seeing everyone's responses.
I like the idea of the 1 wire alternator. The 3 wire does not seem difficult to wire up. It's just a matter of figuring out where the stock wires on the bobcat go. I also like the idea of being able to use the dummy light and a voltmeter which I wouldn't be able to do with the 1 wire. On the other hand, do I really need those things? probably not. Would love to hear other solutions though.

So I went ahead and bought a 3 wire alternator because I didn't want to worry about getting the alternator up to a specific speed to engage it and start the charging. I know how the alternator is supposed to be hooked up in general but I'm trying to put it in my machine with minimal hacking
Here's the diagram I am trying to work off of.

There are 3/4 attachment points to my new alternator. There's the hot line which needs to make it's way to the battery. From the picture, I can't tell if I can hook it up the red wire on the bottom or the or the orange wire that in turn connects to the battery via the white wire. As far as a ground, that's simple enough. The number 1 and 2 pins on my alternator are what's confusing me. I know I can simply jump my number 2 pin to the hot terminal on the alternator. The number 1 pin needs to run to the key on terminal on the ignition to energize the alternator. I can't tell from the picture if that would be the J2 lead to the key or the purple lead.

 

[Kellen]

So I went ahead and bought a 3 wire alternator because I didn't want to worry about getting the alternator up to a specific speed to engage it and start the charging. I know how the alternator is supposed to be hooked up in general but I'm trying to put it in my machine with minimal hacking
Here's the diagram I am trying to work off of.

There are 3/4 attachment points to my new alternator. There's the hot line which needs to make it's way to the battery. From the picture, I can't tell if I can hook it up the red wire on the bottom or the or the orange wire that in turn connects to the battery via the white wire. As far as a ground, that's simple enough. The number 1 and 2 pins on my alternator are what's confusing me. I know I can simply jump my number 2 pin to the hot terminal on the alternator. The number 1 pin needs to run to the key on terminal on the ignition to energize the alternator. I can't tell from the picture if that would be the J2 lead to the key or the purple lead.

So I got my new 3 wire alternator all hooked up today and thought I would share if others are interested in doing the same thing.
As far as mounting it, it will bolt to the stock brackets. I had to make a little extension piece for the bottom hole so the brace doesn't hit the fan. Once it was mounted, I noticed that the pulley was about 1/4" from being aligned with the bottom pulley. I simply spaced the alternator pulley out another 1/4" and it took care of that problem.
After removing your old alternator, you will still have a red and green wire dangling around. I did not use the red wire. I wanted to add a ALT light up front so I used the green wire for that. At the control panel, I wired in a light to the green wire and then connected the other side of the light to the ign post on the switch.
There are three point on the new alternator you have to deal with. There are two blades labeled 1 and 2. 1 goes to your ALT light and is used to energize the alternator when you turn the machine on. Once the alternator is producing energy, your ALT light should shut off.
The 2 blade should be hot all the time so I simply jumped it to the hot post on the back of the alternator.
The large post is what will be pushing electricity to your system/battery. For this I used a piece of 10ga wire to run to the starter and attached it to the same post on the starter that your battery cable goes to.
All in all it is a real simple process with very little hacking. Take a look at the diagram below to see it drawn out.

 

[Kellen]

So I got my new 3 wire alternator all hooked up today and thought I would share if others are interested in doing the same thing.
As far as mounting it, it will bolt to the stock brackets. I had to make a little extension piece for the bottom hole so the brace doesn't hit the fan. Once it was mounted, I noticed that the pulley was about 1/4" from being aligned with the bottom pulley. I simply spaced the alternator pulley out another 1/4" and it took care of that problem.
After removing your old alternator, you will still have a red and green wire dangling around. I did not use the red wire. I wanted to add a ALT light up front so I used the green wire for that. At the control panel, I wired in a light to the green wire and then connected the other side of the light to the ign post on the switch.
There are three point on the new alternator you have to deal with. There are two blades labeled 1 and 2. 1 goes to your ALT light and is used to energize the alternator when you turn the machine on. Once the alternator is producing energy, your ALT light should shut off.
The 2 blade should be hot all the time so I simply jumped it to the hot post on the back of the alternator.
The large post is what will be pushing electricity to your system/battery. For this I used a piece of 10ga wire to run to the starter and attached it to the same post on the starter that your battery cable goes to.
All in all it is a real simple process with very little hacking. Take a look at the diagram below to see it drawn out.

I started the process of removing the rear axle tonight. It was tough but not unmanageable. I have a big bearing puller but I only have the bottom portion that goes underneath the bearing. I used it like that when I had a press but I got rid of the press years ago. I guess my only option now is to pick up another or somehow make a top screw pressing thing for it. Too late tonight to figure it out.
I managed to remove the bearing races, but man I have now idea how to install the inner rear race when the time comes. It's already so tight in there and to be able to push or hit that rear race in seems impossible. Up for some ideas if you have them.

 

[alchemysa]

I started the process of removing the rear axle tonight. It was tough but not unmanageable. I have a big bearing puller but I only have the bottom portion that goes underneath the bearing. I used it like that when I had a press but I got rid of the press years ago. I guess my only option now is to pick up another or somehow make a top screw pressing thing for it. Too late tonight to figure it out.
I managed to remove the bearing races, but man I have now idea how to install the inner rear race when the time comes. It's already so tight in there and to be able to push or hit that rear race in seems impossible. Up for some ideas if you have them.

I never removed any of the races. I didnt see any need for that as they were not damaged.
Its not clear if you have the outer bearing off or not. If you just have one bearing to remove maybe you could just take it to a local mechanic who has a press. Its a one minute job if you already have that bearing puller collar attached.
I was doing all 4 axles so I bought a cheap old screw press. And I love it.
The axle/outer seals/outer bearing/outer hub assembly needs to be done before its inserted back into the frame. The book shows the bearing being reinstalled with a mallet and a piece of pipe. I dont really like that idea but I guess its do-able.
I had no engine in mine so I had plenty of room. I guess to reinstall the inner race you will need to need to remove the inner hub then reinstall it after fitting the race. The inner bearing will just go on with the pressure of the castle nut.
.