Bobcat vs. conventional tractor.

[Robanybody]

A few months back, I sold my trusty little 763 to a friend. I had purchased a 46Hp Kubota and thought I was done with Bobcats, but I was wrong.
Yesterday I went and hauled back a 2002 863 with A Deutz 76 Hp engine. I could tell there was a problem with the rack and I'm betting that's why it won't start.
I'm not worried about losing money, it's worth more in parts than I paid. So I'm back at it with the skid steer repairs.
I find that several of my tasks are better served by a skiddy. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Just when I thought I was out, they drag me back in again. Apologies to Don Corleone.

 

[reaperman]

That engine also has a timing belt that needs to be replaced around 1000 hrs if I remember correctly.

 

[Robanybody]

That engine also has a timing belt that needs to be replaced around 1000 hrs if I remember correctly.

That is in my plans because the unit is well past that and I don't know if it's ever been done. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Gearclash]

Not a chance in the world I would ever rely solely on a tractor with a loader on it. I have a 145 hp tractor with loader and I avoid using it in favor a skid steer every time. Next step is to find an articulated wheel loader.

 

[hoardac]

Yes I bought a new bobcat tractor and was trying to sell my 553 and decided against it after a few months. there are somethings a tractor just cannot do well.

 

[Jeffro]

That engine also has a timing belt that needs to be replaced around 1000 hrs if I remember correctly.

My manual and dealer said 3000 hrs. Just brought a 2004 S250 with one that's how I know. Mine had 4176 on it when I installed a new one.

 

[Dave1234]

Not a chance in the world I would ever rely solely on a tractor with a loader on it. I have a 145 hp tractor with loader and I avoid using it in favor a skid steer every time. Next step is to find an articulated wheel loader.

I'd be interested to hear what the Bobcat does better at--I am new to this. Thank you.

 

[Gearclash]

I'd be interested to hear what the Bobcat does better at--I am new to this. Thank you.

For starters, skid steer loaders are built for the job. Tractors are an adaptation to the job no matter what the mfr claims.

Can't see the attachment or the load worth a crap with a tractor and loader.

Skid steer is far better suited for tight spaces.

Skid steer usually has faster arm and bucket cycle times.

Tractor will have better traction.

Tractor is safer to enter/exit with a load on the loader.

Tractor in most instances will have faster travel speed.

Tractor is more versatile.

Once you get to bigger tractors, the correct comparison is a wheel loader.

Any loader is infinitely better than no loader.

 

[Gearclash]

Also of very high value to me is the very high wheel torq and incredibly precise "creep" wheel control that hy-stat provides, (as opposed to a clutch or converter).

I would argue the converter point. Really annoys me that many wheel loaders are going to hydrostatic drives vs the converters of previous generations. Yea the old torque converters were kinda miserable because they were too "loose" but more recent designs really got it right.

 

[Dave1234]

For starters, skid steer loaders are built for the job. Tractors are an adaptation to the job no matter what the mfr claims.

Can't see the attachment or the load worth a crap with a tractor and loader.

Skid steer is far better suited for tight spaces.

Skid steer usually has faster arm and bucket cycle times.

Tractor will have better traction.

Tractor is safer to enter/exit with a load on the loader.

Tractor in most instances will have faster travel speed.

Tractor is more versatile.

Once you get to bigger tractors, the correct comparison is a wheel loader.

Any loader is infinitely better than no loader.

Thanks to all you for enlightening me!

 

[Gearclash]

I think it's just the new gen of baby loaders that's doing that isn't it?

Volvo L50 size machines have been hydro since at least the D series which dates back to the 90s, Deere 444 size are hydro for a while, CAT, not sure the model, but whatever size is approximately equal to the Volvo L60 is hydro. These are all conventional frame machines, not compact. They must work as some have a lot of hours on them, but if the controls go on the fritz, not cool. Expensive or obsolete. And the CAT my brother demoed had terrible finesse.

Lot of full size dozers are hydro even.

Hydro used to be better for feel and control but the trend to servo, then fly-by-wire has ruined that. I will stay away from the computerized BS as long as possible.

 

[Robanybody]

I'm in agreement that the Skidder is better for closed in areas. It turns tighter and the driving controls make it easier to position and avoid obstacles. The tractor in its conventional role is usually lighter and it doesn't tear up the soil as much with its steering action. My tractor is only 46 Hp while the 863 is 76Hp with the Deutz. So the Skidder has a better lifting capacity than a tractor mounted loader.
I thought i could do without the Skidder, but there are things that it is uniquely qualified to perform. I had the 763 for just shy of 20 years. I didn't really understand how much I did with it.
The Skidder is also much better with placing the forks in the pallet or whatever you're doing with forks.
As for clutched transmissions opposed to HST style, the clutch has its drawbacks. I'm used to having a clutch and I'm patient. I'd hate to split another tractor apart to deal with a torque converter again. They're very similar to industrial forklifts, and generally require substantial equipment to repair when they go wonky.
Of course, if you misuse the clutch or ride the thing all the time, you could end up splitting the tractor just to do the throwout bearing. Nothing is bulletproof.

 

[Atilathehun99]

Before I ever had one, I heard many that did say..."If you own one, you can never not own one."

After I bought my first, I found out exactly what they meant.

 

[Guner51]

The one think I don't like about a skid loader is that if your working alone and have the bucket half-way up you can't get out of it very easy.

 

[Robanybody]

The one think I don't like about a skid loader is that if your working alone and have the bucket half-way up you can't get out of it very easy.

Well, you probably don't want to be doing that anyway. It just isn't safe. If the unit stalls or runs out of fuel. I think they're required to have a manual lowering valve. On my Bobcats, they've always been next to the seat. Just twist and pull and the arms come down.
If you're talking about lifting something and need to deal with a sling or something, an assisting pair of hands is best.
I've never seen one lower its arms by itself, but I have heard of fatalities caused that way. The lift cylinders don't have holding valves, so if the barrel end hose leaks or bursts, the piston can retract freely. Since they're both on the same valve they will lower together.

 

[Gearclash]

I don't have a loader yet, but am keeping an eye out for an older machine that's not completely worn out. Right now there's a Bobcat 2410 mini-loader for $18, a Cat 904b mini-loader for $40, and a '76 920 Cat for $19. The 2410 Bobcat is too small. I can do as much (or more) with my vintage 720. The 904 Cat is probably hy-stat ?! It's out of my price range any way. The 920 would be OK, (the smaller 910 would be even better), but very few of either here in Alaska, and the few that do pop up every once in a while are all pipeline era machines with a ton of hours and worn out center joints and loader arm joints. I'm patient, there's no hurry. Something may come along. Definitely will NOT buy a loader that is hy-stat though.

Definitely try before you buy if at all possible. Loaders are like women. What is great for one guy is fingernails on chalkboard for the next.

I have a baling customer that tried a CAT mini loader (908?) and sent it down the road fairly soon as being underpowered. He traded it for a Hyundai 730 or 740, a small full size loader.

As far as I know all the compact loaders are hydrostatic drive.

My target size would be in the 20-22,000 lb machine weight. I've driven the L90E and F Volvos and they get a bit ponderous as they are pretty heavy for their size.

 

[Robanybody]

You might consider a Genie or JLG 19ft. 5K reach fork. There are all sorts of buckets and other attachments. They're the same machine offered by two different brands. Terex had an identical machine and they are all pretty useful. The JLG unit is called a G19-5. FWIW.

 

[Gearclash]

No straight frame machines for me, unless it is a skid steer. Even 4 wheel steer can't hold a candle to an articulated machine for maneuverability.

 

[hoardac]

I have seen one come down on its own and a bucket fall off from a broken pin. Was all the lessons I needed to see not to do that.

 

[laurencen]

You might consider a Genie or JLG 19ft. 5K reach fork. There are all sorts of buckets and other attachments. They're the same machine offered by two different brands. Terex had an identical machine and they are all pretty useful. The JLG unit is called a G19-5. FWIW.

the only thing I can say regarding the lifts are they recommend them for ground engagement, of the couple I played with JCB was rock solid digging the other brand was totally fragile, had little digging power and loose joints everywhere