Bobcat 843, any advice to a new owner?

[Tazza]

Once a ether baby, always a ether baby. Guys that is the worst thing for these little engines, it will take them out in a heartbeat. If your having a problem find the problem, don't solve it with ether, because you are going to pay.

ooh, how does ether kill the engine? i know they aren't designed to run in the stuff but just to get it to fire then the diesel will take over with the added heat.....
I do agree, they *should* start and run on their own, but if the compression is a bit low and if ether is all that can get them to start you really have only 1 other option... a re-build.
I'm really not sure if these have glow plugs either, if they do, that will most likley be the problem, as its hard to start but once running it runs great.

 

[goodtech]

ooh, how does ether kill the engine? i know they aren't designed to run in the stuff but just to get it to fire then the diesel will take over with the added heat.....
I do agree, they *should* start and run on their own, but if the compression is a bit low and if ether is all that can get them to start you really have only 1 other option... a re-build.
I'm really not sure if these have glow plugs either, if they do, that will most likley be the problem, as its hard to start but once running it runs great.

ether does not have enough lubricants to lubricate your cyclinder walls, so it pretty much taking out your rings in your engine. So then that happens, after you use ether is that the engine cannot make enough compression on its own to heat up the cyclinders to make the diesel fire so then you have to use ether again to get it started it is a visous cycle and pretty soon you loose compression in these small little engines and usually they are damaged enough where they cannot be rebuilt. Everybody says its okay to use it here and there, but in these small little engines it will kill them. I have replaced alot of ether babys in bobcats and the owners did not know that ether will kill them that fast, so throw that can away!

 

[StuZ]

ether does not have enough lubricants to lubricate your cyclinder walls, so it pretty much taking out your rings in your engine. So then that happens, after you use ether is that the engine cannot make enough compression on its own to heat up the cyclinders to make the diesel fire so then you have to use ether again to get it started it is a visous cycle and pretty soon you loose compression in these small little engines and usually they are damaged enough where they cannot be rebuilt. Everybody says its okay to use it here and there, but in these small little engines it will kill them. I have replaced alot of ether babys in bobcats and the owners did not know that ether will kill them that fast, so throw that can away!

The only way to use ether in an engine is through a nozzle in the intake manifold, wired so it can only inject the ether when the engine is turning over, and is then spread thoughout the whole engine, not just 1 or 2 cylinders. If you don't have ether injection, at least have the engine turning over before/when you are spraying it in the intake system. The smaller an engine is, the more ether will damage it. I have seen people spray 3 and 4 cans of ether in a train engine to get it started.

 

[Tazza]

The only way to use ether in an engine is through a nozzle in the intake manifold, wired so it can only inject the ether when the engine is turning over, and is then spread thoughout the whole engine, not just 1 or 2 cylinders. If you don't have ether injection, at least have the engine turning over before/when you are spraying it in the intake system. The smaller an engine is, the more ether will damage it. I have seen people spray 3 and 4 cans of ether in a train engine to get it started.

3 or 4 cans... thats just mad.

I have never used ether on a diesel engine nor a 2 stroke and i know it would rapidly kill a 2 stroke engine by lack of lubrication. Actually i lie!, i did use it once, it made a HORRIBLE clanging sound when it fired up it was most disturbing, then i found the excess fuel button on the injector pump, after that starting has been a breeze.

I do use it on small petrol engines when i get cranky at the fact they refuse to work after ripping my arm out of its socket. I give it a quick squirt in the air cleaner or in through the spark plug hole if its being a real swine. This is just to get it going then after that i can adjust the carby so it doesn't need it again.

As for lubrication, i thought it got all its lubrication for the cylinder walls from the crank case oil not the fuel, i know that running a diesel on kerosene will quickly kill its injector pump and injectors as it is abrasive un-like diesel fuel.

 

[goodtech]

3 or 4 cans... thats just mad.

I have never used ether on a diesel engine nor a 2 stroke and i know it would rapidly kill a 2 stroke engine by lack of lubrication. Actually i lie!, i did use it once, it made a HORRIBLE clanging sound when it fired up it was most disturbing, then i found the excess fuel button on the injector pump, after that starting has been a breeze.

I do use it on small petrol engines when i get cranky at the fact they refuse to work after ripping my arm out of its socket. I give it a quick squirt in the air cleaner or in through the spark plug hole if its being a real swine. This is just to get it going then after that i can adjust the carby so it doesn't need it again.

As for lubrication, i thought it got all its lubrication for the cylinder walls from the crank case oil not the fuel, i know that running a diesel on kerosene will quickly kill its injector pump and injectors as it is abrasive un-like diesel fuel.

Diesel does lubricate the upper cyclinder walls, the only reason ether works so good is that is has a higher cetane rating usually about 86 and above, where diesel only has a 35 to 60 cetane rating depending on the distribtor. But diesel does have other chemicals in it to lubricate the upper part of the cyclinder wall. If you want to hear some noise take a kubota that is so worn out and try to fire it off with starting fluid. They can make some real scary knocks

 

[ajwgator]

Diesel does lubricate the upper cyclinder walls, the only reason ether works so good is that is has a higher cetane rating usually about 86 and above, where diesel only has a 35 to 60 cetane rating depending on the distribtor. But diesel does have other chemicals in it to lubricate the upper part of the cyclinder wall. If you want to hear some noise take a kubota that is so worn out and try to fire it off with starting fluid. They can make some real scary knocks

Well since I started this thread I felt that an update is needed at this point. Thanks for everyone's input and is all valuable. As far as the preheat question, yes my 843 has glow plugs and found out that the previoius owner had replaced the ignition switch. The one he installed was just a generic switch with only off, run, & start position. I went to my dealer and bought the proper switch and now have my preheat position. In the process of changing the switch, I've run into a number of wiring issues and thanks to the manuals I am able to get them straightened out. One of them has to do with the quick disconnects in the cab to the left of the seat. The ones you need to disconnect when you raise the cab up. One of the connectors has been smashed (distroyed) and the wires are just hanging. Previous owner sure didn't take care much. Anyway, does anyone know if the connectors can be obtained without buying the entire wiring harness? I don't want to just hook them up without a means to quickly disconnect them. Parts manual states that they are part of the wiring harness and not listed seperately. Anyone have any good ideas as to a work around? As far as the ether.... I agree it isn't good but as Tazza & Stuz say sometimes you just have no choice. When I did use it I would only put a small amount into the little rubber spout at the bottom of the air cleaner. I am hoping that now that I have my preheat back it will not be needed. I want to get the wiring issues all back to normal first and I will then report back on that. No doubt, ether has no lubrication but going through the air cleaner this way does not stop the deisel fuel that the injector pump is supplying to the injectors.

 

[Tazza]

Well since I started this thread I felt that an update is needed at this point. Thanks for everyone's input and is all valuable. As far as the preheat question, yes my 843 has glow plugs and found out that the previoius owner had replaced the ignition switch. The one he installed was just a generic switch with only off, run, & start position. I went to my dealer and bought the proper switch and now have my preheat position. In the process of changing the switch, I've run into a number of wiring issues and thanks to the manuals I am able to get them straightened out. One of them has to do with the quick disconnects in the cab to the left of the seat. The ones you need to disconnect when you raise the cab up. One of the connectors has been smashed (distroyed) and the wires are just hanging. Previous owner sure didn't take care much. Anyway, does anyone know if the connectors can be obtained without buying the entire wiring harness? I don't want to just hook them up without a means to quickly disconnect them. Parts manual states that they are part of the wiring harness and not listed seperately. Anyone have any good ideas as to a work around? As far as the ether.... I agree it isn't good but as Tazza & Stuz say sometimes you just have no choice. When I did use it I would only put a small amount into the little rubber spout at the bottom of the air cleaner. I am hoping that now that I have my preheat back it will not be needed. I want to get the wiring issues all back to normal first and I will then report back on that. No doubt, ether has no lubrication but going through the air cleaner this way does not stop the deisel fuel that the injector pump is supplying to the injectors.

You can buy male and female fittings that you can use to replace the smashed connector. Try an automotive place for them, you can get ones that have 8 or more fittings inside them. It wouldn't hurt to use 2 of these if needed, just put one one way, the other the other way so you can't plug them together the wrong way around. I will try to remember to take a pic of what i did on my 731 that had really bad connectors so i cut them off and replaced them.

 

[Tazza]

Well since I started this thread I felt that an update is needed at this point. Thanks for everyone's input and is all valuable. As far as the preheat question, yes my 843 has glow plugs and found out that the previoius owner had replaced the ignition switch. The one he installed was just a generic switch with only off, run, & start position. I went to my dealer and bought the proper switch and now have my preheat position. In the process of changing the switch, I've run into a number of wiring issues and thanks to the manuals I am able to get them straightened out. One of them has to do with the quick disconnects in the cab to the left of the seat. The ones you need to disconnect when you raise the cab up. One of the connectors has been smashed (distroyed) and the wires are just hanging. Previous owner sure didn't take care much. Anyway, does anyone know if the connectors can be obtained without buying the entire wiring harness? I don't want to just hook them up without a means to quickly disconnect them. Parts manual states that they are part of the wiring harness and not listed seperately. Anyone have any good ideas as to a work around? As far as the ether.... I agree it isn't good but as Tazza & Stuz say sometimes you just have no choice. When I did use it I would only put a small amount into the little rubber spout at the bottom of the air cleaner. I am hoping that now that I have my preheat back it will not be needed. I want to get the wiring issues all back to normal first and I will then report back on that. No doubt, ether has no lubrication but going through the air cleaner this way does not stop the deisel fuel that the injector pump is supplying to the injectors.

Try an automotive store, you can buy plugs that have 8 or so fittings inside, use 2 if needed, just make sure if you do use 2, have 1 male and 1 felamle on the same side so you have no way to plug the wrong plug into the wrong spot. Or you could buy 2 different adaptors. Here is a picture of what i did.
http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/bobcat/120_2096.JPG
I will have to fiddle to work out how to post pictures.....
I hope this helps.

 

[ajwgator]

Try an automotive store, you can buy plugs that have 8 or so fittings inside, use 2 if needed, just make sure if you do use 2, have 1 male and 1 felamle on the same side so you have no way to plug the wrong plug into the wrong spot. Or you could buy 2 different adaptors. Here is a picture of what i did.
http://users.tpg.com.au/tazza_/bobcat/120_2096.JPG
I will have to fiddle to work out how to post pictures.....
I hope this helps.

I saw that on your sight before I got this reply. That looks great and I will be out tomorrow trying to locate a set up like that. I tried a few places before like Autozone, but didn't have any luck. I just give it another more indepth effort. Buy the way, the links to your sight work just great too. Thanks, Jay W.

 

[Yenko]

Ajwgator, Dose your cat have a fixed back window or dose it hinge down? Mine has a plexeglass on a long factory aluminum hinge that pulls against the fixed seal. I think I will have a glass and a seal that will allow it to be installed in the seal if that is possibl, looks nicer. I ask because I know our 843's are older machines and I haven't seen anything like mine before. Jon

 

[ajwgator]

Ajwgator, Dose your cat have a fixed back window or dose it hinge down? Mine has a plexeglass on a long factory aluminum hinge that pulls against the fixed seal. I think I will have a glass and a seal that will allow it to be installed in the seal if that is possibl, looks nicer. I ask because I know our 843's are older machines and I haven't seen anything like mine before. Jon

Mine does not have any windows at all Yenko. There are not many 843 machines around here at all. This is my first time machine and just cutting my teeth on Bobcats. Glad to have you in the forum. Jay W.