863 F Series 1998 AUX HYD PWM box kicking out on right hand

[Joe Dickey]

Right now my question is how many amps should the Aux solenoids draw? I put 12 volt with a not to good amp meter and got 2 to 3 amps. Next question: I'm down to buying a PWM aux hyd control box $1070 plus tax and shipping. Bobcat online parts tells me after it's installed a bobcat mechanic has to program? calibrate? the box. This is an early machine and some one said it my not need $1000 to $1500 of programing? 3rd question I'm going to hot wire a 12 volt toggle switch to the 10 volt solenoids I have read that will burn them out, but I'm not engaging 100% duty, only just momentary to open and close the root rake. Any thoughts on this being OK. Some times I can go out and it will work for 20 sec to 3 min. By the way I started having trouble with the bucket tilt attachment yrs ago. Tilt right was getting aggressive and tilt left kept having to push the switch further the hard left to get it to work. When I unplug the solenoids a light tester shows good operation. This is part of what I've done so far. I know there are others out there with low hour machines that need parts due to things just getting old and frail but, It's only got 1800 hours on it They're still 85% life left. It kind of sucks that it's time to junk a machine because of lack of support. Right now I've spent at lease 40 hrs on google trying to find out why my aux hydraulics are giving me a fit. I've been unplugging, tracing, testing, checking switches. That when I activate the green lights with the button in the upper right panel they're good till I work the center toggle switch on the right handle then start flashing error. If I unplug the two solenoids the trigger switch for the continuous flow for the back hoe works fine. The left switch on the handle works fine all the time. The solenoids show 3.5 ohms which according to google info is good. The plugs show good voltage range when the center switch is toggled, but when I plug one or both in as soon as I move the variable toggle switch it just goes into error flashing. If I jump 12 volts directly to the solenoids it works good the clam shell bucket opens and closes fine. I'm scared to by pass with wires and a switch temporarily as they say the solenoids work on 8 volts (they're even marked 10 volts) and if 12 volts is used the solenoids will burn up $$$. WHY 8 VOLTS FOR ALL THE SWITCHES? If the solenoids are plugged in no switches work on the right handle. If I unplug the solenoids the trigger and left switch on the right handle work. I unplugged the 4 relays on the left side under the seat and nothing changed. I unplugged the harness going up the boom to the remote connection. I'm not getting a good seat switch light. I jumped up and down on the seat, no good. the switch on the bottom of the seat doesn't look good. According to google the seat light shouldn't have any affect on the aux hydraulics but, I'm not sure. They say it can not be by passed because it is a hall effect design and has to work except around this time period bobcat over rode and eliminated the seat switch and was told if I get a new BICs controller that it doesn't care about the seat switch and mine may already be that way but not sure where I'm at on that as things aren't working right now and I can't find out why. Update: I guess the traction over ride button on the left switch panel over rides the seat. There's one 12v wire coming from the BICs to the PWM box that when I put or? take away 12v kicks out the PWM box or raising the seat bar, as it should. I pulled the fuse on the BICs and the PWM doesn't care. Every plug in that I took apart looks nice and clean. I still have 500 to go. If you know of anyone that could help I'd appreciate it. The bobcat sits here and gets 5 hrs on it in 10 yrs. I have attachments and need to take it to the farm to do some work. It still has 30% tread on the original tires.(It had Loggering tracks on it it's whole life. Now the air is coming through the side wall on one tire, good for 2 weeks in the summer and 4 days in the winter. Next is the broken fuel pick up (it only runs on the 3/4 gal of fuel in the fill hose) then the timing belt is 22 yrs old and recommended changed at 5 yrs Starting to remind me of my dog who lost a leg, can't hear, only has one eye. His name is Lucky.

 

[Joe Dickey]

I did test the handle and PWM box according to the repair manual. The only major discrepancy I could find was at the box the Output to Aux Rod solenoid #18 and Output to Aux Base Solenoid #19 The only way to get any reading was to unplug the solenoids and reboot the box. Everything looked good voltage going up and down with the push of the variable switch on the right handle the and then started acting weird then was OK. If I plugged the solenoids in as soon as I moved the switch the green lights start flashing and Aux hyd quits working. Also over at the unplugged solenoid plugs seemed to be the same readings/the same wires

 

[Joe Dickey]

I did test the handle and PWM box according to the repair manual. The only major discrepancy I could find was at the box the Output to Aux Rod solenoid #18 and Output to Aux Base Solenoid #19 The only way to get any reading was to unplug the solenoids and reboot the box. Everything looked good voltage going up and down with the push of the variable switch on the right handle the and then started acting weird then was OK. If I plugged the solenoids in as soon as I moved the switch the green lights start flashing and Aux hyd quits working. Also over at the unplugged solenoid plugs seemed to be the same readings/the same wires

UPDATE..... I bought a new PWM box installed it and all is well $1200 for the box, labor free.

 

[Tazza]

UPDATE..... I bought a new PWM box installed it and all is well $1200 for the box, labor free.

Glad it's fixed, it's a shame it was the PWM box, they are all potted so we have no chance to repair them

 

[Joe Dickey]

Glad it's fixed, it's a shame it was the PWM box, they are all potted so we have no chance to repair them

After reading so many threads that a lot just went dead I felt that I should post that I got it fixed. But not with out a bumpy road. I had dealers tell me I would have to bring it in for expensive diagnosis and high shop rates that others have posted on forums that it's a crap shoot at your expense. I spent a lot of time reading forums and the repair manual testing and self diagnosing. I was going to by pass the box with a home made voltage reducer and toggle switch jury rigged to the handle but I have a stump grinder with electrical switching for different movements and other attachments. I was split between the handle $$$$$ and the box $$$$$$ the test to the handle were better than the box. The only way to test the box was to unplug the two main solenoids then reboot. For some reason with the solenoids hooked up it may work 2% of the time for 15 to 45 seconds then the box goes off line with flashing green lights then you get no readings testing the wires. I didn't like poking the wires to test as you know it's a place for hard to find corrosion to flourish but more luck than brains I did most of the poking on the box side of the connector so, with the new box most of the poked wires were replaced with the new box. Then I was told by shop managers and Bobcat 800# that the box had to be programed at the shop in the machine. Right now I can't haul it so more$$$$$$ Finally with some prodding I got the answer that my machine was old enough that it was plug and play. It works alright with the clam bucket, I'll have to wait till I hook up the stump grinder to know for sure. So far I've saved $1000 to $2000 not taking it to the "DOCTOR" When we started having trouble with the bucket tilt attachment (same function and clam bucket) about 200 hrs ago 12 years, (yeah it hasn't been used much.) The right handle thumb switch to the right kept getting more sensitive like on or off, and to the left over time I had to push harder and harder against the stop to get it to work. Back then the handle was $160 now it's $560 Yikes! Well past history points toward the handle but with the Simpson meter pointing towards the box. As you've already read it was the box. After reading these forums I'm just glad I don't have the BOSS option. I got a good shop manager to help with info. I wonder how many shops would have charged me to program the box?

 

[Tazza]

After reading so many threads that a lot just went dead I felt that I should post that I got it fixed. But not with out a bumpy road. I had dealers tell me I would have to bring it in for expensive diagnosis and high shop rates that others have posted on forums that it's a crap shoot at your expense. I spent a lot of time reading forums and the repair manual testing and self diagnosing. I was going to by pass the box with a home made voltage reducer and toggle switch jury rigged to the handle but I have a stump grinder with electrical switching for different movements and other attachments. I was split between the handle $$$$$ and the box $$$$$$ the test to the handle were better than the box. The only way to test the box was to unplug the two main solenoids then reboot. For some reason with the solenoids hooked up it may work 2% of the time for 15 to 45 seconds then the box goes off line with flashing green lights then you get no readings testing the wires. I didn't like poking the wires to test as you know it's a place for hard to find corrosion to flourish but more luck than brains I did most of the poking on the box side of the connector so, with the new box most of the poked wires were replaced with the new box. Then I was told by shop managers and Bobcat 800# that the box had to be programed at the shop in the machine. Right now I can't haul it so more$$$$$$ Finally with some prodding I got the answer that my machine was old enough that it was plug and play. It works alright with the clam bucket, I'll have to wait till I hook up the stump grinder to know for sure. So far I've saved $1000 to $2000 not taking it to the "DOCTOR" When we started having trouble with the bucket tilt attachment (same function and clam bucket) about 200 hrs ago 12 years, (yeah it hasn't been used much.) The right handle thumb switch to the right kept getting more sensitive like on or off, and to the left over time I had to push harder and harder against the stop to get it to work. Back then the handle was $160 now it's $560 Yikes! Well past history points toward the handle but with the Simpson meter pointing towards the box. As you've already read it was the box. After reading these forums I'm just glad I don't have the BOSS option. I got a good shop manager to help with info. I wonder how many shops would have charged me to program the box?

Sadly shop time sure is expensive, i bet they would have their procedure for testing, not just pull the old box, install a test box and see how it works.
The box programming, i have seen them offered on the internet, this listing did say they would program it for you, so i guess it's possible that their sold price is programmed, but you never do know.
I'm with you on the poking holes in insulation, it's a ood way to diagnose, but down the track, it is a possible starting point of corrosion.