751 peugeot engine starting problems again

[bluesky]

I have 2 751 Bobcat with peugeot engines . Both are very hard starting but with a shot of ether they both start up ok and start easy after the intial start up . Both have plenty of power and run very good . I did have a problem before with smoke on one but fixed that with a pcv valve that the Old machinist suggested which at this time I will thank you . YOu saved me some money on the purchase of that item. I know these are not the greatest engines but i did not do my research good enough to find this out. So I will have to live with them now. I know ether is not good for the engine and that is why I am trying to stay away . Even when it is warmout side they start hard which is telling me that it feel like its not getting the diesel fuel to the ejectors right away. Had Glow plugs checked and had replaced a couple Any help will be welcome before I have to send these machines to a shop and end up with a $2000 bill that I do not need. Just to leave you know that I spray the ether in the intake by taking the air cleaner off and spray a shot then hop in it to start it .

 

[SkidRoe]

Hey Bluesky,
As you no doubt know, ether is something that should only be used in desperation. We have all done it, and I cringe every time, even on gas engines.
Just thinking out loud, here is are a few of suggestions:
1. I don't know how many hours your machines have on them, but have you had the injectors checked out? A respectable diesel shop will generally check them for a modest fee (some times for free).
2. You said you checked the glow plugs. If they are the Bosch type, the only sure fire way of testing them is to take them out and connect them to the battery, using a short piece of heavy wire. The entire tip needs to glow red, not just the very end. Replace any that are not fully glowing.
3. If all else fails, do your machines have block heaters? Maybe you might want to plug them in for about half an hour before start up (assuming that you have power near by). I had a neighbour back on the farm that kept the Detroit Diesel in his old Ford Louisville tractor plugged in all summer. You can't hurt a diesel with heat.
My $0.02,
SR

 

[SkidRoe]

Hey Bluesky,
As you no doubt know, ether is something that should only be used in desperation. We have all done it, and I cringe every time, even on gas engines.
Just thinking out loud, here is are a few of suggestions:
1. I don't know how many hours your machines have on them, but have you had the injectors checked out? A respectable diesel shop will generally check them for a modest fee (some times for free).
2. You said you checked the glow plugs. If they are the Bosch type, the only sure fire way of testing them is to take them out and connect them to the battery, using a short piece of heavy wire. The entire tip needs to glow red, not just the very end. Replace any that are not fully glowing.
3. If all else fails, do your machines have block heaters? Maybe you might want to plug them in for about half an hour before start up (assuming that you have power near by). I had a neighbour back on the farm that kept the Detroit Diesel in his old Ford Louisville tractor plugged in all summer. You can't hurt a diesel with heat.
My $0.02,
SR

One other thing, have you checked the injector timing? I believe that these engines use a timing belt, and if the belt has stretched, it could throw out the timing.
Speaking of which, when was the last time the timing belts were done? You definitely do not want to let them go too long. I think that I have read that they should be changed about every 1000 hours or 5 years, which ever comes first.
Cheers,
SR

 

[bluesky]

One other thing, have you checked the injector timing? I believe that these engines use a timing belt, and if the belt has stretched, it could throw out the timing.
Speaking of which, when was the last time the timing belts were done? You definitely do not want to let them go too long. I think that I have read that they should be changed about every 1000 hours or 5 years, which ever comes first.
Cheers,
SR

thanks for your .02, I will check out the glow plugs again and I have never taken the ejectors out but will do this after the glow plugs. both machines have 3000 hours on them and probably never had the timing belt changed . I have a manual on changing the timing belt but that looks as clear as mud. I do not want to touch that until I know exactly what I am doing. I do know that starting fluid isn't good but when it has to run it has to run

 

[Tazza]

thanks for your .02, I will check out the glow plugs again and I have never taken the ejectors out but will do this after the glow plugs. both machines have 3000 hours on them and probably never had the timing belt changed . I have a manual on changing the timing belt but that looks as clear as mud. I do not want to touch that until I know exactly what I am doing. I do know that starting fluid isn't good but when it has to run it has to run

I found the starters to be a little lacking in torque to get them started.
The best i can recommend that you do is to use a jumper cable from the glow plug rail and connect it to your +ve battery terminal. Hold it there for 15-20 seconds, get someone in the cab to crank the engine. How does it start? The glow timers aren't the most reliable things, the relay gets dirty and doesn't always give the plugs enough power, if any power at all. Don't hold the power to the plugs too long, or they will burn out. OM makes a good poitn about removing them and see if they glow right to the tip.
Timing is set with lock pins. Flywheel to lock the crank, cam gear and injector pump. The timing belt is really very simple and if you have never done it, you should. Check or replace the water pump and idlers/tensioner too.
They are a great engine actually, just expensive for parts. They run very smooth and run well when going as you have noticed.

 

[bluesky]

I found the starters to be a little lacking in torque to get them started.
The best i can recommend that you do is to use a jumper cable from the glow plug rail and connect it to your +ve battery terminal. Hold it there for 15-20 seconds, get someone in the cab to crank the engine. How does it start? The glow timers aren't the most reliable things, the relay gets dirty and doesn't always give the plugs enough power, if any power at all. Don't hold the power to the plugs too long, or they will burn out. OM makes a good poitn about removing them and see if they glow right to the tip.
Timing is set with lock pins. Flywheel to lock the crank, cam gear and injector pump. The timing belt is really very simple and if you have never done it, you should. Check or replace the water pump and idlers/tensioner too.
They are a great engine actually, just expensive for parts. They run very smooth and run well when going as you have noticed.

I will try that with the Glow plugs and I will look in to it futher about the belt. Thanks for your time. So far the engines been running good but I keep reading bad things about them that makes me wonder what do I really have here.

 

[WebbCo]

I found the starters to be a little lacking in torque to get them started.
The best i can recommend that you do is to use a jumper cable from the glow plug rail and connect it to your +ve battery terminal. Hold it there for 15-20 seconds, get someone in the cab to crank the engine. How does it start? The glow timers aren't the most reliable things, the relay gets dirty and doesn't always give the plugs enough power, if any power at all. Don't hold the power to the plugs too long, or they will burn out. OM makes a good poitn about removing them and see if they glow right to the tip.
Timing is set with lock pins. Flywheel to lock the crank, cam gear and injector pump. The timing belt is really very simple and if you have never done it, you should. Check or replace the water pump and idlers/tensioner too.
They are a great engine actually, just expensive for parts. They run very smooth and run well when going as you have noticed.

Skidroe said it great. These engines need the timing belt done pretty often. Its the main cause of distruction, if it breaks, you will have plenty of damage. Camshaft breaking in 3 to 4 pcs! Currently many of the parts are on back order too. We do several of these everymonth.

 

[7LBSSMALLIE]

Skidroe said it great. These engines need the timing belt done pretty often. Its the main cause of distruction, if it breaks, you will have plenty of damage. Camshaft breaking in 3 to 4 pcs! Currently many of the parts are on back order too. We do several of these everymonth.

as long as glows are out run a compresion check this will aleast give you an idea of condition of rings and valves. once plugs out 20 mins of time well spent.

 

[bluesky]

as long as glows are out run a compresion check this will aleast give you an idea of condition of rings and valves. once plugs out 20 mins of time well spent.

I will give it a try on the compression test too Thanks

 

[Tazza]

I will give it a try on the compression test too Thanks

There are horror stories with just about every engine. If you keep it serviced, it should do around 6,000 hours.
Inspect the coolant lines, i know there are a lot of them, pain in the butt. Keep the oil changed and the timing belt done (i believe ir was every 1,000 hours) you should have a good life out of them.

 

[bluesky]

There are horror stories with just about every engine. If you keep it serviced, it should do around 6,000 hours.
Inspect the coolant lines, i know there are a lot of them, pain in the butt. Keep the oil changed and the timing belt done (i believe ir was every 1,000 hours) you should have a good life out of them.

Double thanks to all of you for helping me on this , If you guys where not so ugly I would give you a kiss. If any of you have so good info or pictures on changing the timing belt could you send it to me at [email protected] I would really appreciate it. Well got to go to my ful time job for 12 hours so I will be off line till then . Got to buy baby shoes. THANKS AGAIN

 

[Tazza]

Double thanks to all of you for helping me on this , If you guys where not so ugly I would give you a kiss. If any of you have so good info or pictures on changing the timing belt could you send it to me at [email protected] I would really appreciate it. Well got to go to my ful time job for 12 hours so I will be off line till then . Got to buy baby shoes. THANKS AGAIN

I'm sending you the engine section of the manual, its 12 meg, if it doesn't work let me know and i will compress it into smaller files.
Yeah, i'm glad i'm not 'pretty' enough

 

[bluesky]

I'm sending you the engine section of the manual, its 12 meg, if it doesn't work let me know and i will compress it into smaller files.
Yeah, i'm glad i'm not 'pretty' enough

Thanks Tazza I hope I can figure this out