731 duezt 511 not running

[Roham]

Hey guys. New to the forum. I live in Calgary Alberta and just purchased a bobcat for $4k. It's not running. We used the starter to get it on the trailer and off again at my house. It's a 1978 731 with the Diesel Duezt 511. So, we primed the pump all the way to the injector pump and then we loosened the injectors by the cylinders. We turned the engine over and nothing has come out. We have tried a few different ways/times to get it going. So we think the pump is shot. So today we pulled it. Is there any way to check if the pump is shot? I'm thinking I'll bring it over to Bobcat of Calgary Tomorrow. THanks in advance guys.

 

[Roham]

Oh ya. ANd the owner before me ran it dry on diesel last time it ran... And hasn't started since....

 

[Tazza]

Oh ya. ANd the owner before me ran it dry on diesel last time it ran... And hasn't started since....

Ok, find the bleed screw on the pump, loosen itup. The lift pump is on the right, you will need to pump it till you get clean fuel coming out without bubbles. Close the bleed screw, give it some throttle and press the button on the injector pump, it should click and drop down. Crank the engine and it should fire up.
My 731 had an air cooled Deutz, hopefully yours is the same engine model....

 

[Tazza]

Ok, find the bleed screw on the pump, loosen itup. The lift pump is on the right, you will need to pump it till you get clean fuel coming out without bubbles. Close the bleed screw, give it some throttle and press the button on the injector pump, it should click and drop down. Crank the engine and it should fire up.
My 731 had an air cooled Deutz, hopefully yours is the same engine model....

if its primed, ensure you gave it throttle! as to shut this machine down you pull back on the throttle to cut the fuel. Hopefully its that simple?
If not, remove the high pressure lines, give it full throttle and crank it, see if you get fuel coming from the nozzles on the pump. I can't see you loosing BOTH elements on the pump at the same time....
Do keep us informed.

 

[Roham]

Ok, find the bleed screw on the pump, loosen itup. The lift pump is on the right, you will need to pump it till you get clean fuel coming out without bubbles. Close the bleed screw, give it some throttle and press the button on the injector pump, it should click and drop down. Crank the engine and it should fire up.
My 731 had an air cooled Deutz, hopefully yours is the same engine model....

What button on the injector pump?? I took a picture of the fuel solenoid that is in front of the pump. If you notice it isnt plugged in. Is that the button you're talking about? I did everything else you said and no luck. There doesn't seem to be any fluid in the high pressure lines.

 

[Roham]

What button on the injector pump?? I took a picture of the fuel solenoid that is in front of the pump. If you notice it isnt plugged in. Is that the button you're talking about? I did everything else you said and no luck. There doesn't seem to be any fluid in the high pressure lines.

We removed the high pressure lines, gave it 3/4 throttle and cranked till the cows came home... No luck. That's why we pulled the pump Here is a picture of the pump with the fuel solenoid. You can see the high pressure lines coming out the top left of the pic and the low pressure line on the right. http://www.flickr.com/photos/20547943@N07/3388335849/

 

[Tazza]

We removed the high pressure lines, gave it 3/4 throttle and cranked till the cows came home... No luck. That's why we pulled the pump Here is a picture of the pump with the fuel solenoid. You can see the high pressure lines coming out the top left of the pic and the low pressure line on the right. http://www.flickr.com/photos/20547943@N07/3388335849/

Thats the button i was talking about.
Are you sure its primed? are you getting fuel coming out the bleed screw? I'm wondering of your lift pump may be bad not giving any pressure? can youinstall a hand primer in the line and prime it again then when cranking hold pressure on the primer bulb. This will give you more fuel pressure and you can see if its the lift pump or not.

 

[Roham]

Thats the button i was talking about.
Are you sure its primed? are you getting fuel coming out the bleed screw? I'm wondering of your lift pump may be bad not giving any pressure? can youinstall a hand primer in the line and prime it again then when cranking hold pressure on the primer bulb. This will give you more fuel pressure and you can see if its the lift pump or not.

Ya we are pretty sure. The fluid was gushing out of the bleed screw when you pumped the manual lever. Where is the lift pump located on the engine?

 

[Roham]

Ya we are pretty sure. The fluid was gushing out of the bleed screw when you pumped the manual lever. Where is the lift pump located on the engine?

I found where the lift pump is. I'm gonna try to find a hand primer and get back to you tomorrow. Hey, i pulled the Bosch fuel injection pump. It doesn't look to have any gaskets so I'll pop it back into place tomorrow, and tighten her down and it should be good, right? And, by the way, thanks for all your help thus far!!!

 

[coreya3212]

I found where the lift pump is. I'm gonna try to find a hand primer and get back to you tomorrow. Hey, i pulled the Bosch fuel injection pump. It doesn't look to have any gaskets so I'll pop it back into place tomorrow, and tighten her down and it should be good, right? And, by the way, thanks for all your help thus far!!!

Welcome to the forum, just saying hello as I am from Calgary also. Tazza is one of the top shelf guys here so you are in great hands! Good luck at Bobcat of Calgary. The parts guys are pretty good there but sometimes they forget to order your stuff. Brian in service is very helpfull as well.

 

[Tazza]

Welcome to the forum, just saying hello as I am from Calgary also. Tazza is one of the top shelf guys here so you are in great hands! Good luck at Bobcat of Calgary. The parts guys are pretty good there but sometimes they forget to order your stuff. Brian in service is very helpfull as well.

Don't say that, i'll let it get to my head
I never removes the pump on mine so i'm not sure, you may need to use silicone or 515 master gasket to seal it. If it leaks a little engine oil you know how to fix the leak at least. I hope the hand primer does the trick.... Just ensure you have the throttle up as its how these engines shut down.

 

[Roham]

Don't say that, i'll let it get to my head
I never removes the pump on mine so i'm not sure, you may need to use silicone or 515 master gasket to seal it. If it leaks a little engine oil you know how to fix the leak at least. I hope the hand primer does the trick.... Just ensure you have the throttle up as its how these engines shut down.

I used the hand primer where the inline fuel filter was and I was able to get a little bit of fluid out of the high pressure lines on top of the engine, after I loosened off the fittings on the pump. How much pressure does the lift pump put out? And how much pressure does the injection pump put out? And how much fluid should I be expecting to come out of the high pressure lines? I've got the new lifter pump coming in tomorrow so I am gonna throw it in and get back to you guys.

 

[Tazza]

I used the hand primer where the inline fuel filter was and I was able to get a little bit of fluid out of the high pressure lines on top of the engine, after I loosened off the fittings on the pump. How much pressure does the lift pump put out? And how much pressure does the injection pump put out? And how much fluid should I be expecting to come out of the high pressure lines? I've got the new lifter pump coming in tomorrow so I am gonna throw it in and get back to you guys.

The lift pump will only produce about 5PSI or so, its not a great deal.
The high pressure lines will be putting out about 2,500PSI or there abouts. The easiest way to check for fuel delivery is to remove the lines, brush the bubble of fuel on the nozzle then crank. You will see a small rise in the fuel level, it only pushes a small amount of fuel out each cycle. Its not like like a jet of fuel will come out of it each injection cycle, its only a fraction of a ml.

 

[Roham]

The lift pump will only produce about 5PSI or so, its not a great deal.
The high pressure lines will be putting out about 2,500PSI or there abouts. The easiest way to check for fuel delivery is to remove the lines, brush the bubble of fuel on the nozzle then crank. You will see a small rise in the fuel level, it only pushes a small amount of fuel out each cycle. Its not like like a jet of fuel will come out of it each injection cycle, its only a fraction of a ml.

So, we had the injection pump rebuilt for $1000..... But first we replaced the $200 lift pump. Still not getting any fluid from the injectors. Did we reinstall the injection pump wrong? The last one was seized bad but the mechanic who rebuilt it said just drop it back in.... Is there something we're missing??

 

[Tazza]

So, we had the injection pump rebuilt for $1000..... But first we replaced the $200 lift pump. Still not getting any fluid from the injectors. Did we reinstall the injection pump wrong? The last one was seized bad but the mechanic who rebuilt it said just drop it back in.... Is there something we're missing??

I never removed the pump on mine, but he is rite. It should just drop in and be good to go. Did you get the injectors done too? wondering if they could be stuck too.... If you get fuel from the delivery nozzles and not from the injectors its possible, but if you aren't getting fuel from them its something else..... When you drop the pump in, there should be like a U that the rack will slot into. This moves from side to side to vary how much fuel goes through, was this lined up? I assume it has this setup, never seen how its actually done.

 

[Roham]

I never removed the pump on mine, but he is rite. It should just drop in and be good to go. Did you get the injectors done too? wondering if they could be stuck too.... If you get fuel from the delivery nozzles and not from the injectors its possible, but if you aren't getting fuel from them its something else..... When you drop the pump in, there should be like a U that the rack will slot into. This moves from side to side to vary how much fuel goes through, was this lined up? I assume it has this setup, never seen how its actually done.

Just an update. Got it running today. We talked to the guy that rebuilt the injector pump and he said maybe try talking out a couple of the shims. Maybe it's not getting enough lift. Sure enough, fired right up now. Thanks for everything guys.

 

[Tazza]

Just an update. Got it running today. We talked to the guy that rebuilt the injector pump and he said maybe try talking out a couple of the shims. Maybe it's not getting enough lift. Sure enough, fired right up now. Thanks for everything guys.

Thats odd, the shims adjust the injection timing..... Does it run and start well? if so, its all good.
Glad its alive again! shame it took so much time, money and effort to get it working but still cheaper than a new one.